Kirk Vs. Picard
The Trek vs War thread from last weekend ended with a suggestion that someone start a Kirk vs Picard thread. Nobody's done it, so I figured I might as well stir the pot.
Full disclosure: I do not take this as seriously as the below text is going to make it sound. I just find it easy to geek out.
Personally, I'm a Kirk man, and here's why: Picard had the opportunity to destroy the Borg with some Escher prints, and he chose not to. Picard had to then spend a whole movie (while getting his manhood insulted by a 21st century woman) cleaning up that mess.
I can't imagine Kirk, being in the same situation, turning down such a huge strategic advantage versus an aggressive and nigh unstoppable enemy.
Another example: Picard gets pulled into the Nexis, and is informed that he can go back to any point in history he wants to. Knowing he has to stop a madman from destroying a sun, Picard decides to go get James T. Kirk and he goes back in time... 5 minutes.
Not a week ago, when he had the madman on his ship defensless and unaware that Picard knew the game. Not a few hours ago, when he could have alerted Geordi to shut down the transporters and keep the madman on his ship. No, he goes back in time five minutes and only succeeds because James Tiberius Kirk throws a better punch than he does.
When Kirk did time travel, he got to when he wanted to be.
Also, not once in seven seasons and four movies did Picard once punch a god in the mouth. Kirk freakin' killed Apollo for eyeballing his lady.
Finally, the ultimate evidence that Kirk is better: Picard becomes more like Kirk as The Next Generation proceeded. In the beginning he was all "Oh, I'm French and we're so enlightened that we don't have things like aggression. Where's my tea?" By First Contact he was mowing down Borg with a Thompson submachine gun.
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The man speaks truth, we have a winner so we must lock thread.
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Yeah, hard to argue with that.
I still like them both. Picard was "Turn the other cheek", Kirk was "Git 'er dun"
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No argument here.
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I'm a Kirk man.
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Kirk was a man's man, yet he cried when Spock died, when Spock came back (spoilers) and when his son died. Kirk has more range of emotion in addition to his forceful command of a starship and ability to fight (or love) any alien he meets.
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Kirk-he was better with the green and blue ladies than Picard ever was.
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I don't think I've ever had so many people agree with me on any given subject in my entire career on the internet.
I am now validated as a person. You all have my thanks.
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First, putting (spoilers) after the spoilers is a little bit like going to an Alabama strip club only to find out they never take off a 2-piece, only the shirt over the bikini (and it's not an itty bitty bikini either).
Second, while DT's logic is sound, I am a Picard man. Not only is it Generational, I am more a logic guy than a "ruled by emotions" guy. Plus, Picard gets way more respect from the Feddies and the baddies - you don't f w/ Picard. Kirk is always in some sort of mess or another, and half the time he's w/out a ship!
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This is all you need to see to know just who the winner is.
PS: It's Kirk!
Edit: I still think Picard is the man.
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Despite his ignorance of my state's adult entertainment practices, I have to concur with Shoal. Sure, Kirk was brash, and wild, but he acted like the drunken frat boy that everyone hated because he slept with a teacher to get an A. Picard showed that being a literate, logical, and thoughtful captain could gain you a Klingon's respect without ever being in battle. Picard has a freakin' maneuver named after him. Kirk is Dubya with better luck.
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Sisko would kick both of their asses.
I grew up watching TNG so its Picard for me. True Picard didn't get as much tail as Kirk, but at least he didn't have to have his captain's chair disinfected everytime they broke orbit. Kirk seemed more ruled by his emotions. Picard could be one cold motherf*cker when he wanted to be.
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TNG split the Kirk role up between Picard and Riker, so a direct comparison is hard. Kirk was a brash young officer in the initial run of the show and should be more of an freebooting ass-kicker than middle-aged Picard. Plus, Kirk cheats. He doesn't believe in losing, whereas there is a sense with Picard that there are some boundaries he'd die rather than cross. Kirk looks at the boundaries, takes a flying leap over them, and kicks his enemies in the nuts.
Kaylee.
<aside>
I can't believe I'm adding anything to a Kirk/Picard discussion. I think that automatically lowers me one rank on the Geekier-than scale. *sigh*
</aside>
I would contest this. I'm sure that the more rule-bound Federation higher-ups appreciated Picard's willingness to, say, not start wars and such. I'm similarly sure that Kirk had his fans among the Federation brass, the 'git'er dun' boys that the military is full of.
I'd also be surprised if there weren't a good number of baddies that didn't want to mess with Kirk because he was a dirty fighter. Yes, Picard earned respect through ability; Kirk earned it through fear. I respect a grizzly bear, because it may go ballistic and try to eat my head. I think Kirk was the same way.
It is worth noting again that Picard became more Kirk-ish over the run of the series. Kirk never became more Picard-ish.
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True, but the six movies covered his later career. Even as an old man it was implied that he could not stand working within the strictures of Star Fleet headquarters and felt the best way to handle the death of his son was to work the old magic and single-handedly eliminate the Klingons by causing a supernova around their planet or something.
You mean the t-shirt/bikini stripping thing actually happened? Wow. Just...wow.
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Those were sarcastic spoilers. Like spoilers for Empire Strikes Back or something.
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Yeah - Act 1 (most strippers do two songs) She comes out, somewhat hot T-shirt (split, kinda seethru) over a bikini. I figure this is her deal, right. Off comes the shirt through the song. Ok, diggin it. Then, second song, lots of dancin, but... that's it. Then she leaves the stage. My buddy and I are a little, taken aback. Ok, maybe, we figure, she's special, or underage, or somethin. Well, after the second girl does a similar act we bail and go to Tenessee. Serious as a heart attack.
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Next bracket:
Kirk vs. Sisko
(which makes me think that a huge NCAA-style bracket of sci-fi characters would be awesome)
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Picard has to get some points for having all the memories/emotions of Spock's father, Sarek.
He also got stabbed in the heart.
Think about it.
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I agree. Because Sisko is scary in a way that Kirk will never be. I get the feeling he'd go to further extremes that you'd never see coming as opposed to the un-devious Kirk's approach which is pretty predictable.... Picard isn't mean and so isn't scary.
Summary: All three are good but one is like a Batman, one is like a Klingon in human form and the other is an adventuresome scholar.... maybe an elderly Indiana Jones or his father?
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Sherlock Holmes was an adventurous scholar--and he jujitsu'd the head of the english mob down a waterfall/ravine. Fear the adventurous scholar over those that could easily be overcome by unthinking rage.
Ugh. I just contributed to this thread.
Edit: clarification. Vote- Picard.
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I am a Picard supporter. Like other people have said he can be very cold. He would happily kill the ship and its crew if he thought it was worth it. Would Kirk do the same?
No more Kirk vs. Its played out. I say we get to the real issue.
LaForge vs. Scotti. GO!
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Scotty all the way. He was able to wire the Enterprise-A so that, "a chimpazee and two trainees could run her."
And he had that awesome policy of exaggerating his estimates on repair times so he always looked like he was working hard and finishing ahead of schedule.
Meanwhile, Geordi is busy pining over a hologram. But we have to give him props for getting Data introduced to the Sherlock Holmes holonovel.
God, I'm such a nerd.
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What is that like +200 Kirk vs +2 Picard?
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We may need to combine Picard with Prof. X.
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