Big McCain Flailing Thread

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

It appears this forum needs a repository of McCain accusations for refutation.

Let's start it off with the latest:

Obama dissed wounded soldiers in Germany in order to go work out at the gym.

Discuss.

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Indecisive
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Funkenpants's picture

I've never liked or disliked McCain but have known republicans who have despised him. Now I'm beginning to understand why.

Accusing your opponent, and by extension his supporters, of a lack of patriotism is a real scumbag move. I guess he's always been apt to play this kind of game in the past but I never noticed.

Claw Shrimp
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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

I just want to get McCain's huge Shia/Sunni confusion in here early. It's just so important, particularly with the war we're in.

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, McCain has claimed that Iran (overwhelmingly Shiite) has been providing aid to Al Qaeda (overwhelmingly Sunni), or has suggested that Al Qaeda is Shiite, or has otherwise shown a total lack of understanding of the Shia/Sunni divide. He has made such mistakes on multiple non-consecutive occasions, which would suggest he didn't simply misspeak.

The distinction is important because it's the biggest problem with the "Iran is helping Al Qaeda" theory, which means it's probably the biggest obstacle to war with Iran.

I really liked McCain when he was the sharp maverick, the war veteran in the room full of chickenhawks, but now it seems like age and Bush's abuse have caught up with him.

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

Spore

Goin' Commando
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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL

Good piece on the McCain fiasco of messing up versus lying.

Quote:
If someone makes a false claim, it’s a little easier to get away with it the first time. He or she could always just claim ignorance: “Wait, he wasn’t caught in a compromising position with farm animals? Oh, I’d heard that he was. My mistake.”

When someone makes a false claim after he/she has been told it’s false, there’s less of an excuse. At that point, it goes from a mistake to a lie. It’s the difference between inadvertently misleading people and deliberately misleading people.

And John McCain is deliberately misleading people.

Quote:

McCain and his campaign repeated at least two lines of attack against Obama, which when first said in early July, were called “bogus,” “wrong,” “inflated” and “misleading” by independent fact checkers.

At his town hall today, McCain repeated that Obama wants to raise taxes on those making as little as $32,000 a year and in his campaign’s response to Obama’s event in Springfield, Mo., today, repeated that “…Obama’s bad judgment led him to vote in support of higher taxes 94 times….”

Now, I won’t bore you detailing all of the ways in which McCain is lying here. Instead, I’ll just farm this one out — the claim about raising taxes on those making as little as $32,000 a year is demonstrably false, and the claim about voting for higher taxes 94 times is just as ridiculous.

I bring this up, though, because I think the presumptive Republican nominee is offering up an opportunity to create a new campaign meme: “John McCain has a problem telling the truth.”

This might even work, if there’s a concerted push behind it. Reporters may be slowly realizing that this is a legitimate area of criticism — whether they’re willing to say so out loud or not — as evidenced by the MSNBC blog item mentioned above.

For that matter, reporters also seem to coming to the realization that McCain has become relentlessly negative as a candidate. The next natural step is to point out the obvious: McCain isn’t just launching negative attacks, he’s launching false negative attacks.

McCain lied about Obama snubbing the troops. We know it, he knows it, the media knows it. McCain lied about Obama’s economic policies. We know it, he knows it, the media knows it. McCain lied about coastal drilling offering “short-term” relief. McCain lied about Obama wanting to raise taxes on 23 million small businesses. McCain lied when he held Obama responsible for high gas prices. We know it, he knows it, the media knows it.

Arguing that McCain has become entirely negative is almost beside the point — a candidate can be negative and honest. In fact, I kind of expected to see McCain go after Obama for things that are true — Obama attended Jeremiah Wright’s church; he wants to end the war in Iraq; he’s only held elected office for 12 years, etc. If McCain wanted to go on the attack in a truthful way, he could.

But he’s following a different path. “John McCain has a problem telling the truth.” Tell your friends.

Me Love You Long Time
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Vector's picture
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This seems like bad karma.

McChuck wrote:

rabbit wrote:
Spaz wrote:
It's weird who you meat during ConSeason, aint it?

Paging douchebag community copyeditors on aisle 3. McChuck? Wordsmythe?

Oh, c'mon. You suck one c*ck and you're forever known as a c*cksucker.

Indecisive
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Quote:
For that matter, reporters also seem to coming to the realization that McCain has become relentlessly negative as a candidate.

That's my impression of him. Every time I see him on the news he's just complaining about something Obama did or isn't doing.

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Paleocon's picture
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It appears that McCain is more than happy to make this election a referrendum on Barack Obama. The problem with that is that he can't eat his cake and have it too. He can't exactly make it all about Obama and then complain that it is all about Obama.

It, however, doesn't stop him from trying.

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To Serve Man
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CannibalCrowley's picture
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

LobsterMobster wrote:
I just want to get McCain's huge Shia/Sunni confusion in here early. It's just so important, particularly with the war we're in.

So is knowing the number of states in one's country.

Goin' Commando
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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL

I'm trying to figure out what you are trying to say in your post but I am failing to see it. Want to clarify?

McCharles, If You're Nasty
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McChuck's picture
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Obama once said 57 states. No clue why, but as far as I know he didn't make that mistake again, unlike McCain's confusion between Sunni and Shia. Ones a solitary point and seems like the result of an uncooperative tongue. The other is a pattern.

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Goin' Commando
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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL

Ah. Never heard that one before. Yeah that would definitely be something that should be of concern.

Head Coach
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*Legion*'s picture
Location: Monterey County

McChuck wrote:
Obama once said 57 states. No clue why, but as far as I know he didn't make that mistake again

It's understandable. I often struggle to distinguish between subnational entities and Heinz varieties too.

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Claw Shrimp
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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

Obviously, Obama said 57 states because there are 57 Islamic states and he's a terrorist.

Now if you actually listen to the speech or even read the transcript you can see the lengthy pause between the "50" part and the "7" part that would suggest he misspoke (he meant to say forty-seven with one more to go, when referencing visiting the 48 continental states), but that doesn't stop his detractors from taking a jab at him over it. After all, they're getting kind of desperate for some reason to hate him other than that he's a liberal.

Desperate enough to suggest that this somehow absolves McCain of repeatedly confusing the Sunni and Shia. Otherwise I'm not sure why we're discussing it in a thread about McCain's missteps. I can be slow sometimes.

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

Spore

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LobsterMobster wrote:
Obviously, Obama said 57 states because there are 57 Islamic states and he's a terrorist.

Now if you actually listen to the speech or even read the transcript you can see the lengthy pause between the "50" part and the "7" part that would suggest he misspoke, but that doesn't stop his detractors from taking a jab at him over it. After all, they're getting kind of desperate for some reason to hate him other than that he's a liberal.

Desperate enough to suggest that this somehow absolves McCain of repeatedly confusing the Sunni and Shia. Otherwise I'm not sure why we're discussing it in a thread about McCain's missteps. I can be slow sometimes.

The explanation he gave was that he had actually just finished up visiting 47 of the lower 48 (with one to go), and caught himself in between 50 states and lower 48 (didn't visit AK or HI). That is certainly a very plausible explanation and hardly as egregious an error as confusing the Sunnis and Shiites or creating fictional borders between non-adjacent countries that are central to one's foreign policy.

As for the 57/47 transposition, I'd say it is almost as bad (but not quite) as the innocent and largely harmless mistake made by George H W Bush on September 7, 1988:

Quote:
This is Pearl Harbor Day. Forty-seven years ago to this very day, we were hit and hit hard at Pearl Harbor.
-- George H W Bush addressing the American Legion in Louisville, Kentucky (7 September 1988), three months prior to the actual anniversary of the bombing of Pearl Harbor (7 December 1941).

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Claw Shrimp
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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

Yeah, but Bush saying something stupid is hardly news.

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

Spore

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LobsterMobster wrote:
Yeah, but Bush saying something stupid is hardly news.

That was the smart Bush, not the dumb one.

This is the internet! In our natural environment, atheists run in packs and have dictionaries! --- JoeBeDurndurn

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LobsterMobster wrote:
Yeah, but Bush saying something stupid is hardly news.

No. That's Pappy Bush, not the current one.


Claw Shrimp
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LobsterMobster's picture
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Oh. My mistake. Ha ha, moron!

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

Spore

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One of my coworkers, upon viewing the McCain "celebrity" ad, made the very interesting observation that both Britney Spears and Paris Hilton are professed Republicans.

This is how I picture McCain's campaign staff.

This is the internet! In our natural environment, atheists run in packs and have dictionaries! --- JoeBeDurndurn

Claw Shrimp
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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

I understand where Paris is coming from. She never works, yet she's a hojillionaire. It's only natural that she therefore assume poor people are so lazy and irresponsible they spent all their money instead of hiring an accountant to manage their inherited fortune like a reasonable person.

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

Spore

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LobsterMobster wrote:
I understand where Paris is coming from. She never works, yet she's a hojillionaire. It's only natural that she therefore assume poor people are so lazy and irresponsible they spent all their money instead of hiring an accountant to manage their inherited fortune like a reasonable person.

You would think that better describes McCain.

This is the internet! In our natural environment, atheists run in packs and have dictionaries! --- JoeBeDurndurn

Ec0n Major
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Paleocon wrote:
One of my coworkers, upon viewing the McCain "celebrity" ad, made the very interesting observation that both Britney Spears and Paris Hilton are professed Republicans.

This is how I picture McCain's campaign staff.

I don't get the picture.

I don't want my President knowing who these two people are. They aren't even hip in the "trash celebrities" circle anymore. The advertisement was tacky and not Presidential.

For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988

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Ulairi wrote:

I don't get the picture.

I don't want my President knowing who these two people are. They aren't even hip in the "trash celebrities" circle anymore. The advertisement was tacky and not Presidential.

It's a demonstration of a Chinese style public execution. Sort of how I picture McCain disposing of his campaign staff every other week.

I just find it particularly funny that the ad featured to ardent GOP supporters as examples of how not to conduct one's self in public.

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Indecisive
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Ulairi wrote:
The advertisement was tacky and not Presidential.

I've been surprised at some of the stuff coming directly from McCain. Usually that kind of stuff shows up from people who on the periphery of the campaign or not connected to it. Pundits, talking heads, bloggers, etc.

Setting Fire to Reason
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Funkenpants wrote:
Ulairi wrote:
The advertisement was tacky and not Presidential.

I've been surprised at some of the stuff coming directly from McCain. Usually that kind of stuff shows up from people who on the periphery of the campaign or not connected to it. Pundits, talking heads, bloggers, etc.

That's what I've been curious about. A lot of bad, bad, bad ads, followed by McCain's mug and voice endorsing it. It's like he just rubber stamps whatever crosses his desk.

*Legion* recognizing greatness wrote:

You would have been correct. So correct as to stifle any further discussion in this thread.

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LilCodger wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:
Ulairi wrote:
The advertisement was tacky and not Presidential.

I've been surprised at some of the stuff coming directly from McCain. Usually that kind of stuff shows up from people who on the periphery of the campaign or not connected to it. Pundits, talking heads, bloggers, etc.

That's what I've been curious about. A lot of bad, bad, bad ads, followed by McCain's mug and voice endorsing it. It's like he just rubber stamps whatever crosses his desk.

This is almost precisely the same sort of foot-in-mouth disease that plagued the Billary campaign in the primaries. Is this the year of the incompetent campaign or does Obama possess some sort of Tiger Woods power in which his presence simply forces his opponents to triple bogey every ad campaign?

This is the internet! In our natural environment, atheists run in packs and have dictionaries! --- JoeBeDurndurn

Durn, Baby! Durn!
JoeBedurndurn's picture
Location: Bedurnville, OH

Is the flailing really hurting McCain with his base though? I've got to believe that there's a significant portion of his supporters that would readily fall into the 'if it was on TV it must be true' camp, so why not flail away for their benefit?


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JoeBedurndurn wrote:
Is the flailing really hurting McCain with his base though? I've got to believe that there's a significant portion of his supporters that would readily fall into the 'if it was on TV it must be true' camp, so why not flail away for their benefit?

He needs a whole lot more than his base to begin with. Additionally, he can't exactly rely on many parts of the traditional GOP base. At this point, the critical fight seems to be with the middle ground. Unfortunately for him, that middle ground is tremendously displeased with Bush and the Obama message equating McCain's stated policies with Bush's (which McCain needs to emphasize in order to keep the GOP base) seems to be eroding McCain's support among the "straight talk" moderates.

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Indecisive
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JoeBedurndurn wrote:
Is the flailing really hurting McCain with his base though?

McCain doesn't have a real base in the republican party. He emerged as kind of a candidate by default. Someone with name recognition at a time when the other candidates were either too controversial (Huckabee), distrusted by social conservatives (Romney) or too bored and lazy (Thompson).

I don't think the ads hurt him with republicans, however, because they simply repeat the same kind of attacks that Hillary used on Obama in the primaries and which seem to emerge from the right-wing blogosphere and pundit class on a daily basis.

Your Favorite Game is Dumb
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The "flailing" doesn't seem to matter much when it comes to poll numbers, which is something I find sort of frustrating.

People say that McCain doesn't have a base... and that many in the Republican party don't like him. But what are they going to do? Vote Obama? I've seen a few opinion pieces by confessed Republicans who seem to imply that they will, but I am certainly not going to count on that.

At this point, party affiliation is just like sports team loyalty... even if your team sucks, you still support them to the bitter end.

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