I stepped in, but am a bit undergeared still. I got my 20 slot bag and 2 badges, though!
Damn, those Dragonhawks are a bitch. I need to go watch a video or read up on how to pally those so none get through.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I've never been able to actually watch what Krindle does, because I'm always focused on the boss. I hear the vent chat, but don't see anything. I think the idea is usually to kill one hatcher, and then let the other hatcher open as many eggs as you can handle, and then kill him, and then all the birds. Rinse and repeat.
With the strong healers we have in GWJ, Krindle can actually handle an entire side at once, but couldn't at first. I'm not sure if that's because he's geared better or if the healers are, but it's probably not likely that you'll be able to do that many. I believe he wears his spell damage gear for the hawks, so he gets big AOE threat, and I imagine he'd probably stand on the bridges to catch them as they try to go by. But that's just a guess, because I can't see what he's doing. I think he also bubbles about halfway through to wipe off the flame debuff, and he stays way far away from the boss so he doesn't get flame breathed. He got too close once, and that was an insta death. (fortunately, that's an easy fight to reset, so generally you can avoid a complete wipe.)
Basically, you just need to kill the hatchers fast enough so that when they all pop at 30%, you can grab all the rest. The faster you can kill them, of course, the better, because that frees the dps to work on the main boss, and you're under time pressure. But just killing him at all is more important than killing him fast.
I think maybe I just need one of the DPS killing the marked hatcher to immediately come over and zap the hatching hatcher so I don't take all 20 hawks at once(I think it's 20).
But my main problem was that the interval between Consecrate and a new wave of birds was such that I couldn't grab them all. Some got through, immediately went to my healer, and downhill things go from there.
I had the basic mechanics, but it's the execution where I could use a fraps with voiceover to see if I'm missing some actions or if I'm just not quite geared enough to pull a Krindle.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
Had I known ahead of time, I would've been online to help, sorry guys...
Complex fight for a pally tank for sure. The type I really enjoy because of the chaos and the massive amount of mobs beating the crap out of you. I'm a little warped
I use a very different gear set, mainly made out of T4 gear pieces (4-set) and the 100 badge pally chest (60 spell damage). T4 is a little broken in our favor since it gives a high amount of spell damage, which is perfect for getting threat. Using trinkets such as Figurine of the Colossus (heal on block) and Commendation of Kael'thas (dodge proc at 35% health, high stam) are also really good.
Meanwhile, you will not be tanking Jan'Alai for this fight, so no worries about crushing blows since hawks are lvl 70 - 72. So 485 Defense, and 101.8% mitigation if you don't want to get hit (sorta the reason I say understanding your class mechanics is crucial to doing well as that class).
Let's face it though, you're going to have 4 - 5 waves on you, so you're gonna get hit. Don't sacrifice too much health, as you want to have atleast 15k buffed for this. Aim for around 700 spell damage too to get the threat you need in the time you need it.
For Strategy, Mark one hatcher, have 2 designated dps take out the other. They then should use single target killing on hawks until you have 4 - 5 waves on you. At that point (when 4th wave comes out) have them kill the marked hatcher (so you'll likely get 5 waves total). Meanwhile, getting threat on the first hawk is always the toughest. This is the strategy I use to get them:
Follow the hatcher and lay a consecrate in front of him if you beat him, or right on top of him where he stops if you are behind him. Judge and reseal righteousness on the first hawk. Kite the hawks back to the main platform making sure they stay in consecrate. Taunt any that get by as soon as possible (likely first and second waves). You should be back on the main platform with the third consecrate, keeping it up at the lip of the bridge so hawks coming will HAVE to go through it. If you are still on the bridge or egg platform during bomb phase, you'll get teleported and will have to go running back to get the hawks (your further distance means healers can very likely grab aggro during that time). Make sure you find a spot clear of bombs, which will be difficult since you have to see through about 15 mobs to see if you are on one, meanwhile keeping aggro all around.
The reason for the tough aggro gain is that the hawks will be building aggro as soon as they are released. This means they are going for the healers with about 3 - 4k threat. Healing aggro is split by how many mobs are being fought. So if you have 6 mobs on you, your healer is now taking 1/6th aggro to each hawks. So by the third wave, 1 - 2 ticks of consecrate should be enough to keep them. With DPS killing the second hatcher after 4 - 5 waves, you should have enough built up aggro to keep them off the dps too when they start their AoE.
Copingsaw wrote:
Honestly, I think if we could get Krindle to tank Al Qaeda, this world would be a much safer place.
In a selfish way, I'm glad you weren't around and that Stormy discoed.
It was a good experience for me to have. Your explanation helps a fair bit.
Things for me to try next time - swap out to as much SpellDamage as I can, start my Consecrates all the way on the egg platform and gradually walk them back to the main platform(I think that's kinda what you said), and communicate more about when others should burn down the hatcher, swap avoidance trinket for Colossus, etc.
Also, I think I should bring some spellpower consumables. Food, elixir/pot, etc. I also forgot to Wizard Oil my new mace. Oops.
Additionally, if I can predict when a hatch will happen, maybe I can get a Avenger's Shield off at the hatcher and let the bounce help with aggro on 2 of the dragonhawks.
I'd love to get another shot at that fight. I'm sure I can do better with more practice.
And now on the unselfish side, sorry I couldn't handle the hawks, and it would've been cool if, after a couple of failures, Krindle could have hopped in to get you guys the kill, or Stormy would've reappeared.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I actually did a full write up this morning, went to post and have my connection fail, losing the full write up
So you got the abridged version.
Overall yeah, you want consecrate to hit the first hawk right out of the gate, followed by a JoR. I wouldn't suggest AS though, as it costs a large amount of mana, and will only hit two targets. Max rank consecrate, Holy Shield, and SoR will do just fine. But if you find it helps, go for it. You'll finish the hawks with close to full mana, but if you can't keep max consecrate going during that phase, you're gonna get screwed
Kiting them back just makes sure that you have room to keep them (you know they're going via bridge, so if one gets by, easy to see where it'll go to start). Plus, you can keep them all right in front of you to make sur that you get as many blocks as possible. Once you get out to the main platform, they'll likely spread out and surround you move, making it tough to keep mitigating damage (no block, parry or dodge when they are at your sides or behind you). Meanwhile, you don't want to stop in a corner either, as one bad bomb and you're toast. You'll need room to move around.
Copingsaw wrote:
Honestly, I think if we could get Krindle to tank Al Qaeda, this world would be a much safer place.
I wouldn't suggest AS though, as it costs a large amount of mana, and will only hit two targets.
The only reason I considered it was that I was already having issues with some hawks going to my healer and mana doesn't seem to be an issue (at least for me) on that fight, as I take plenty of damage to get mana back.
I guess, though, it would be a low-return mana investment.
I'm just trying to work out things I can do at my current gear level to help keep my healer out of aggro.
I'm glad you posted the above, it'll help immensely next time I'm there.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I was healing Duci and I've healed Krin through that fight. We got overwhelmed and things were hitting me which impacted my ability to keep Duci up. Thanks Krin for the tips for Duci
Live Strong
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. ~ George Carlin
I'll try to get a Spelldamage set set up in ClosetGnome tonight.
It's a rock and a hard place, though. My 2 main spelldamage swap-ins take the place of my 2 best BlockValue pieces.
Righteous Gloves and Chest for Panzar Thar's and Maiden's gloves. I'll see what I can cook up. I can probably swap around some gems on those pieces, too.
I'll definitely have a better plan for what to do next time, though. Thanks!
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I'll try to get a Spelldamage set set up in ClosetGnome tonight.
It's a rock and a hard place, though. My 2 main spelldamage swap-ins take the place of my 2 best BlockValue pieces.
Righteous Gloves and Chest for Panzar Thar's and Maiden's gloves. I'll see what I can cook up. I can probably swap around some gems on those pieces, too.
I'll definitely have a better plan for what to do next time, though. Thanks!
While BV is important, keeping threat is #1 priority. You can always reduce how many mobs come out to a controllable amount. Typically, you'll have 4 sets of hatchers available before/including the "Great Hatching". With a total of 40 eggs, 20 per side, that means you only need to take 4 waves (1+2+3+4), or 10 hawks each go. If you limit that, you don't have to worry so much about things like block value...or possibly even heals
Copingsaw wrote:
Honestly, I think if we could get Krindle to tank Al Qaeda, this world would be a much safer place.
Read something today that could help a bit on the dragonhawks...
Have a hunter or shaman put a slow-them-down next to the paladin. More ticks in consecrate and more chance to grab a stray with SoR/JoR/Taunt.
Also make sure the healer for the paladin is standing inside the consecrate or have them run to the consecrate if they get aggro, to help pally regain aggro with consecrate ticks.
Just adding this to the record, in case it could help. I realize being within melee range makes their aggro issues worse, but better to have Consecrate ticking and me not having to chase and leave my post, no? I could be wrong.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
The way I actually learned the fight was with the help of a hunter's frost trap (slow down). It works great. I think we could probably get some of the veterans who are very used to this fight watching for hatchers so they can toss down a trap after the hatcher runs in. It definitely helps build aggro faster, which means alot easier to take the full side out.
Usually when I run this, I specify a healer, so they will be with/close to me for that reason. Meanwhile, remember that the other healers are also drawing aggro, and usually don't have the ability to move across the room. And putting all the healers together would be bad due to flame breathe potentially killing off the squishies
Copingsaw wrote:
Honestly, I think if we could get Krindle to tank Al Qaeda, this world would be a much safer place.
frost traps and totem of make-me-rage-in-pvp (earthbind) work fantastically.
Typically the healer that draws agro during the hawk hatching is the one on the MT (the dragonhawk tank healer isn't actually doing much until the tank starts collecting birds). Strangely, it might actually make more sense to have *that* person stand in consecrate while the paladin tank healer stands farther out.
Course -- I just added yet another layer of complexity to an already super complex fight so......yeah. =)
depending on your raid makeup, the alternate strat of tanking the boss in egg room 1 while killing hatchlings in bird room 2 might be out better. We used this until we got more AOE than a moonkin in our roster.
Perhaps a Frost Nova and/or Cone of Cold would help lock them down/slow them?
That'd surely help with slowing them down, though it might make the threat issue I was having worse/more complicated. How much threat does Nova cause, especially compared to the shaman/hunter slowdowns?
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
Perhaps a Frost Nova and/or Cone of Cold would help lock them down/slow them?
That'd surely help with slowing them down, though it might make the threat issue I was having worse/more complicated. How much threat does Nova cause, especially compared to the shaman/hunter slowdowns?
Would help, yes
The threat caused by that is prett minimal. I think 1 tick of Consecrate would take care of it. With the proper gear, you should be getting ticks of about 150 Holy damage, or 285 threat, and I can't see the Nova doing more than (285/0.7/0.9) 450 damage. Of course, they should be in Consecrate for more than 1 second too before it breaks, not to mention hitting you due to you being in melee range of them.
Copingsaw wrote:
Honestly, I think if we could get Krindle to tank Al Qaeda, this world would be a much safer place.
You can also downrank Nova and CoC with no effect on their slowing/root effects AFAIK. The only issue with nova is that if the mob is out of melee with Krin while frozen, it's not going to be getting tank threat except from the consecrate ticks.
The only issue with nova is that if the mob is out of melee with Krin while frozen, it's not going to be getting tank threat except from the consecrate ticks.
Normally that's enough though. Just a few seconds in that sucker and they'll be locked on. Somehow there's always one bugger that makes it through, and I'm thinking that's the one that'll need the root.
Copingsaw wrote:
Honestly, I think if we could get Krindle to tank Al Qaeda, this world would be a much safer place.
Typically, you'll have 4 sets of hatchers available before/including the "Great Hatching". With a total of 40 eggs, 20 per side, that means you only need to take 4 waves (1+2+3+4), or 10 hawks each go. If you limit that, you don't have to worry so much about things like block value...or possibly even heals
love ya too Krin
Live Strong
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. ~ George Carlin
I stepped in, but am a bit undergeared still. I got my 20 slot bag and 2 badges, though!
Damn, those Dragonhawks are a bitch. I need to go watch a video or read up on how to pally those so none get through.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I've never been able to actually watch what Krindle does, because I'm always focused on the boss. I hear the vent chat, but don't see anything. I think the idea is usually to kill one hatcher, and then let the other hatcher open as many eggs as you can handle, and then kill him, and then all the birds. Rinse and repeat.
With the strong healers we have in GWJ, Krindle can actually handle an entire side at once, but couldn't at first. I'm not sure if that's because he's geared better or if the healers are, but it's probably not likely that you'll be able to do that many. I believe he wears his spell damage gear for the hawks, so he gets big AOE threat, and I imagine he'd probably stand on the bridges to catch them as they try to go by. But that's just a guess, because I can't see what he's doing. I think he also bubbles about halfway through to wipe off the flame debuff, and he stays way far away from the boss so he doesn't get flame breathed. He got too close once, and that was an insta death. (fortunately, that's an easy fight to reset, so generally you can avoid a complete wipe.)
Basically, you just need to kill the hatchers fast enough so that when they all pop at 30%, you can grab all the rest. The faster you can kill them, of course, the better, because that frees the dps to work on the main boss, and you're under time pressure. But just killing him at all is more important than killing him fast.
I think maybe I just need one of the DPS killing the marked hatcher to immediately come over and zap the hatching hatcher so I don't take all 20 hawks at once(I think it's 20).
But my main problem was that the interval between Consecrate and a new wave of birds was such that I couldn't grab them all. Some got through, immediately went to my healer, and downhill things go from there.
I had the basic mechanics, but it's the execution where I could use a fraps with voiceover to see if I'm missing some actions or if I'm just not quite geared enough to pull a Krindle.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
Hmm, I thought Consecrate was the magic aggro button; doesn't it keep ticking all the time?
We also let too many eggs hatch too soon. I was focused on grabbing the stragglers that escaped when I should've burned the hatcher.
Cyrana Mage 72 ~ Artesia Druid 70
Cyranna Shaman 62 ~ Acereri - DK 61 ~ Artasian - Priest 59 ~ Lenna - Rogue 60
Had I known ahead of time, I would've been online to help, sorry guys...
Complex fight for a pally tank for sure. The type I really enjoy because of the chaos and the massive amount of mobs beating the crap out of you. I'm a little warped
I use a very different gear set, mainly made out of T4 gear pieces (4-set) and the 100 badge pally chest (60 spell damage). T4 is a little broken in our favor since it gives a high amount of spell damage, which is perfect for getting threat. Using trinkets such as Figurine of the Colossus (heal on block) and Commendation of Kael'thas (dodge proc at 35% health, high stam) are also really good.
Meanwhile, you will not be tanking Jan'Alai for this fight, so no worries about crushing blows since hawks are lvl 70 - 72. So 485 Defense, and 101.8% mitigation if you don't want to get hit (sorta the reason I say understanding your class mechanics is crucial to doing well as that class).
Let's face it though, you're going to have 4 - 5 waves on you, so you're gonna get hit. Don't sacrifice too much health, as you want to have atleast 15k buffed for this. Aim for around 700 spell damage too to get the threat you need in the time you need it.
For Strategy, Mark one hatcher, have 2 designated dps take out the other. They then should use single target killing on hawks until you have 4 - 5 waves on you. At that point (when 4th wave comes out) have them kill the marked hatcher (so you'll likely get 5 waves total). Meanwhile, getting threat on the first hawk is always the toughest. This is the strategy I use to get them:
Follow the hatcher and lay a consecrate in front of him if you beat him, or right on top of him where he stops if you are behind him. Judge and reseal righteousness on the first hawk. Kite the hawks back to the main platform making sure they stay in consecrate. Taunt any that get by as soon as possible (likely first and second waves). You should be back on the main platform with the third consecrate, keeping it up at the lip of the bridge so hawks coming will HAVE to go through it. If you are still on the bridge or egg platform during bomb phase, you'll get teleported and will have to go running back to get the hawks (your further distance means healers can very likely grab aggro during that time). Make sure you find a spot clear of bombs, which will be difficult since you have to see through about 15 mobs to see if you are on one, meanwhile keeping aggro all around.
The reason for the tough aggro gain is that the hawks will be building aggro as soon as they are released. This means they are going for the healers with about 3 - 4k threat. Healing aggro is split by how many mobs are being fought. So if you have 6 mobs on you, your healer is now taking 1/6th aggro to each hawks. So by the third wave, 1 - 2 ticks of consecrate should be enough to keep them. With DPS killing the second hatcher after 4 - 5 waves, you should have enough built up aggro to keep them off the dps too when they start their AoE.
Copingsaw wrote:
Super K - The "Anti-Wipe"
In a selfish way, I'm glad you weren't around and that Stormy discoed.
It was a good experience for me to have. Your explanation helps a fair bit.
Things for me to try next time - swap out to as much SpellDamage as I can, start my Consecrates all the way on the egg platform and gradually walk them back to the main platform(I think that's kinda what you said), and communicate more about when others should burn down the hatcher, swap avoidance trinket for Colossus, etc.
Also, I think I should bring some spellpower consumables. Food, elixir/pot, etc. I also forgot to Wizard Oil my new mace. Oops.
Additionally, if I can predict when a hatch will happen, maybe I can get a Avenger's Shield off at the hatcher and let the bounce help with aggro on 2 of the dragonhawks.
I'd love to get another shot at that fight. I'm sure I can do better with more practice.
And now on the unselfish side, sorry I couldn't handle the hawks, and it would've been cool if, after a couple of failures, Krindle could have hopped in to get you guys the kill, or Stormy would've reappeared.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I actually did a full write up this morning, went to post and have my connection fail, losing the full write up
So you got the abridged version.
Overall yeah, you want consecrate to hit the first hawk right out of the gate, followed by a JoR. I wouldn't suggest AS though, as it costs a large amount of mana, and will only hit two targets. Max rank consecrate, Holy Shield, and SoR will do just fine. But if you find it helps, go for it. You'll finish the hawks with close to full mana, but if you can't keep max consecrate going during that phase, you're gonna get screwed
Kiting them back just makes sure that you have room to keep them (you know they're going via bridge, so if one gets by, easy to see where it'll go to start). Plus, you can keep them all right in front of you to make sur that you get as many blocks as possible. Once you get out to the main platform, they'll likely spread out and surround you move, making it tough to keep mitigating damage (no block, parry or dodge when they are at your sides or behind you). Meanwhile, you don't want to stop in a corner either, as one bad bomb and you're toast. You'll need room to move around.
Copingsaw wrote:
Super K - The "Anti-Wipe"
The only reason I considered it was that I was already having issues with some hawks going to my healer and mana doesn't seem to be an issue (at least for me) on that fight, as I take plenty of damage to get mana back.
I guess, though, it would be a low-return mana investment.
I'm just trying to work out things I can do at my current gear level to help keep my healer out of aggro.
I'm glad you posted the above, it'll help immensely next time I'm there.

"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I was healing Duci and I've healed Krin through that fight. We got overwhelmed and things were hitting me which impacted my ability to keep Duci up. Thanks Krin for the tips for Duci
Live Strong
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. ~ George Carlin
I'll try to get a Spelldamage set set up in ClosetGnome tonight.
It's a rock and a hard place, though. My 2 main spelldamage swap-ins take the place of my 2 best BlockValue pieces.
Righteous Gloves and Chest for Panzar Thar's and Maiden's gloves. I'll see what I can cook up. I can probably swap around some gems on those pieces, too.
I'll definitely have a better plan for what to do next time, though. Thanks!
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
While BV is important, keeping threat is #1 priority. You can always reduce how many mobs come out to a controllable amount. Typically, you'll have 4 sets of hatchers available before/including the "Great Hatching". With a total of 40 eggs, 20 per side, that means you only need to take 4 waves (1+2+3+4), or 10 hawks each go. If you limit that, you don't have to worry so much about things like block value...or possibly even heals
Copingsaw wrote:
Super K - The "Anti-Wipe"
Read something today that could help a bit on the dragonhawks...
Have a hunter or shaman put a slow-them-down next to the paladin. More ticks in consecrate and more chance to grab a stray with SoR/JoR/Taunt.
Also make sure the healer for the paladin is standing inside the consecrate or have them run to the consecrate if they get aggro, to help pally regain aggro with consecrate ticks.
Just adding this to the record, in case it could help. I realize being within melee range makes their aggro issues worse, but better to have Consecrate ticking and me not having to chase and leave my post, no? I could be wrong.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
The way I actually learned the fight was with the help of a hunter's frost trap (slow down). It works great. I think we could probably get some of the veterans who are very used to this fight watching for hatchers so they can toss down a trap after the hatcher runs in. It definitely helps build aggro faster, which means alot easier to take the full side out.
Usually when I run this, I specify a healer, so they will be with/close to me for that reason. Meanwhile, remember that the other healers are also drawing aggro, and usually don't have the ability to move across the room. And putting all the healers together would be bad due to flame breathe potentially killing off the squishies
Copingsaw wrote:
Super K - The "Anti-Wipe"
frost traps and totem of make-me-rage-in-pvp (earthbind) work fantastically.
Typically the healer that draws agro during the hawk hatching is the one on the MT (the dragonhawk tank healer isn't actually doing much until the tank starts collecting birds). Strangely, it might actually make more sense to have *that* person stand in consecrate while the paladin tank healer stands farther out.
Course -- I just added yet another layer of complexity to an already super complex fight so......yeah. =)
depending on your raid makeup, the alternate strat of tanking the boss in egg room 1 while killing hatchlings in bird room 2 might be out better. We used this until we got more AOE than a moonkin in our roster.
[edit] for typos.
Perhaps a Frost Nova and/or Cone of Cold would help lock them down/slow them?
Cyrana Mage 72 ~ Artesia Druid 70
Cyranna Shaman 62 ~ Acereri - DK 61 ~ Artasian - Priest 59 ~ Lenna - Rogue 60
That'd surely help with slowing them down, though it might make the threat issue I was having worse/more complicated. How much threat does Nova cause, especially compared to the shaman/hunter slowdowns?
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
Would help, yes

The threat caused by that is prett minimal. I think 1 tick of Consecrate would take care of it. With the proper gear, you should be getting ticks of about 150 Holy damage, or 285 threat, and I can't see the Nova doing more than (285/0.7/0.9) 450 damage. Of course, they should be in Consecrate for more than 1 second too before it breaks, not to mention hitting you due to you being in melee range of them.
Copingsaw wrote:
Super K - The "Anti-Wipe"
You can also downrank Nova and CoC with no effect on their slowing/root effects AFAIK. The only issue with nova is that if the mob is out of melee with Krin while frozen, it's not going to be getting tank threat except from the consecrate ticks.
Normally that's enough though. Just a few seconds in that sucker and they'll be locked on. Somehow there's always one bugger that makes it through, and I'm thinking that's the one that'll need the root.
Copingsaw wrote:
Super K - The "Anti-Wipe"
love ya too Krin
Live Strong
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. ~ George Carlin