Fourth wall, we knew thee well
Dear Forth Wall,
I know our relationship has been tenuous at best over the years, but I've decided to do away with you entirely. I suggest we see other people, I'll be seeing all the popular kids (the gamers) and you can hang out with the drama club (the film industry). I hope things work out for you.
Sincerly,
Hideo Kojima
So playing MGS4 has got me thinking about the relevance of the fourth wall in video games. I've
heard some complaints about Kojima's complete disregard for this dusty partition, but for me it's one of the best parts of the series (then again I'm a big fan of meta humor).
My question is, does the fourth wall really have any place in video games? As it stands, the fourth wall in gaming is paper-thin, and always will be. So long as the player has any say in the actions they can willfully break the forth wall by making their character do something that makes no sense (like stripping down to nothing and running about the mountain tops in Oblivion, or running around in a circle and shooting directly into the ground in any FPS). The forth wall simply doesn't have the same weight or importance in the realm of interactive entertainment that it does in completely scripted media.
So should we even be concerned with keeping up the appearances of the forth wall in gaming?
I hate you soo much Phil Collins!
Pharacon wrote:
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PSN = AmazingZoidberg



I'm kinda fond of Fourth Wall. He is like a good friend who keeps you sedated with drugs and booze so you can forget who you really are and let your inner warrior ravage the world of your dreams. Something that would otherwise seem silly or even childish.
I think there are games (Call of Duty 4 and Half Life 2 are the ones that are coming to mind) where forcing the player through the fourth wall like MGS tends to would break any sense of immersion in the experience. There's an important distinction to be made between games like MGS which break the wall for you (think Psychomantis) and games where it can be done by choice (the examples in your penultimate paragraph). There's this great "caught up in the moment" feeling of intensity that these games can have, and this feeling is sustained in part because of an unspoken agreement between you and the game that you will both accept the illusion and neither of you are going willfully break it.
This is not to say that there can't be great benefits to smashing the fourth wall, merely that, in the moment it is broken, something ephemeral is lost.
XBL: fourdswisschees | Steam: 4dSwissCheese
I agree with everyone.
XBL Gamertag: Effin Bear | PSN Name: Effin Bear | Steam ID: MechaSlinky | Wii Console Code: 5185 2886 9649 1657 | Spore: MechaSlinky
I'm right there with 4d actually. I like that games like CoD4 don't break that wall, but at the same time it's the very thing I love about the MGS series.
So really I'm good either way as long as the game's fun.
XBLive: Thin J
PSN: Thin_J
I don't imagine master craftsmen leaping away from completed projects and shouting "Done, motherf*ckers! - 1Dgaf
The "fourth wall" is an inherently inappropriate term for use with games. Unlike in movies or plays, you are not simply observing independent actors in a cross-section of their environment, as if the proverbial fourth wall had been sawed off their surroundings and they have somehow failed to notice. In games, you are the actor who has the choice of whether or not to disregard the inherent artificiality around you. There's actually a popular term for this, it's called the "magic circle".
Viewers of film and plays notice immediately when the fourth wall is broken, as if they've been spotted eavesdropping on a private conversation. However engaging in the magic circle involves a tacit complicity with the system, so even if the system references its own artificiality this won't break the magic circle.
The Wikipedia page on the topic isn't great but here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Circle_(synthetic_worlds)
I'm fine with it as long as it's tastefully done and serves a purpose, a la MGS, BioShock or Eternal Darkness. Once it becomes a common trend though it becomes annoying and abused, I don't want my NPC's constantly winking at the camera.
I would think the first rule of PR is to ignore forum people, because they vacillate between crazy and liar. - Elysium
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, or a right way to use the 4th wall. It just depends on the narrative, and what the storyteller wants to convey.
xbl y3llow5 | steam yellow#5 | PSN ForrestTheWicked
Possible spoiler alert and all, but what part of Bioshock was breaking the forth wall?
I hate you soo much Phil Collins!
Pharacon wrote:
PSN = AmazingZoidberg
For clarification, read this article.
I would think the first rule of PR is to ignore forum people, because they vacillate between crazy and liar. - Elysium
Nevermind...
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last.fm: JayhawkerGWJ
The part in Bioshock where Otacon calls you up and tells you to change discs.
What if the game was all about the player character and the NPCs around him or her dealing with this intrusive control the player was given over their world and the player character's actions specifically? Sort of like that movie where Will Ferrel is the character in a woman's novel. Stranger Than Fiction, I think. What if it was that, but in game form? There was a Daffy Duck game for DS that did this a while back, as well. I suppose, however, this isn't winking at the camera as much as it is being genuinely concerned at the camera's presence in their lives.
I agree that games that break the fourth wall or puncture this magic circle or whatever you want to call it, simply for the sake of comedy, repeatedly and consistently, do wear thin. I've played a number of RPG Maker games that are supposed to be comedy games where all they do is emulate generic JRPGs while pointing out that what they're doing is generic JRPG stuff that would seem quite silly in the real world. It gets tiring very, very quickly. Bard's Tale also did this. It was initially hilarious, but then it became quite clear that this was the only joke it offered, as if that made up for it's stale gameplay.
XBL Gamertag: Effin Bear | PSN Name: Effin Bear | Steam ID: MechaSlinky | Wii Console Code: 5185 2886 9649 1657 | Spore: MechaSlinky
The Fourth wall, like narration, cut scenes, scripting etc is a tool for the developer to use as he/she sees fit. Respecting or breaking the wall needs to be implemented appropriately in context of the game.
If breaking the fourth wall is the only thing the game has to offer it is like a FPS with one gun and one corridor, might be fun for a short while, but won't offer any kind of extended experience.
kuddles wrote:
I tend to presume the Magic Circle, and feel cheated unless it's broken intentionally and artfully.
Elysium: The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid.
XBL: E Munnie
elementsofmeaning.blogspot.com
Oh I agree with that. That's why I mention implementation, it shouldn't be done 'just because' neither should cut-scenes or scripted events, it should be something used as a last resort for effect.
I never picked up the Bioshock one, and if it was deliberate, it was genius.
kuddles wrote: