It's been over two years since I've upgraded, and lately with games like AoC and Crysis I figure I'm about ready to take the plunge again. I usually cheap out and hang around the mid-mark with price/performance and end up with a somewhat crappy case and power supply, but this time around I plan on spending more on stuff that will last, and a top of the line video card.
I'm still a bit rusty on all the new tech but I've been doing a lot of reading. Things I'm still unsure of are what RAM speed I should be looking for, and how important the CPU is in the equation - I'd rather put more money into the graphics card if that's the case. I don't plan on extreme overclocking or liquid cooling, but I wouldn't mind overclocking reasonably if it's possible on fan cooling. I know case style is pretty subjective, the UFO one is kinda out there, but I like it because it provides a lot of ventilation and has a ton of room. Any recommendations are definitely appreciated!
Questions:
- Is RAM speed only important for extreme overclocking?
- Is there any benefit to getting more than a middle of the road CPU?
- Is there any benefit going to 8GB RAM with Vista, or should the standard 4GB be sufficient?
- I know running 2x 8800GTS in SLI is the best price/performance, but would the below cards be future proofed somewhat for SLI?
- Is a 750w power supply adequate for running the said cards, in addition to a couple of hard drives and a bunch of fans?
Goals:
- Have a modular case that I can utilize for another upgrade two years down the road.
- Have a case that provides incredible cooling and ventilation, while not sounding extremely loud.
- Have a video card that is SLI capable for future upgrades.
Case
Coolermaster CM830 Evo Stacker ($235)
Power Supply
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad 750W ATX ($159)
Motherboard
ASUS P5K-E P35 ($170)
CPU
Intel E8400 ($229)
Memory
GSkill F2-8000CL5D PC2-8000 4GB 2x2GB DDR2-1000 CL5-5-5-15 ($99)
Video Card
Nvidia GTX280 ($599) - Released in June
Monitor
Dell 2408FPW 24" ($599)
Hard Drive
Western Digital Velociraptor ($325)
lethial's technique is completely foreign to me.
What I was taught, by an electronics tech, was that you want an extremely thin layer of goop over the entire surface of the die. It needs to be so thin it's almost transparent, because you're just filling in microscopic gaps. Anyplace you can get metal directly on metal, that's better than metal on goop on metal -- but metal on air on metal is really bad. So you want enough goop to just fill in the tiny holes, without interfering with the contact on the parts that do touch.
From what I can see, lethial's technique will give you too much in the center, and will interfere with contact on the edge, so I would suggest not doing it that way. For best temperatures and best life, a uniform, barely visible layer should serve you best.
Staats wrote:
It turns out that "starting" and "stopping" is a "feature" of ASUS motherboards each time you plug in the power supply. If I turn it off via holding power button, it simply "boots once".
I noticed the mobo came with a 4 pin connector with a little pc speaker built into it, I attached it to where the HDD LED, Power Button cables etc as per instructions. Still no beep error code at all - the system turns on, and as of now has been running with no problems, all fans going, nothing funky. The only problem is, it still won't bloody POST! Nothing on the screen.
I made sure my screen was detecting a signal, made sure I wasn't making a rookie mistake of having it on anything other than DVI. I tried the other video card and same thing.
All the jumper settings seem factory default too, nothing funky there.
XBL/PSN/STEAM
Malor, the reason for that vertical line is because the C2D cores are aligned that way under the heatspreader. So you are guaranteed good coverage of the actual core.
By letting the pressure of the HS and the heatspreader of the CPU do the "spreading" of paste, you also reduce the chance of air gaps created due to some imperfection on the surfaces of either the HS or the heatspreader.
That technique is recommended from Arctic Silver and other thermal paste companies.
Swat, what monitor do you have? Try the other DVI port on your gfx card. I actually have experienced something similar and resolved it by using the other DVI port.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Yeah I can second Lethial's method.. thats pretty much the way I do my thermal paste.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
85's face the truth you're too dumb.
http://www.myspace.com/armyofthepharaohs
Well, while we're on the subject, I've got to ask -- my CPU (E8500) didn't come with any thermal paste. I figured that meant I didn't really need it, so I didn't apply any when I built my PC a few weeks ago. Would it be wise to apply some decent paste, even to go with the stock cooler?
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
In the store RMA this puppy as we speak.
XBL/PSN/STEAM
You are using the stock cooler right? The stock cooler actually should have a layer of generic thermal paste pre-applied on the bottom already, IIRC.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
How about this? Test your vid card in your wife's machine and test your wife's ram in your machine.
What is the temperature of your CPU, rottingCC? And what are you using to monitor the temperature?
realtemp is supposed to be the most accurate C2D temperature monitor.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Well, progress at least.
When powered up, I hear the post beeps. It beeped 3 times when I took out my RAM (expected) and once when it was in, which I can assume is the default power on beep.
Still no video. Tried my card, my wife's card, zero video signal. Tried both PCI-EX slots. Tried her RAM in my machine. At this point the only thing that hasn't been tested is the CPU really. Are there issues with E8400's and certain Bios?
I'm racking my brain here, this is all new equipment and I haven't had near this amount of trouble on a new build before.
I think I'm going to bring my whole box to the store and see what they can do, I'm sure they will be stoked. Or I could just keep RMA'ing everything or simply go with a new motherboard until something sticks. Arrrgh.
XBL/PSN/STEAM
Have you tried the new video card in your wife's box?
Jonathan Coulton wrote:
Swat, don't RMA yet. What monitor do you have? Use the DVI-Analogue adapter to connect to the monitor via the analogue vga port.
Or try another monitor.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Tried, but not enough room, that sucker's too big. Lethial, I did try on both our monitors as well, both DVI ports on each.
So I went back for the second time today, brought my whole system in. The tech hooks up the meter to the power supply and says lol your power supply is screwed, let me get you a new one. Apparently the voltage was all over the place and way too low to power the card/system. I put in the new one at the store, and we tested it out. Sure enough, it hit post, so that was a big relief. I guess using my wife's 550w wasn't adequate enough to power the 4870x2 when I was testing if the problem was the power supply, so I just assumed it was still something else. Ironically enough I got the PC Power and Cooling one because I wanted a bullet proof power supply.
Thanks for all the help everyone, after about 14 hours of diagnosis I'm glad it's all over
(Knock on wood)
XBL/PSN/STEAM
Wahoo! 'grats. I'm going out to pick up a 4850 tonight to celebrate for you!
Jonathan Coulton wrote:
Woot! Been a while since I've been an ATI dude, here's hoping the drivers are tight.
XBL/PSN/STEAM
congratz swat! Yeah PSU is definitely very important part of the system. I usually keep a spare myself.
But anyway, enjoy the gaming fun!
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
In my experience, power supplies are the component I've seen fail the most, followed by motherboards. The most recent thing I've seen go bad was some RAM, which surprised me, because I always used to hear people say that RAM almost never goes bad.
Quote:
- Legion, keeping it frighteningly in the family.
---
The littlest fremen.
PCPAC will treat you very well, in my experience, if you call them up and tell them what the problem was.
One thought: is the voltage switch set wrong?
Another thought: 550's plenty for a quadcore with a normal video card, but you might want 650 for a 4870x2.
Staats wrote:
This sounds like a possibility, particularly if the voltages are fluctuating wildly. If it is, that is at least better than the alternative - you could do what I did and plug it in the other way around (jacked in to 240 with the switch still set on 110).
Maybe I'll be cool and celebrate by picking up a 4870! Then we've got the 48XX spectrum covered between the three of us.
Now to figure out if my generic 550W power supply will provide enough juice to run one...
Coldstream wrote:
That is actually really good temps. I take it you didn't OC?
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Steam ID: RottingCatCarcass
Xbox Live: Deathbird69
Playstation Network: The_Deathbird
BSOD? uh-oh. So as to not derail this thread, maybe you should create a thread about your plight, and I am sure some of us could help (or at least try to
)
Unless you got some high speed memory with Micron chips and run them at 2.2V (recommended, by the manufacturer, voltage for getting the PC-1066 speed actually) and that the heatsink that came with it actually warps outwards over time so part of the memory chips are not making contacts to it anymore
(I only mention this, because it was a real problem with some of the Crucial Ballistix DDR2s, which btw, is one of the best OC Ram out there. )
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:
Thanks for the tip on the realtemp Lethial, I'll be sure to get that when I get home.
XBL/PSN/STEAM
OH yeah some bios(es) need a flash to use the E8400 aka the bios might not be up to date.
Actually, my failed RAM might have been Ballistix. I know I've owned some recently. It all kind of runs together once you become a laptop gamer, though. I've only got one functional desktop these days, which is an oddity.
Quote:
- Legion, keeping it frighteningly in the family.
---
The littlest fremen.
You should check it out to make sure. Check out the pictures here from Clunk's seems that for some of the ballistix memories, the heatsink warps outwards.
Even though they are awesome OC memory, they get real hot, esp. if you run them according to the recommended 2.2V. If you don't OC, you can run it with 1.9V - 2.0V with no problem at PC -800 or above speed.
Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote: