You're Doing It Wrong

Claw Shrimp
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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

I finally got around to playing Chrono Cross, and about an hour in I had a nice discussion with the generic love interest and then I recruiting an obnoxious thief to join me. Wondering where I was supposed to go next, I checked an FAQ... and I found out that just about all of the decisions I'd made in those two events were wrong. No, it turns out that you can recruit that generic love interest... but only if you tell the thief to get lost. How the hell was I supposed to know that? I was all alone and I needed the help! Who in their right mind would turn down the FIRST ally you get in a game? More than that, I learned that those answers I gave in that conversation in hour 1 would directly effect whether or not that character got her final special ability, very late in the game. What kind of a dick move is that? I also found that I'd missed two hidden characters. Already.

It would only take me about 30-45 minutes to run through and "fix" the mistakes I made but I've had very little desire to do so. I've heard that Chrono Cross is a wonderful game but right now I'm pretty sure it's dicking with me.

Ever start playing a game only to realize you've done something - minor or major - wrong, and even if it'd be relatively quick and easy to fix you just feel kind of... deflated?

NOTE: Not a doodle bug.

Steam-XBox-PSN: Lobstermancer

Hero of Canton
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Botswana's picture
Location: Serenity Valley

First attempt at Oblivion I contracted vampirism but didn't realize it. Went to the trouble of figuring out how to get rid of it and realized the quest to cure myself would take longer than it would to just restart with a new character, which was a major bummer. I know some people liked the whole vampire angle but I literally caught it just after leaving the starter dungeon and it wasn't something I was ready to mess around with. Sadly, had I realized I was infected I could have done a much easier cure so long as I had taken care of it within the first day or so.

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Zelos's picture
Location: Sussex, UK

This is why you shouldn't read walkthroughs and FAQs unless you're completely stuck.

PSN: benruk | Steam: zelos

Very Small Tyrant
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Minarchist's picture
Location: Surrounded by songbooks

That's also why Chrono Trigger > Chrono Cross.

XBL Gamertag: Minarchist | Steam ID: Minarchist
I like the cut of your jib, Minarchist. — Podunk
well that's it. you just sent me off on a hunt for a delicious weiner. — Bullion Cube
My taste buds got a boner — Seth

MMMMAGGOTS!
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NSMike's picture
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

I picked up WoW again and have become addicted to raiding.

These kinds of problems show up the most for me in micro-management games and RPGs. I can't think of any specific examples at the moment. The micro-management ones are not so much bad game design though as they are a problem I have specifically, because I hate micro-management that doesn't offer a set-it-and-forget-it mode, because I won't set it but I'll still forget it.

TempestBlayze wrote:

Mike, you're like Francis in L4D. You hate everything.

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Yoreel's picture
Location: MN

Not as bad, but I have been working on getting all my characters in Lost Odyssee to learn every skill not knowing that I have to collect 99 stupid seeds scattered in pots and chests all over the land in order to get a accessory that give me a skill. Time wasted, and 4 achievements I will not be getting.

Xbox Live Gamertag - Yoreel

Very Small Tyrant
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Minarchist's picture
Location: Surrounded by songbooks

Yoreel wrote:
Not as bad, but I have been working on getting all my characters in Lost Odyssee to learn every skill not knowing that I have to collect 99 stupid seeds scattered in pots and chests all over the land in order to get a accessory that give me a skill. Time wasted, and 4 achievements I will not be getting.

I'm an explorer, so this came naturally for me, but I could see how it's frustrating; if you still want to, there's no point at which you can't complete this quest. The seeds from places like the Highlands of Wohl all show up in the auction house.

XBL Gamertag: Minarchist | Steam ID: Minarchist
I like the cut of your jib, Minarchist. — Podunk
well that's it. you just sent me off on a hunt for a delicious weiner. — Bullion Cube
My taste buds got a boner — Seth

Needs a Manual
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Yoreel's picture
Location: MN

Minarchist wrote:
Yoreel wrote:
Not as bad, but I have been working on getting all my characters in Lost Odyssee to learn every skill not knowing that I have to collect 99 stupid seeds scattered in pots and chests all over the land in order to get a accessory that give me a skill. Time wasted, and 4 achievements I will not be getting.

I'm an explorer, so this came naturally for me, but I could see how it's frustrating; if you still want to, there's no point at which you can't complete this quest. The seeds from places like the Highlands of Wohl all show up in the auction house.

Yeah, i know everything still will be available. What gets me is i know I'm going to end up with one seed sitting around. I will say that I have been on the last section of the game for 2 weeks, but keep finding other things to do everytime I turn the game on.

"Tonight I beat Lost Odyssey... or wait Keolon King! Lets fight him"

Xbox Live Gamertag - Yoreel

Spondee Camper
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wordsmythe's picture
Location: "Not if I had a hundred tongues, every one shouting a different language in a different key, could I do justice to her splendid chaos."

I play a role when I play RPGs, so it's not really a problem for me.

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Because, see, wordsmythe is a jerk!

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Finger of God
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Staats's picture
Location: Minnesota

Why is the decision "wrong"? Decisions made in the present influence the future in ways you cannot predict (without a FAQ, obviously) -- that seems about right.

Xbox Live: StaatsM

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Switchbreak's picture

Minarchist wrote:
That's also why Chrono Trigger > Chrono Cross.

Chrono Trigger does the same thing, if you want to play it without Crono dying. As I recall, you need to complete an arbitrary minigame BEFORE he dies, without being told that it will be necessary to the plot later, and then go finish a whole crazy sidequest to get him back.

Of course, that's operating under the flawed assumption that there's one correct path through the story. You can still win the game without doing all of that.

Like the time that precedes words, there are colors but no rules

Very Small Tyrant
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Minarchist's picture
Location: Surrounded by songbooks

Switchbreak wrote:
Minarchist wrote:
That's also why Chrono Trigger > Chrono Cross.

Chrono Trigger does the same thing, if you want to play it without Crono dying. As I recall, you need to complete an arbitrary minigame BEFORE he dies, without being told that it will be necessary to the plot later, and then go finish a whole crazy sidequest to get him back.

Of course, that's operating under the flawed assumption that there's one correct path through the story. You can still win the game without doing all of that.


Huh, I don't remember a minigame being necessary, but I'd probably done it already due to my OCD-ness. That was crazy, though, to get him back; but fun.

Yoreel wrote:
I will say that I have been on the last section of the game for 2 weeks, but keep finding other things to do everytime I turn the game on.

"Tonight I beat Lost Odyssey... or wait Keolon King! Lets fight him"


For me, I "finished" the game when I beat the Immortal One. Everything after that (final boss, etc.) was just gravy.

XBL Gamertag: Minarchist | Steam ID: Minarchist
I like the cut of your jib, Minarchist. — Podunk
well that's it. you just sent me off on a hunt for a delicious weiner. — Bullion Cube
My taste buds got a boner — Seth

Claw Shrimp
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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

Staats wrote:
Why is the decision "wrong"? Decisions made in the present influence the future in ways you cannot predict (without a FAQ, obviously) -- that seems about right.

Because I'd rather have the cute redhead than the obnoxious thief.

NOTE: Not a doodle bug.

Steam-XBox-PSN: Lobstermancer

See One, Frag One, Teach One
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Coldstream's picture
Location: Denver, CO

I knew a guy who started playing WoW on our recommendation. He was having a blast, and after we'd given him a few pointers on how to play, said he'd like to figure out the rest on his own. Skip a bit, and he's level 30 (and very quickly, which wasn't as easy back in the day). We party with him, and notice that he has some odd gear. Also, he's not really using many abilities. We ask him about the gear, and he says "it keeps breaking, so I get new stuff." Similarly, when asked about his play-style, he said "these are the powers I've had from the beginning!"

Upshot: he didn't know he could repair gear, upgrade his abilities or purchase new ones, and talent points were a closed door to him.

I can't imagine how annoying WoW must have been for him. I do know that after we set him straight, he was almost delirious with how much fun the game had suddenly become.

Jonman wrote:

Now that I think about it, I've got a rubber leg at home - maybe I'll try this out on the wife.

Setting Fire to Reason
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LilCodger's picture
Location: Bah!!!

Don't be too "completionist" about Chrono Cross. There are companions that are mutually exclusive. I don't remember needing uber companions or all the elite abilities to finish the game.

It's one of the few games I've played through multiple times. I think I was around four, and my wife went through it twice. Play how you want, but I wouldn't go for a walkthrough unless really stuck.

If you really want to see a certain ending, or take it on looking for "100%", but don't want to play multiple times, Chrono Cross will drive you clinically insane.

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From A Certain Point of View
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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Botswana wrote:
First attempt at Oblivion I contracted vampirism but didn't realize it. Went to the trouble of figuring out how to get rid of it and realized the quest to cure myself would take longer than it would to just restart with a new character, which was a major bummer. I know some people liked the whole vampire angle but I literally caught it just after leaving the starter dungeon and it wasn't something I was ready to mess around with. Sadly, had I realized I was infected I could have done a much easier cure so long as I had taken care of it within the first day or so.

I had this same problem come up but it was a bit worse. I was a lot further along in the game and I ended up accidentally selling one of the items you need to complete the quest and I couldn't remember who I sold it to. As it turns out, the item can be sold despite being critical to the quest. And since creating another one required more time than I had before the curse overtook me, I ended up using a console code to spawn the item I needed. I even tried playing as a full Vampire for a bit but it makes the game exceedingly difficult and slow. The whole vamparism idea was neat but it was frustrating that they didn't tell you when you'd caught it (it only happened some of the times a Vampire hit you) considering that you had limited time to cure it and it would completely change the game if you didn't cure it.

"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca

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Switchbreak's picture

The worst offenders in this arena are old adventure games. Remember the original Sam & Max, where you had to find the money in the mousehole way at the beginning of the game or you wouldn't have any later? Or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where the hardest puzzle in the game was the Babel Fish, and if you didn't figure it out in time you couldn't understand anyone for the whole rest of the game. Those were the truly sadistic ones.

Like the time that precedes words, there are colors but no rules

Executive
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The_Judge's picture
Location: Recalculating...

Does anyone remember the old Infocom "HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy" text adventure game?

(I consider this so old that this is not a spoiler.)
Near the start of the game there is a pile of junk mail on your doorstep as you leave the house. If you don't pick it up and keep it you can't finish the game. But you won't find that out until nearly half done the dang game. Of course, you have to restart because no one in their right mind makes a save point that close to the start anyway.

Similar grumbling with items in Sierra adventure games too.

Edit: Wow someone beat me to the Hitchhiker point as I was typing.

Not A Girl
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kuddles's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

wordsmythe wrote:
I play a role when I play RPGs, so it's not really a problem for me.

Yeah, some of these complaints sound weird to me. You're basically asking for an RPG to have every option open to you at every time, but then how on earth do you ever make your actions have any kind of consequence or meaning?

Judge_Digger wrote:
Similar grumbling with items in Sierra adventure games too.

Yeah, dead ends in adventure games were beyond terrible. Half the time they were intentional, too, not glitches. There was an uproar when LucasArts games came out, and all the veterans whined about how a lack of dead ends was evidence the genre was "dumbing down". I remember that time, and therefore always am skeptical when someone uses that phrase to complain about anything today.

Some CRPGs were like that too, where it was fully possible to be screwed hours into the game because apparently there was a skill, spell, or potion that was secretly "mandatory" at a certain point. You essentially had to read a guide on what were the "good" and "useless" parts of the skill tree before you started playing. I hated that crap.

I would think the first rule of PR is to ignore forum people, because they vacillate between crazy and liar. - Elysium

From A Certain Point of View
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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Switchbreak wrote:
The worst offenders in this arena are old adventure games. Remember the original Sam & Max, where you had to find the money in the mousehole way at the beginning of the game or you wouldn't have any later? Or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where the hardest puzzle in the game was the Babel Fish, and if you didn't figure it out in time you couldn't understand anyone for the whole rest of the game. Those were the truly sadistic ones.

I had a problem like this with King's Quest VI. There was an item you had to pick up early on in the game but you didn't need it until much later and eventually, you would reach a point where the original area that contained the item would close off to you, making you unable to proceed. This wouldn't have been so bad if you didn't learn this until you were about 85% complete. I never ended up finishing the game.

"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca

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DrJonez's picture
Location: Cleveland

I could replay Chrono Trigger a million times before I die. I own Chrono Cross and have yet to play more than an hour of it.

Steam, Live, AIM: DrJonezMD | My reviews: http://emajkut.blogspot.com/ | Twitter: http://twitter.com/emajkut

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Sonicator's picture
Location: Canberra, Australia

Gah, there was one of the Space Quest games where you started on a ship that was self-destructing, and unbeknownst to you had to get a set of coordinates from a computer that had nothing to do with your primary goal of getting off the ship before it blew up, and if you didn't get them you couldn't get past a bit of the game a couple of hours later. I threw my toys at that point and played something else.

Not that I'm still bitter about it.

*twitch*

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stauf7's picture
Location: Newfoundland

Sonicator wrote:
I threw my toys at that point and played something else.

Great line!

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Me Love You Long Time
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Vector's picture
Location: The Wet Coast

Part of the joy of Chrono Cross was taking different routes and seeing the different characters that end up with you. By the end it was 100% personal preference of who you wanted with Serge. Every character becomes powerful. Except Radish. He was terrible.

Fletcher wrote:

*Legion* wrote:
Fletcher wrote:
I couldn't agree more.

Do you want to, like, make out now or something?

No, actually now I just want to punch you. Alas, it was good while it lasted.

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Al's picture

There was some Police Quest game (3?) that would be rendered unfinishable if you didn't do something really, really arbitrary in the beginning of the game. Worse the game would be unfinishable because it wouldn't let you pull over someone so you wouldn't be able to take them to traffic court later. None of this had anything to do with the main quest.

Not that I'm still bitter or anything.

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PSN: AlexC099

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Grenn's picture
Location: Sitting uncomfortably close to your girlfriend

The very first time I played FFVII (on a rented PS1, so no memory card) I got to the very first Reno fight. He put the player in a pyramid. I didn't know that you had to hit the character to break it. That was maybe 3-4 hours of gameplay only to lose and have to start from the beginning. I got back to that point 4 times and died each time before I had to return the game and system. *Sigh* So young.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Mex wrote:
Why do you guys hate yourselves, just play on Easy, that's what I do anyway. Except on Rock Band but that's because I'm awesome at it

Oh Mex, that's like only hitting on the ugly girls.

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Kannon's picture
Location: Back in the land of Corn and Cows

Switchbreak wrote:

Chrono Trigger does the same thing, if you want to play it without Crono dying. As I recall, you need to complete an arbitrary minigame BEFORE he dies, without being told that it will be necessary to the plot later, and then go finish a whole crazy sidequest to get him back.

Which minigame? Out of the million or so times I've played, I've done minigames at the beginning once or twice. The only time Crono actually died was when I left him that way, to see how the ending shaped up.

Also: Seriously, that is one of the coolest optional quests _EVER_.

DrJonez wrote:
I could replay Chrono Trigger a million times before I die. I own Chrono Cross and have yet to play more than an hour of it.

Me too. But, it's largely because the combat system annoys the crap out of me. Ok, I love the combat system, but the single-use tile things are annoying and stupid. At least make it so that I can use the skills repeatedly!

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

St.Hillary wrote:
I will make anything you want if you do the dishes.

I have a friend who works in the field of "cellular duplication" I would love for you to meet.

Head Coach
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*Legion*'s picture
Location: California's beautiful central coast

Switchbreak wrote:
The worst offenders in this arena are old adventure games. Remember the original Sam & Max, where you had to find the money in the mousehole way at the beginning of the game or you wouldn't have any later? Or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where the hardest puzzle in the game was the Babel Fish, and if you didn't figure it out in time you couldn't understand anyone for the whole rest of the game. Those were the truly sadistic ones.

Does there exist anywhere an "avoid these game-ruining traps" FAQ for old adventure games like these?

There's a bunch - like all of the old Sierra games - which are on my "how did I never play these?" list. I'd like to play them, but I don't want to deal with dead ends. And obviously I don't want to just follow a full-blown walkthrough and not figure ANYTHING out. Just enough of a hand-hold to avoid the major trap scenarios.

Twitter: @legion

jonnypolite wrote:

Legion is right. Dammit.


Now that I have a netbook, chances are the above post was written while on the toilet.

Not Without Incident
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Quintin_Stone's picture
Location: Cary, NC

LobsterMobster wrote:
I finally got around to playing Chrono Cross

You're doing it wrong.

Couldn't stand that game. Ended up playing it straight from a walkthrough because of all the esoteric nonsense with NPCs and bindings and colors, then finally asked myself "Why bother?" So I quit.

Seriously, SquareSoftEnix, you and I are done professionally!

Certis wrote:

Quintin is both smart and attractive.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!

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Switchbreak's picture

Kannon wrote:

Which minigame? Out of the million or so times I've played, I've done minigames at the beginning once or twice. The only time Crono actually died was when I left him that way, to see how the ending shaped up.

Also: Seriously, that is one of the coolest optional quests _EVER_.

You have to get the clone of him from the game at the fair, so that when you go back you can replace him right before he dies. I'm almost certain I'm remembering this correctly.

Like the time that precedes words, there are colors but no rules

A Clone Smitten
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Clemenstation's picture
Location: TORONTO

DrJonez wrote:
I could replay Chrono Trigger a million times before I die. I own Chrono Cross and have yet to play more than an hour of it.

Ditto. Cross is a big heap of trash. Instead of characters it has a bunch of interchangeable stereotypes. "Oy mate, Ay'm a thiefer!!" Yeah? How 'bout it's time to shut the hell up and stop cashing in on Crono's good name.

Edit: Yep, winning the clone from that Tent is an essential part of Life2'ing Crono back into the game.

XboxLive: Clemenstation

"If all of those guys get into that tiny little tent, I am gonna lose it."