Telecom immunity
Friday, June 20th, 2008 - 9:59am
Looks like the telecoms are going to get off the hook for the NSA's warrantless wiretapping.
Remember: this conversation is just between you and me ... and the NSA.
MaverickDago wrote:
Only commies pee "urine" or the devils cocktail as we call it, real Americans exude cold crisp light beer.



I think FISA needs to have more oversight, not less. We should always take Nixon as the guiding example of why oversight over the intel part of the Executive Branch is necessary (and Reagan and Bush as well, but Nixon was the biggest abuser of domestic intel.) Ah well, the pendulum will swing back with the next over-reach.
If wishes were trees the trees would be falling, Listen to reason, Reason is calling
Your feet are going to be on the ground, Your head is there to move you around -- REM
This makes me sick to my stomach.
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Nobody will fault the Telecoms because someday they might need them to break the law, too. A wink and a slap on the wrist, at most.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
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This is bad.
I do not approve.
Gamer Tag -- Edgar Newt
It's done. The Wall Street Journal approves. The Washington Post doesn't even mention telecom immunity. I suggest GnuPG if you don't like your communications overseas being monitored.
Remember: this conversation is just between you and me ... and the NSA.
MaverickDago wrote:
Wanker of the day indeed. Total betrayal of what is suppose to happen.
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This sentence grabbed me. Oh how I love this political spin BS. If she didn't believe in it, she shouldn't have voted for it. Voting for it and expecting some sort of sympathy because you still thought it was wrong shows how little integrity you really have.
"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca
Agreed. I never liked her once I found out that impeachment was off the table.
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I hate that things are turning back into "vote for the lesser of two evils". For a long while, I'd been really jazzed about how Obama was seemingly changing how politics were done in Washington. Now, with this and other issues, he's just turning into the same old politician who'll say things to keep from not getting elected.
*sigh* I'd been excited about finally getting my American citizenship paperwork underway (I'm a Canadian citizen), and now... not so much. Oh well.
I accrue pens like Hefner accrues bimbos. -- duckideva
I agree on the balls. Not a fan of the balls. -- wordsmythe asserting himself in OOC Theater
You're going to see a lot of this kind of thing from Obama. The guy is playing the game to win, and he's going to pick his battles on security carefully. It will be interesting to see just how irritated the left becomes with him over the next five months. Note this in the quoted material:
Obama has obviously calculated that sacrificing the rule of law and the Fourth Amendment is a worthwhile price to pay to bolster his standing a tiny bit in a couple of swing states.
Certainly this is true. But it's true that if Obama doesn't bolster his standing in swing states he could lose the election. Is it worth surrendering telecom immunity if it means ensuring that McCain isn't able to create a supreme court majority filled with hardcore right wingers?
Ideally, one shouldn't have an effect on the other. There have been a lot of Democrats who are in red districts who opposed telecom immunity and have still won their elections.
Pragmatically, you have a point. I'd rather see Obama win and be able to make the next bout of appointments to the Supreme Court that will re-balance the makeup of the judiciary. I just wish THIS weren't one of the issues where he dropped the ball.
I accrue pens like Hefner accrues bimbos. -- duckideva
I agree on the balls. Not a fan of the balls. -- wordsmythe asserting himself in OOC Theater
Long term view couldn't Obama put a couple of democratic-leaning judges on the Supreme Court and then when the case against this law works it way there the court strikes this law down?
If this immunity issue is important to you, then do not vote to re-elect the incumbent congressional members that approved it, or even volunteer for the opposition's campaign.
Obama tries to make good?
More here
" Did my love gun hit you?" -Gaald to Certis while playing Sins of the Solar Empire.
This one is really tearing me up as I would like to support Obama without reservation but this is stone cold political maneuvering at it's worst. The only thing I can think of is that the average joe hasn't followed this at all and if he were to follow though on his promise to oppose this then the Republicans can come up with a neat sound bite (requiring little explanation or fact) to beat him with. Very disappointed to say the least ...
"An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war." Twain
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While it's convenient to center the grievance with the bill's version on Obama, it would do well if everyone contacted their own Senators as well.
Xbox Live tag Gorilla800lbs
So, I'm not completely aware of everything that happened in regards to the topic of this thread, but from my understanding...
The phone companies, under "orders" from the President, helped him tap phone calls of American Citizens without proper warrants.
I guess my question is, if what the phone companies did is illegal and they should be punished for it, why the hell isn't the President being punished? He's the one that ordered the illegal taps? Yeah, its all great to take down the phone companies, but what about the top dog, the one who orchastrated it all?
Chumpy wrote:
Malor wrote:
Because, per Pelosi and Reid, "impeachment is off the table", which... whatever.
I accrue pens like Hefner accrues bimbos. -- duckideva
I agree on the balls. Not a fan of the balls. -- wordsmythe asserting himself in OOC Theater
I contacted my senator first time this bill was going around. I told him the constitution was VERY clear about this issue and that considering the president can pardon any single criminal that he sees fit, I could find no reason to provide blanket immunity to a group of people who may have committed a crime.
In the reply letter, I was essentially told that my senator trusted the president on this issue.
I repeat, this all makes me sick to my stomach. I can't describe how utterly WRONG all this unchecked power leaves me feeling.
Control Point: A Team Fortress 2 Podcast
WARP: A Warhammer Online Podcast
http://www.deadworkers.com/network
Also, realize that civil-liberties folks have been stymied, stonewalled, and "state secret"-ed out of every attempt to investigate the Bush administration. Because most of the Democrats in Congress are essentially working for Bush at this point, there's no recourse that way - which leaves court cases. This telecom thing is a chink in the wall they have put up, which is why the telecoms are being pursued so vigorously; if they can be forced to reveal details of what went on, it could open real investigations into the many, many illegal things the Bush administration has allegedly done.
Remember: this conversation is just between you and me ... and the NSA.
MaverickDago wrote:
And the company that refused to play the game was dropped from the competition for several lucrative contracts. They are the ones who sacrificed.
If wishes were trees the trees would be falling, Listen to reason, Reason is calling
Your feet are going to be on the ground, Your head is there to move you around -- REM
I did the same thing. Both of my Senators stood against the telecoms immunity the first time around, and re-affirmed their resolve to fight the retroactive immunity and no-warrant provisions of the FISA bill demanded by the White House. Let's see how things go today on the Senate floor.
Xbox Live tag Gorilla800lbs
And the right will mention the ACLU in the same breath as the Taliban and Hamas. Best way to avoid a question is to make it treason to ask, I guess.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
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Called my Senators this morning, like Mitch McConnell gives a sh*t but I called anyway.
Found this comic on the subject rather funny.
http://www.overcompensating.com/posts/20080623.html
"You just checked in to Hotel Califoni-getyourasskicked!" Steely Dan said to The Eagles
I wrote, called, and faxed my senator (Bill Nelson FL) and he replied with this.
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Well, it's all one big happy family. It's not Republicans vs. Democrats - it's politicians vs. the people.
This angers me greatly.
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Just got word from the EFF that the Senate vote has been delayed until after the July 4th break!
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/06/senate-delays-vote-immunity
So is it just me being silly or does anyone think that the Democrats are simply trying to delay this without letting any of their constituents look soft on terrorism? I mean any House member can say "I passed the FISA bill" and any Senate member can say "I passed the FISA bill" and they're both telling the truth, yet it still doesn't get passed. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic wishing the Democrats aren't as spineless as they appear.
"You just checked in to Hotel Califoni-getyourasskicked!" Steely Dan said to The Eagles