McCain and the USS Forrestal Fire
In July 1967, a rocket mounted on an A-4 on the flight deck of the USS Forrestal triggered a chain reaction of explosions and a fire that caused the deaths of 134 sailors.
It is known that John McCain was in one of the aircraft that was on deck at the time of the accident, waiting to take off. It is unclear if his was the aircraft struck by the rocket in question (it was either him or the guy next to him).
The linked wikipedia article claims that the rocket launched (but did not detonate) due to an electrical surge, that it struck the fuel tank of another aircraft (perhaps McCain's) and ignited it. The resulting fire caused other fuel tanks and bombs mounted on several aircraft to explode. The wiki also says McCain escaped by jumping out of his cockpit, walking along the nose of his aircraft, and jumping off the refueling probe, which would lead me to the conclusion that he is, in fact, a ninja. If events did unfold as described above, he is simply a very fortunate pilot.
Not everyone agrees that that's how it went down. I've started seeing rumors that McCain engaged in what is called a "wet start," when the engine is flooded with fuel to make for a very impressive fireball when the aircraft takes off. It's a stupid and dangerous thing to do but this would not be the first time a naval aviator did something stupid and dangerous with his aircraft. According to the rumor, it was the plume of flame created by this stunt that set off the rocket and started the chain reaction, which would make McCain directly responsible for the disaster.
Personally, I don't believe it. Sounds like the usual conspiracy theory/smear job that comes with a campaign season. Thought it might be worth discussion though.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
The good thing about conspiracy theories is that any contrary evidence can easily be explained away. Say the Navy report on the event didn't mention a "wet start." "So what?" the theorists say. "He was the son of an admiral. They couldn't blame it on him so he was left out of the report."
Again, I don't believe it either, but if they don't even know for sure which aircraft the rocket struck it'd be understandable if they missed a little detail like that.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
Funny how the rumors start 40 years after the fact... just when McCain is running for president, this is a pretty sleazy attempt to cast doubt on his record.
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
I would think that the level of inquiry into a accident such as that would have been pretty massive, and if McCain had messed up then, he would have been in trouble, its not like he had the juice he has now. Their has to be records of the inquiry into the accident, if McCain was in the wrong, those would have come out in the primary season.
If this was true it would've come up in the 2000 election no?
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They had better stuff then -- like his secret half-negro love child.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
maybe he was making his mulatto child when he should have been starting the plane, hence his distraction.
oo, i think i just came up with a new chain email.
A few years ago, I spoke with a guy who was on the deck in immediate proximity to the fire (because I wondered where he got his extensive scarring). He didn't mention a wet start, I don't think. His description was that the missile suddenly ignited under the wing of a plane - I'm sure he'd have mentioned a fireball start preceding it, if that had happened. He also described the incineration of a chief who had rushed the fire with a hose, but without a suit. Pretty rough stuff.
He did mention pilots exiting their planes at speed. I'm certain there was no walking of any kind. :-/
Note that this account does not describe any sort of boom or fireball prior to the missile firing off.
http://safetycenter.navy.mil/MEDIA/approach/theydidwhat/Forrestal.htm
If wishes were trees the trees would be falling, Listen to reason, Reason is calling
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I'm in agreement that such an act would have been discovered and properly dealt with. Not that I'm a huge McCain fan but I'm hardly surprised that such nonsense is being spread prior to the election.
I often wonder if the choices I made in Iraq would come back in some distorted form to haunt me in the future.
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did you father any mixed race children?
Gentlemen,
I was the ADCA aboard the USS RANGER (CV-61), a USS FORRESTAL class aircraft carrier. An ADCA is the Assistant Damage Control Assistant. One of the highest ranking firefighters aboard. I explain that to say that I have seen the 2 plus hour USS FORRESTAL fire movie at least 6 times. I have had the brief about it even more times.
That day most all planes on deck had ordinance i.e. missiles and or bombs. In a nut shell a plane in front of the Island was facing aft toward catapult 4 (John McCain’s plane was on Cat 4). Someone backed a turbine driven Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) from one plane and parked it basically back to back with a missile on the plane facing Cat 4. After a bit the super hot exhaust caused a sidewinder missile to take off and hit John McCain’s plane. It did not explode in high order but the plane burst into flames none the less. In the fire you can see John McCain exit the air craft to port and jump off the port wing into the LSO platform.
In a weird side note, John McCain’s Chief could not see him escape and attacked the raging fire with only a PKP fire extinguisher to save John McCain. After about four or five bursts from the PKP bottle the plane exploded violently. They only found the Chief’s boots when it was over. They named the aviation firefighting school in Pensacola Florida after that Navy Chief and John McCain was there for the dedication some years ago.
There were LOTs of bad moves made by many aboard and the lessons learned in fire fighting could fill a book from that fire.
I AM NOT a McCain supporter but I must say that I have never heard of any of those conspiracies about McCain until this year. He was just a pilot sitting in ready five and a rouge missile hit his plane.
Cheers,
Lone
Now the Field of Battle is a land of standing corpses;
Those determined to die will live;
Those who hope to escape with their lives will die. - Wu Chi
I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Commu... err...
No?
"If Blizzard announces a subscription fee for Diablo III we will have to build a second Internet to make room for all the complaining." - muttonchop
Well just try to avoid drowning any hookers in your car and you should be fine.
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Thanks for the post, Lone Sailor. Very informative.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
This wouldn't have happened if they made the missiles blue.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
This is the event described by the person I met. He was too far away to stop the guy, but understood the motivation.
If wishes were trees the trees would be falling, Listen to reason, Reason is calling
Your feet are going to be on the ground, Your head is there to move you around -- REM
Thanks for a great post, Lone.
If the account of the event is so well documented and protocoled, I agree with Nos that any attempt to cast it "what if it happened due to McCain's recklesness" light indeed smacks of certain degree of sleaziness.
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I don't have the insight to the incident that Lone Sailor does, but I have seen one of the documentaries on the Forrestal fire ("Situation Critical"), and it's pretty straightforward. I don't know where they're pulling the "evidence" for some of these conspiracy theories, but they don't seem to have any grounding in the events. I suppose I should also add that I'm not a McCain supporter either.
Is it possible to have an election that is about current issues, instead of Vietnam? Or did the shock of 9/11 stir up the trauma of the 60's and the backstabbing hippies for the boomer generation, and this sh*t will repeat endlessly until all of them die off?
At which point the subject will switch to Iraq and the backstabbing Liberals, I suppose.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
They are pulling it out of their butts. Man this election is going to get dirty. But which out of the two democrats to choose from?
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Tempest says: "A team hat doe snot communicate and talk to each other about what the next move will be is going to lose."
Mex is my hero = "f*ck it, I'll do it. WE'LL DO IT LIVE."
I bet "wet start" is, in this case, a euphemism.
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Still waiting for your requisite double entendre.
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I agree with so many of you all about the made up smear tactics. This USS FORRESTAL Fire is well documented and many witnesses are still alive to prove it.
Again, I am not a McCain supporter, but if the smear machine can make up such junk about a well documented event. I shutter to think about what will hit the fan when the “Keating Five” (spelling) and anything else comes up against McCain! It almost sounds like a Smear Feast 2008!
And that is just one side of the coin, I wonder what will be fired back? Holy Smokes!!
Cheers,
Lone
Now the Field of Battle is a land of standing corpses;
Those determined to die will live;
Those who hope to escape with their lives will die. - Wu Chi
Smear campaigns can work, though it doesn't make them any more appealing. Ask John Kerry, or McCain in 2000. I wouldn't call the Keating Five scandal off limits by anyone, though.
Somewhere on a deep ocean vent no man has ever seen, God smites a small colony of tube worms because you masturbate.-JoeBedurndurn, on sin
I think Keating would be fair territory. I, however, think the whole "secret negro love child" dealio was more than a bit over the line. If McCain doesn't have a concrete cell and manual on "stress positions" ready for Karl Rove, he's gutless.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
Late to the game but I agree with Lone Sailor, I've seen that video more times then I can count!
I don't think I've ever said this sentence before, but man would I love to hump that butterfly.-- KrazyTaco
One phone call and you're melting like butter over my kettle pop. -- Edwin to Mex
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I bet you can barely contain your excitement.
Elysium: The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid.
XBL: E Munnie
elementsofmeaning.blogspot.com