When is the hobby too much?
I've often wondered about when our gaming time crosses from the "hobby" category into "unhealthy", and it wasn't until Bill Harris' recent post about an 18-hour Final Fantasy XI boss battle that I realized that the stereotypical answer of "when you disregard sleep" isn't always right. When is it too much? A lot of us, myself included, are happy to spend an all-nighter on a new game or a particularly engrossing title. The Civilization series is notorious for making PC gamers see the dawn of a new day without knowing the time had passed, and it's not weird or unusual. It's common knowledge that with a new Sid Meier's comes reduced REM cycles.
Is it our culture? What about Korea and their multitude of computer gaming cafes that have seen many session hours last into the double digits. Granted they've cut back the deaths involved from the lack of self nutrition and basic movements of both the limbs and the bowels, but could the culture itself account for how it's normal there while here gaming is still a somewhat embarrassing hobby to have after you are out of high school? A recent topic on this very forum addresses this, and a lot of replies have shown that people tend to not even mention gaming unless the other person has already brought it up, or it's known that they do it themselves.
Personally, I can only count the times I've stayed up way too damn late gaming on one hand, but I think it's because I'm very conscious of the time I use for leisure activities. Once I have played more than two hours I feel guilty for continuing even if I want to, so I stop and go off to be social. Why am I like this I don't know, it's just how I am. I think it's a part of the equation to why I can't get hooked to an MMORPG, but that's another topic in itself.
Back to the original question, and I'll expand my thoughts once the community starts to converse: When does it become too much?
Yet even then we ran like the wind,
whilst our laughter echoed under cerulean skies...
I also think it depends on what there is that the other person could be doing. There's not always a better alternative. I certaintly think playing a video is better than just watching tv (at least you are engaging your brain). A book would certaintly be a better alternative, but say you don't have a new book at the time and going out specifically to get one isn't feasible at the time that's another thing.
The question becomes, what opportunity cost is gaming charging you at any given time? Also is this opportunity cost worth it to you?
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Elysium wrote:
When it starts affecting other areas of your life and/or the people around you. I believe it's that simple. If you pull all-nighters Monday through Friday, don't be surprised when you get fired because you can't even stay awake. Etc.
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What if you are doing sleep studies, ever think of that smarty pants?!
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A very good friend of mine still raids on World of Warcraft five nights a week, Monday through Friday, and has a full-time job. He says he is always tired, yet he hasn't stopped doing it. He also doesn't regret doing it, and he has been fired before (don't know if it was over sleepless nights). Is it too much for him?
Yet even then we ran like the wind,
whilst our laughter echoed under cerulean skies...
For me, too much is when a game starts feeling like an obligation. One of the reasons I quit WoW was because I realized I had started scheduling my life around it - I'd find myself thinking things like oh, I can't go out with the guys on Friday, we're raiding that night. If I can't stop playing the game at a moment's notice, maybe I shouldn't be playing it at all. Gaming is supposed to be a leisure activity, not a second job.
wordsmythe wrote:
It's too much when it becomes a job. Or when you spend as much time at it as your job. Or if it gets in the way of you doing your job.
The best way to deal with this is to have kids. That (theoretically) puts a built-in limiter into your life.
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For me, I'm much more likely to lose sleep over the 360 than I am the PC. I guess it's because I'm either in my easy chair or relaxed on the couch. I don't game much on the laptop except for some games of Bookworm Adventures or other "lite" types of games. I'm 47 now and find I just can't stay sitting at the computer desk for 12 hours at a time on weekends like I used to do. None of this has anything to do with my hobby becoming too much, but I think Mystic hit the nail on the head. When it starts affecting others, when it becomes something you shouldn't be doing, then it's a problem. Of course, considering my handle here, be sure to take relationship advice from me!
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True for me. I don't do any solo gaming until after my daughter's in bed for the night and things are generally put in order for the next day. We play games together occasionally, but early on I decided gaming wasn't ever going to cut into any of my parenting time.
My sleep, though...that's another story. I've lost plenty of sleep to gaming.
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I'd agree as well that gaming (or any hobby) is becoming too much if it's either starting to foul the relationships with those you are close to or affecting your means of sustaining your lifestyle (i.e. your job.) I try to game as much as I can but if a friend calls and wants to do something, I'll always do that except in special cases where I've agreed to meet up with a group of people online at a certain time. And I've never once had the thought when I get up on a workday that "Hey, I could just call in sick and game all day." I did have days with former employers I really detested where I would get up and call in sick just because I couldn't stomach the thought of going in that day but I would rarely spend those days gaming and gaming was never the motivating factor. That's just me though and obviously everyone's mileage varies.
"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
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Parallax, did you ever stay home from school to game? I know I did, and half my class missed the day that Halo 2 launched.
Yet even then we ran like the wind,
whilst our laughter echoed under cerulean skies...
When you stop reading a book occasionally or your kid draws a picture of you and in the picture you're sitting in front of a computer alone.
I say when it starts seriously effecting those around you. For example, my girlfriend and I game a lot, and we play together a lot as well. (Double digits a day, easily.) But it doesn't really effect anyone around us.
St.Hillary wrote:
Commence your hatred, gentlemen.- Tired all the time
- Risk of being fired
- No social life
Yes, it is.
Just because he continues to do it doesn't mean it isn't a problem. It doesn't bother him because it doesn't affect anyone but him. Throw a significant other in there and either the habit ends or the relationship will.
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Vrikk it sounds like your friend is the gamer equivalent of a functional alcoholic.
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No, my Mom wouldn't permit it during elementary and high school and I actually didn't do any post-secondary.
I did remember one thing that kind of fits though: I booked a day off a previous job for the day Half-Life 2 launched. A bunch of friends and I were looking forward to it so much that we all pledged to book the day off and all be on TeamSpeak to unlock it. We ended up going for coffee when Valve's servers took the piss and didn't actually unlock it until around 4:00am. 
I didn't call in sick for that one though and I literally booked it months in advance.
"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca
This is a very interesting topic.
I find myself often getting caught between internal questions of how to best spent my free time. The worst part in my personal case is that I find myself spending more time talking about games on the internet than actually playing them in real life. A big contribution to that equation is that I am in front of a computer (work, etc.) far more than I am in front of a television (that I share with my wife).
More to the point, I take mass transit to work and spend roughly 50% of the time reading the daily paper or novels, 25% listening to podcasts (gaming and npr) and 25% of the time PSP'ing. The personal struggle comes most when I'm leisure reading. I'm a fan of classic lit and have a passion for 19th century Russian authors, Shakespeare, and such. I'm currently reading A. Chekhov. He's a cool cat and all and I really enjoy the material. But an unfortunate side affect is that the gravity of what I'm reading makes me wonder if I'm wasting my time being so emotionally invested in gaming.
When I consider the sense of culture I get from reading my snooty books, watching indy/foreign films (pretty much the only movie-going experience I'm willing to attend any more), and the occasional trips to the theater, I actually feel guilty because I spend the bulk of my time mentally involved in gaming (playing, following the industry, chatting online), in spite of all these other extracurricular activities described.
The odd truth is that I find just as much art in the gaming landscape as all the other "legitimate" artsy-fartsy tastes that I enjoy. But for some reason, while actively involved in anything outside of my #1 passion (gaming, duh), I look back on it as somehow irrelevant and trite. It would be so much easier if my #1 pleasure in life were somehow more admirable. There are so many activities and hobbies that are considered more enriching (sports, writing, outdoor activities...hell, even the chess club).
I do have moments of clarity where I realize that no matter how much high culture or "irrelevant/juvenile" gaming I digest, none of it will matter a lick when I'm gone. So what's the problem with simply chasing the passions that suit my fancy at any given moment? I don't let any of my hobbies get in the way of my work or relationships (mostly!) so I shouldn't feel bad about choices and directions that are not destructive. I enjoy a spectrum of activities and often wonder why I judge myself negatively when comparing one to the next. It all seems kind of silly when pulling back and looking at it.
I can become quite obsessive about anything, gaming included, so a long time ago I made up a simple rule: whenever there's a choice between gaming night and social night (i.e. with friends, girlfriend, family etc.), the latter one wins by default. I never regretted it. You can always game later when you have free alone time, but lots of social occasions are unique. It is implied that you genuinely care about the people you are planning to meet, of course.
As we are currently expecting a baby, I have my natural gametime limiter coming:)
You can't take the sky from me.
Why is gaming not counted as a social experience? Some of the coolest people I know I have never met in real space. They are just a voice over vent or xbox etc, I would argue that a Friday night playing gears and beers with the crew here is just as social as a night out at the bar except a lot cheaper.
When your responsibilities to provide for you or your family begin to suffer I would say you have crossed the line but that is going to be different for everyone. When Age of Conan launched I had taken that Monday and Tuesday off of work to play. Was that to much? Did I cross the line because I took off work to play? I would argue not because in my situation I had the time to burn, I never take time off, and a couple days away from work for what ever reason did me good. Now if I was struggling at work and I did that maybe I would view it differently.
I got a phone call last night on my way home from the gym, from a buddy to go grab a beer at a local bar. I took a pass (not that I told him this is why) to go home and play some madden. Was that to much? I do not think so because that is what I wanted to do with my free time.
If it is your free time I do not think anyone can say what is better or worse to fill that time.
lancejt wrote:
This has always been a hard one for me. If I have a new game that really has my attention I can spend nearly every spare second during the week. For example I got Sins of a Solar Empire on tuesday and played it for about 10 hours straight on my day off the next day. I can just take games way way too far.
That is why I promised myself and my wife no more MMO's. I also try to keep my playing to less than 4 nights a week.
Lots of responses, er, that I didn't read. Anyway, if this has been said I apologize, but I have a pretty indicator that I've been gaming too much.
It's when I'm not having fun with it anymore. Gaming should be something that I sit down because I want to, play because I want to, and enjoy because it's fun. Whenever I start thinking I have to get down there and do it, it's time for a break.
I am having less and less issues with gaming causing me to neglect other things. It's just not that important to me. But sometimes I realize that I'm sitting down because I think I should, and I usually have a mediocre time with it.
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Bingo. I hit a similar revelation back in college, which shifted my priorities dramatically and I have rarely regretted it. Even when I regret it, it's in more of a "man, I could've been doing X" way, and then I look at the people in my life and realize they mean more to me and I get more enjoyment and fulfillment out of that.
Life's too short to live it for someone else.
I remembered that I wrote something kind of along these lines earlier. Not exactly the same but still pertinent to the discussion, I hope.
Is it tacky to link to an article that's a year and a half old that you yourself wrote? Yeah, probably.
Do I care?
No. Not really.
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I forgot to add that I don't play multiplayer online games. Or, I have never played one until my quite recent obsession with TF2. I hope it adds a perspective to what I said. Also, I consider my TF2 nights - especially with my brother and GWJ guys - as quite a social night. Although I'd still probably choose a night at the movies with my girlfriend over it.
You can't take the sky from me.
Marry her and you wont feel that way any more
lancejt wrote:
A friend of mine raids with two different guilds and works for Blizzard during the day. At least he probably won't get fired for being tired.
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I've had this discussion with my girlfriend before. Sometimes we'll have a couple of friends over on Friday or Saturday. They, my girlfriend and my tenant like playing cards or "casual" board games like Yahtzee, both of which I find incredibly boring. I'll play once in a while but not often. Unfortunately, my girlfriend isn't into the more complicated German-esque board games and has no real interest in video gaming either, unless it's Rock Band which they've gotten a bit bored of themselves. So often I'll jump in Gears & Beers or something else with some Goodjers because I can do so while remaining near them since our townhouse has a shared living/dining room. If there's a good discussion going on, I'll also leave my headset off so I can participate. She's gotten cross with me a couple of times because of this. My argument has always been "I don't require you to like games so why should I be required to like cards and Yahtzee?" Her argument is that she feels I'm being anti-social from the group which I don't agree with because I structure it in a way that still allows my to participate socially with them but doing something I enjoy while they do something they enjoy. I think this is one of those things she just doesn't quite comprehend because she's never been into this hobby, having "virtual friends" and because at least in our experience, its rare to find someone who doesn't enjoy cards.
"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca
I really hate it when some one claims I am being "anti-social" by playing games or reading or doing something else I enjoy in the same room with them. They are doing something they enjoy like watching t.v. or playing cards. For the record I find most card games very boring.
I can't figure out why its anti-social. Does that mean I have gone too far? I don't know. I just think they are wrong and probably lonely.
A big barometer for me is if I'm pursuing my other hobbies. I have many other hobbies. Aside from hanging out with my wife, watching our TV shows and going to the movies I have social engagements with friends, exercising, triathlon training, reading technical books for my job, reading novels for fun and reading other books for general enlightenment. That's a lot right there before even touching a console.
So one of the things I always struggle with is *what* I'm playing and if I'm getting the most bang for my buck. i.e. If I have 4 hours a week to game am I better served playing SP games or trying to play with friends. I lately have been playing SP, but playing with friends lately has reminded me how happy that makes me. So I have to figure out a way to do all of the above, which always takes a precedence over gaming, while also making time to play. If the time isn't there, though, the time just isn't there.
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holy crap.. that's a powerful image right there.
I think I'd go batsh*t and start a life revolution if that happened
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Because when you have guests over, you don't do what you want. You, as the host, do what they want. When they're in the dining room playing cards except you, who is it the living room playing "Nintendo" but still listening to the conversation and yelling responses at them, it not right. Even though you say "I don't like to play cards," your guests will still take it the wrong way. "Oh, he doesn't want to play with us." "He'd rather play 'Nintendo' than play with us." "I guess he doesn't like to talk to us."
It really has more to do with respect. If you respect your guests, you will suck it up and engage them. As much as you hate playing cards, you do it to show them that you at least value their visits. You can also try to introduce them to another game you may like.
Now, if they aren't talking to you or couldn't care less about you, screw them. Show them that you don't care if they ever visit again. You play with the headphones on.
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