I'm getting back into PC gaming (PC build content!)...
For the first time in about seven years. I'm just not too into the multiplayer scene on the consoles, can't quite get used to the controllers, and have the disposable income to replace the Dell I got as a graduation gift in 2001.
So, here's my PC build thread. I want to build my next PC and I've never done so before. I've worked with hardware enough that I think I can pull it off, but there seem to be some nuances that I'm at risk to miss.
Below is a list I made at Newegg of a build I'd like. I trust GWJ's PC experts and aficionados, so take a look and let me know if something stands out as an odd choice or overkill with a more suitable (or affordable) alternative. I plan to use the PC primarily for gaming, streaming media to the PS3 and 360, general Internet/word processing stuff, and moderate graphics/layout editing. I don't plan on overclocking. Doesn't have to be a "future-proof" PC, but I'd like it to play current games and have options for upgrading the memory and video card, and stay within the $1000 - $1250 range (excluding the OS).
Also, I've got a few specific questions that I could use some help with:
1. Do I really need to replace the stock heatsink/fan on the CPU with something else, if I'm not planning to overclock?
2. One of the big things I'm getting hung up on is the motherboard. In many of the reviews for the one I selected, users said they had to flash the BIOS in order for their PC to function properly. I'm nervous about doing that. Seems kind of risky. I wanted the PCI-e 2.0 support, but from what I understand that's not required for a PCI-e 2.0 video card. Are there any alternatives that would help me avoid flashing the bios, even if they don't support PCI-e 2.0, or should I just expect it? I've thought about the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L and Abit IP35 Pro.
3. Does it seem like I have enough space to fit that monstrous video card?
Any feedback would be rad. Thanks in advance, guys.
(1) GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3L (link)
(1) Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz (link)
(1) EVGA 512-P3-N873-AR GeForce 9800 GTX+ (link)
(1) CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (link)
(1) Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (link)
(1) SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe (link)
(1) COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power RP-650-PCAR 650W (link)
(1) COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP (link)
(1) Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor (link)
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 (link)
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird



I have the Abit IP35 pro and love it. 2 of my friends use that boards also. I don't remember having to flash it or anything though. If I did it apprently wasn't a hard process because I don't remember having a difficult time with it.
I don't OC and have always used stock coolers for my cpu (Intel E6750) and never had a problem. I don't know if quad cores run much hotter than dual cores though.
My GPU (Evga 8800gts) did have a little overheating problems mostly because my case was cluttered and dirty. So it didn't have good airflow. I cleaned it, moved some cables, and installed a PCI exhaust fan ($10)and haven't had any troubles since.
I have never been let down by Corsair ram and I think I have the same monitor and I love it.
Looks like you got a pretty sweet rig there. Have fun setting it up. I always enjoyed researching and building my comps. I bet with that rig your FPS will skyrocket on Stan's
I wouldn't panic too much about flashing the BIOS. Most boards these days have built-in flashing routines, so you can boot straight into a flasher, and then load the file from a USB key. The BIOS flasher can tell whether or not the BIOS is meant for your motherboard, and will basically keep you from screwing anything up too badly. The only thing to fear is a power failure during the flashing process, which can be bad. Some boards have a dual-BIOS setup so that a bad flash can't wreck the board, but I tend to think a UPS is a good idea anyway. You only need enough power to hold the machine up for a couple of minutes, and pretty much any piece of junk will do that fine.
(I recommend an APC 1400 unit, new or used; you can get those for like $300 new now. They're really good, and will hold up most computer setups for like 15 or 20 minutes. I use mine constantly; just yesterday it kept me connected to a game of TF2 right through a 30-second power failure, and it would have comfortably lasted far longer.)
If you're buying the machine primarily for games, you may prefer a faster dual-core processor, instead of the slow quad. You can easily OC the quad to match the stock speeds of the duals, but you say you don't want to do that, and I don't particularly blame you. You can get duals at 3.1Ghz for about $190. If you're not going to OC, and you just want to game, that's both cheaper and faster for your purposes. You'll probably be able to add a quad later if it becomes an issue.
You might want to consider the ATI 4850 or 4870, depending on which fits into your budget. They're MUCH faster than the 9800s -- they're faster, generally, than even the new 260s and 280s, and they're really well-priced. ATIs are the cards to buy right now. Their drivers used to be very bad, but they've improved tremendously, and I think you'd be very happy with either. (one annoyance is that you have to install .NET on XP for the control panel to work, but given the otherwise sterling quality of the drivers, I forgive them.)
You probably wouldn't mind faster RAM, particularly if you go quadcore. Be aware that you should get RAM that will at least work at the stock 1.8 volts, because it can be impossible to get the board booted to crank the voltage up. Many performance RAM pieces require 2.1v to even boot, and voltage isn't part of the autodetect protocols. So, you have a shiny motherboard and shiny RAM, both of which will just love each other, but you have no way to boot the board to tell it to crank the voltage up. This is frustrating.
Solution: buy the cheapest stick of 1.8v you can find (generally about $10) as an insurance policy. If you don't use it, toss it in a drawer. If the machine won't boot with the performance RAM, use the cheapo stick to boot it, set the voltage and timings properly, and then power down and swap.
You might like the Samsung Spinpoint hard drives. They're fast and VERY quiet. This won't be a major difference, but the Spinpoints are very nice.
I don't know Cooler Master's quality for power supplies. I like PC Power and Cooling the best. This Silencer 500 is likely to be very good indeed. Corsair is also testing extremely well. Seasonic is very good in the 'super quiet but high quality' bracket. (don't know how much noise matters to you.) 650W is more than you'll probably need, but it does give you headroom. With a quad and a single video card, a 500 should be fine, and a PCPAC 500 like I linked will be way more than you need. (they use a single-rail design, so you always have all the power on all the lines.) Hell, a 430 would probably be okay, but 500 gives you some overhead.
I haven't used the Samsung DVDs. I've been using Pioneer drives for many years; it looks like the current version is the DVR-116. I love these drives to death. They're quiet and super reliable. But if you want Lightscribe, the cheapest Pioneer I see is $60, so I'd probably try the Samsung if that actually matters.
I don't have broad experience with cases, but I've been using Antec for quite awhile. I have a P182SE and I think it's the most fantastic thing ever for quiet computing. With tweaking, it's much quieter, sitting at my desk, than the server in the room across the hall. The Cooler Master may be fine. I'm just not familiar with it. Pay attention to other opinions.
Gonna keep this short. I have the IP35 pro like SAM and it is a very very good and stable board. Very overclockable. I would spend a little more and go with that.
Thanks for standin' still Wanker!
-XBox Gamertag: Tempest Blaze (Without the Y)
You should be fine with those parts. And it looks like you shouldn't run into any trouble with those fairly mainstream choices. Check the comments under the case to see if there are any troubles fitting large video cards. Bios flashing shouldn't be necessary, but if you see it alot in comments then figure out why they need to do it. Maybe it's for a just released cpu or something. I bought the EP35-DSL motherboard and didn't have to flash.
But I'm pretty much with Malor in that (personally) I would make a few of the changes he suggested.
Get a ATI 4850 instead of 9800+ gtx. Mainly because I think you can get similar performance at a decent savings. A few 4850s are $150ish on Newegg last time I checked.
Get a Dual-core instead of Quad for gaming. I just don't think many games out there and in the foreseeble future will make much use out of quad cores. For video encoding though they can help speed things up although still unless you're doing alot of encoding then the difference probably isn't that great. ***** (note: You can get an E2160 dual core Intel cpu for under $70 and overclock it to run like $200 cpus without changing the fan. I got mine up to 2.7ghz with a simple bios setting change and played Crysis all the way through with no problems. I couldn't hit 3ghz. Computer would reboot when I had it that fast. But some people can get it going that fast. YMMV as it depends a bit on the silicon you get.)
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 500W power supply. I just trust them more. You do pay a bit more and although I've never had trouble with my cheaper power supplies, both my parents had their cheapo Power Supplies blow on them during the last few years in computers I built for them.
Nothing I could add that others haven't.
Dual core instead of quad.
Buy an aftermarket cooler, it will help your OC a bunch. I like zalmans.
I'd stick with the 9800+ but I dislike ATI in general.
shihonage wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJI disliked ATI for a long time, but I ran an x1950 on my Mac for awhile before it melted. (Apple's fault, as far as I can tell, not ATI's.)
I thought it was excellent. And the image quality was superb, better than the 8800GTS that replaced it.
shihonage wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJWhile ATI's new cards are good, I don't like the fact that they run hotter and uses more power to the NV equivilent.
Also, I find that NV has much better 3rd party vendors like BFG, EVGA, XFX. LIfe time warranty, step-up (not for XFX) and good CSR are always good.
Finally, the new PhysX via gfx card thing make NV cards better value in my eyes. Couple years from now, your 9800GTX+ should still be useful as a physics accelerator.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Thanks for all the responses! I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for a fast Duo -- it seems more fitting for my purposes and I can take the 80 or 90 bucks I save and step up the motherboard to the Abit IP35 Pro and get the PC Power & Cooling PSU.
Regarding the video card, I just can't help but gravitate toward nVidia. I'm actually thinking about springing for a GTX 260; they're pricier than others but I'm a sucker for the shiny new stuff.
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
I use both Nvidia and ATI. I've always just gone with who has the best bang for the buck card. Both companies are good, but both make not so good products sometimes. I think with this latest iteration of cards the ball has bounced back in ATI's favor.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that since ATI has the better product this time around, it's important to throw some money their way. They're doing yeoman work on their drivers, and their image quality is excellent. I may do another build pretty soon, and I'll definitely pick one up if I do.
shihonage wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJI've always been an Nvidia person but really only because I do 3D in Maya for work. ATI cards have been notriously bad with 3d programs.
I'm glad your getting the ip35.
Thanks for standin' still Wanker!
-XBox Gamertag: Tempest Blaze (Without the Y)
Once you get the stuff, consider installing the 64-bit version of Vista, especially since you have 4 gigs of ram, unless you have a lot of old apps or some really old printer or something. It'll be far more stable and efficient for you.
Even if you are a big Nvidia fan, I would go for the 4850 if I were you, it's the same price for significantly better performance and it's going to be more likely to have driver improvements in the future since it's a newer architecture.
And as others had said, if you got a CPU like the E8500, you'll get better performance for about $80 less.
If you don't plan on overclocking, you get a Cooler Master case, and it's not going to be scrunched in the corner with poor ventilation, an aftermarket cooler is unnecessary.
I would think the first rule of PR is to ignore forum people, because they vacillate between crazy and liar. - Elysium
I just built my new machine from newegg parts 2 months ago. Here's my stuff:
I'll also agree to go with dual core, maybe with the money you save go with 3.0 GHz dual.
Yes you should replace the stock fan, just because it's not good. Even a $20 fan is better.
When I was researching my parts, I read somewhere that the 9800 GTX were a little longer than the 8800 series and some people had trouble fitting them in their case. I don't have actual proof or citation, but check the feedback on newegg.
bnpederson wrote:
I built a gaming rig recently, and I totally recommend the ATI 4850. Excellent value for price, but it does run a bit hot. The latest drivers and a workaround on the profiles should set your temps to more acceptable levels.
On a sidenote, I got a E7200 for a processor, mainly because it OC's like a beast. Now, I know you don't want to OC, but, I'm still using my stock cooler. Why? It runs quiet, and with my CPU OC'ed to 3.2Ghz (from 2.53), I still get nice temps all the way. Real Temp registered a max temp of 61º Celsius, during a benchmark that lasted about 30 hours. Since I rarely get up to 100% load for long periods of time, I find that my stock cooler, for now, does it's job well. Of course that I can't go to 3.6Ghz or 3.8 without upgrading it, but, as I said, for now, it is sufficient.
So, with proper ventilation (this is a must, make sure the air flows inside your case, every component will benefit from it), and without OC'ing, the stock cooler should be fine.
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I'm just about to make my order -- all I have to do is choose between the GTX 260 or ATI 4870. It's a toss-up for me; I've read so many comparisons that my mind is flooded with numbers and I might just go with the better price (or better mail-in rebate). Thanks to everyone for the detailed replies. I feel like I'm definitely going to get better results with some of the changes I made to my initial set-up.
Hopefully I can get 'er put together and in working order soon. I am going with Vista 64 so I'm looking forward to seeing something other than XP and feeling that RAM, if nothing else.
Can't wait to finally be officially back in the PC scene. Left 4 Dead, TF2, Fallout 3 and a bunch more should be glorious. Yes!
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
Awesome! Have fun building it and welcome to the best gaming experience out there! (I'm such a PC fanboi).
Post here if you run into any walls. We have tons of people that can help.
Thanks for standin' still Wanker!
-XBox Gamertag: Tempest Blaze (Without the Y)
Good luck! It's always awesome putting a machine together and hearing it roar defiantly!
It comes ALIVE! heheh
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The most exciting part is coming up: getting everything in the mail.
Hopefully, you won't have any hicups during your assembling process.
Oh if you don't know already, you should put your PC together (CPU, RAM, GFX card, HDD) before you get them into the case. That way you can sort out any possible problems that would otherwise be more troublesome to fix after you have everything mounted.
Good Luck! And Have Fun!
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
I may be supremely nerdy, but I had a dream last night that I got my stuff in the mail. Yeah, I'm excited.
Luckily, everything is scheduled to arrive tomorrow and Friday, which means I'll have the long weekend to either work on assembling it or getting Vista configured and a game or two running.
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
Well you are looking for a clean (dust free) area that won't give off static charges. So don't build-it on the carpet floor like a buddy of mine did...... (his build did not go well)
I did mine on my kitchen table. Seemed to work fine.
Just during the proccess make sure you keep yourself grounded so you don't give off any static charges.
I kinda prefer silently whispering to life.
Cars+loud=good
Computer+loud=bad
shihonage wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJI just use the box that comes with the motherboard. I put the static bag for the mobo in between the mobo and the box though, but that is mainly for easier transport of the mobo and its contents should you need to lift it up a little bit, etc.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Good luck with the build, fella (even if you're a Brewers fan). I built my first last at the end of 2006, and its a fantastic, nerve-wracking experience.
I'd be interested to hear if you're happy with your video card choice and Vista. I'm considering upgrading my Sapphire x1950 for Fallout 3 with for a cooler and more stable alternative. That means either a 8800GT (dual slot) or a 4870 (if I can justify the cash). Honestly, I'm alittle confused as to manufacturers (except eVGA for any Nvidia) and whether my system would be able to make the most of the upgrades, so your decision to build from the ground up sounds easier!
Quintin_Stone wrote:
It is alive!
After going out for dinner and beer on Friday night, I went to town on assembling the beast and arrived at the moment of truth at about 3 a.m. It powered on, despite some issues with the power/reset buttons, and the six or so fans started whirring, but I didn't get any signal to my monitor. That sucked, because that was the last thing I expected to cause problems. I was dead tired and out of patience at that point, so I went to sleep a half hour later without any resolution.
I got back to it this morning and realized the IP 35 Pro has a little display that monitors the POST process, so even though I didn't have a display I discovered that it did in fact reach the point of booting up without problems. That was pure relief -- all my hardware works. Then I plugged the monitor back in and it worked just fine. More relief -- I can see what's going on and get into the BIOS. I think I started missing some of the details on Friday night since I was so ready for bed.
I kind of pumped my fists and announced to my girlfriend that it WORKS! I went and installed Vista 64 a little while ago (surprisingly quick install) and I'm running and posting from it now. This is rad. Seems like this rig is pretty smokin' fast.
Sadly, I don't have any PC games to try out, but I think I'm going to sell some 360 games this week so I can justify buying TF2 for a second platform. I'll probably grab the Crysis demo so I can see what all the graphical fuss is about, and play with Vista some more.
Anyway, so far, so good.
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
awesome news! Remember to tweak vista. (like turn off UAC, setup your own background defrag schedule, limit the scope of the Indexing Service etc.)
Don't forget to get the latest drivers too. In that regard, grab the free tool called "Driver Sweeper" from Guru3D, and use it to clean up remnants of older drivers on your PC.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Sweet! I always love hearing comp success stories. The bios LED is one of the reason I love the IP35. It help so much when things go wrong so you can tell if its the mobo or not.
Download many demos and get the orange box or just tf2 on steam. Hopefully we will see you in stans soon!
You picked a great time to build a rig. We have so many PC games being released.
Thanks for standin' still Wanker!
-XBox Gamertag: Tempest Blaze (Without the Y)
Congrats! ^_^ Fallout 3 might tax a bit your machine. Not much time left now...
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What video card did you end up with? I'm hoping it's not NVidia -- there's rumors that there are widespread problem with almost all of their chips in 65 and 55nm, with premature failure rates in the high teens.
According to the rumor I read (which isn't confirmed, so don't take this as fact yet), they're not going to recall the chips, and in fact will continue to sell the known-defective ones alongside good ones, because they simply can't afford not to. If they junk the defective parts, they'll be in major financial trouble, where if they go ahead and ship them, they can shift a lot of the pain onto us.