Anyone own a Hybrid Vehicle?

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Dramatic Marlin's picture
Location: From Canada, with Cool

I will be leasing or purchasing a new vehicle in the next month. Since I moved to the Vancouver area I have a much longer commute to work (about 35km one way). I am concerned about my carbon footprint with that commute and, coupled with the ever increasing price of gas (hovering around $1.35/L right now), I am looking more seriously at a hybrid vehicle.

I have read some stories online about the batteries having a lifespan of approximately 120-130k kilometers. I don't have any specific details on this and would like to know more -- this could influence whether I would buy or lease.

Does anyone own a hybrid? Anyone have any experience with one? I'm considering the Camry Hybrid as I have 3 kids (2 in car seats) so a very small vehicle isn't really an option for me.

Thanks!

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Dramatic Marlin wrote:
I will be leasing or purchasing a new vehicle in the next month. Since I moved to the Vancouver area I have a much longer commute to work (about 35km one way). I am concerned about my carbon footprint with that commute and, coupled with the ever increasing price of gas (hovering around $1.35/L right now), I am looking more seriously at a hybrid vehicle.

I'm sorry, I can't deal with metric units. You're gonna have to convert to imperial units. How much is that gas per gill?

We just recently got the Camry hybrid (we got a sweet deal on a lease transfer, so we're only paying $250/month). It's very plushly appointed with leather seats, GPS, sunroof. I've never had such a nice car.

I don't know much about battery life in hybrids, but I've heard they are lasting longer than anticipated.

we get about 76 hectares per dram errr... I mean 35 miles per gallon with city driving, which I think is an improvement over a standard Camry, however my parents got a Prius which gets about 50 MPG, so not terribly exciting economy wise.

We have a newborn, so one side of the back is occupied. It's pretty spacious in the cabin. Expect to feel cramped in the trunk due to the batteries, especially if you have to tote around strollers. 2 smallish strollers will probably fit, but then you'll probably only have room for a one or two omers of milk.

Performance wise, the acceleration is a bit lacking, but it feels solid on the road, and the ride is pretty quiet.

I think you'll find yourself pretty cramped if you have 3 kids and your spouse. As a car for commuting in the city, it's been great for us, but with two kids I think it would be a stretch. I think there are some standard engine cars in this size with decent fuel econdomy, like perhaps the Honda Fit.

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My dad has owned both Priuses, and he has had nothing but good experiences with them. You don't get as much of a mileage gain commuting on highways with them - something like 50 MPG (around 21 kilometers per liter, I think? Is that how you measure mileage in Canada?). I know he's got over 150,000 miles (about 240,000 kilometers) on his new one and the battery hasn't given out on him yet, but who knows, he might just be lucky.

Acceleration isn't the greatest, but it's a nice car if gasoline usage is more important to you than horsepower. It's got Bluetooth and GPS and backup cameras and all the cool stuff that new cars should have. It's also very quiet, which is nice.

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Dramatic Marlin wrote:
I will be leasing or purchasing a new vehicle in the next month. Since I moved to the Vancouver area I have a much longer commute to work (about 35km one way). I am concerned about my carbon footprint with that commute and, coupled with the ever increasing price of gas (hovering around $1.35/L right now), I am looking more seriously at a hybrid vehicle.

I have read some stories online about the batteries having a lifespan of approximately 120-130k kilometers. I don't have any specific details on this and would like to know more -- this could influence whether I would buy or lease.

Does anyone own a hybrid? Anyone have any experience with one? I'm considering the Camry Hybrid as I have 3 kids (2 in car seats) so a very small vehicle isn't really an option for me.

Thanks!

35km one way non-stop highway or stop and go highway/city? Hibrids are the kings of stop and go, but on the Highway they loose to just about anything. A $12k Civic will get you 40ish on the Highway, the same Hibrid won't, and it will cost you twice as much. Look at the new American EPA numbers, Hibrids didn't fare too well once the tests changed, and even then people say their claims are overrated. Toyota used to (before the nuew numbers) give a disclaier that just because it said X on the estimated EPA THEY (Toyota) were not making that claim.

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Shoal07 wrote:
Hibrids are the kings of stop and go, but on the Highway they loose to just about anything.

Depending on how you drive, a Prius will still get you 45-50 MPG on the highway, as opposed to 55-60 MPG in the city. If you go really fast, it's closer to 40 MPG. It's worse than the city, but it still beats most cars at highway driving.

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merzy's picture

Shoal07 wrote:
35km one way non-stop highway or stop and go highway/city? Hibrids are the kings of stop and go, but on the Highway they loose to just about anything. A $12k Civic will get you 40ish on the Highway, the same Hibrid won't, and it will cost you twice as much.

To be polite, that's not my experience.

2004 Civic Hybrid. 80K on it so far, no problem with the batteries. I paid, new, about 3K more for it than the comparable non-hybrid version; certainly not twice as much. It's a commuter car, (I'm certainly not expecting it to rock my head back when I floor it) so I didn't really notice much difference in handling between the hybrid and non- versions. The interior is exactly the same between the models. (except for the lack of the drivetrain bump in the back seat.)

My commute is 30 miles each way, averaging 40mph on the way in with a few stops and 80mph (or so. ahem.) on the way out with none.
I average 41 MPG on a bad tank.

With 4 dollar gas and keeping it for 4 years so far, picking the hybrid was a good bet.

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This past weekend I drove in an older Prius from central Indiana to northern Ohio (about 280 miles or so) on a little less that 5 gallons of gas. The majority of that was highway driving somewhere between 65-75 mph. Also, compared to a sports car the acceleration isn't great, but if you look at it as a compact car it is quite good. So, I think that it is quite nice for increasing gas prices.

One thing to be aware of though and something that you may want to look into if you are seriously considering a hybrid to reduce your personal environmental impact would be to see if you can find out how eco-friendly the production process for the cars that you are looking at. Obviously to produce such high-tech engines and more specifically the batteries for the hybrids some nasty chemicals can come out of the process and you'd want to check how those chemicals are disposed of. Or if you just are interested in the gas you'd be saving that's good to, but just be aware that your environmental impact goes beyond the pump.

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indy wrote:
Dramatic Marlin wrote:
I will be leasing or purchasing a new vehicle in the next month. Since I moved to the Vancouver area I have a much longer commute to work (about 35km one way). I am concerned about my carbon footprint with that commute and, coupled with the ever increasing price of gas (hovering around $1.35/L right now), I am looking more seriously at a hybrid vehicle.

I'm sorry, I can't deal with metric units. You're gonna have to convert to imperial units. How much is that gas per gill?

Since the dollar is roughly on par, about $5.10 USD/gallon.

Switchbreak wrote:
something like 50 MPG (around 21 kilometers per liter, I think? Is that how you measure mileage in Canada?).

It's liters/100Km here - really rolls off the tongue. My fuel deficient FX45 is averaging 15.1l/100Km (15.5 mpg), which with gas prices around here is working out to roughly $0.20/Km and $95 to fill the pig up.

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I've read and been told that the lifespan of the batteries in a Hybrid, specifically the Prius, is about 2 years. And the replacement cost is pretty high, several thousand dollars.
So, if you're looking at Hybrid as a way to save money on gas, does it really save you money if you spend a few thousand dollars in a lump every 2-3 years on batteries as opposed to spreading it out on your weekly fuel-ups?

Does anyone have a hybrid that hasn't needed new batteries after 2-3 years?
Shed some light, as I've been interested as well.

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duckilama wrote:
Does anyone have a hybrid that hasn't needed new batteries after 2-3 years?

My father's Prius is a 2004 model, and it hasn't needed a battery yet. Checking Wikipedia real quick shows that Toyota claims the batteries have a 15-year lifespan, though obviously none have been on the market long enough to test the claim. They have an 8-year, 100,000 mile warranty as well, apparantly.

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inspiringsn's picture
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duckilama wrote:
Does anyone have a hybrid that hasn't needed new batteries after 2-3 years?
Shed some light, as I've been interested as well.

The car that I referred to earlier is my father's and he's had it for at least 4 years with out any major issues as far as I know.

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I own a Ford Escape Hybrid, which I absolutely love. It gets 30-32 MPG on Highway and 36-38 in city driving.

We haven't had any issues yet, but the car is just over a year old.

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duckilama wrote:
Does anyone have a hybrid that hasn't needed new batteries after 2-3 years? Shed some light, as I've been interested as well.

4 years on my Civic, no battery issues. I was told "100,000 miles or we'll replace 'em for free".

Not to pick on you, but we seem to be getting a lot of negative rumor floating around this thread. The contrast to the positive tone of the actual experiences related is pretty stark.

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My experience with 2 Priuses (one was totaled by an asshole...can I say that?) is very positive. We get about 45 mpg on the current 2006 car on average, mostly highway-ish driving. That can be 50 mpg. The 2005 version we had did better for some reason, averaging 50 mpg, more in the summer. On the 5-hour highway only trip we took before it was totalled, we got 52 mpg!

Hybrids can do quite well in city driving, but they can also do quite well on the highway. The big issue on the highway is air resistance (drag), which increases as the square of your velocity, so you can see your mileage creeping downward as you go faster. Plus, they have to use a larger contribution from the combustion engine as you go faster.

Ours has a warranty (either 8 or 10 years) that covers everything associated with the hybrid system, including the battery. The combustion engine power train warranty is a bit less, if I remember.

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merzy wrote:
Not to pick on you, but we seem to be getting a lot of negative rumor floating around this thread. The contrast to the positive tone of the actual experiences related is pretty stark.

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merzy wrote:
duckilama wrote:
Does anyone have a hybrid that hasn't needed new batteries after 2-3 years? Shed some light, as I've been interested as well.

Not to pick on you, but we seem to be getting a lot of negative rumor floating around this thread. The contrast to the positive tone of the actual experiences related is pretty stark.

Well, I trusted the person that did the research that led to that perception.
It's not like I just saw it on a forum and believed it.
I prefaced it with a generic "Here's what I've heard" and ended it with a request for informed clarification.

If I/we can't throw concerns(valid, considering the age of the tech) to folks we trust more than the general intertron population, where should we go for discussion about them?

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I don't have a detailed analysis of my gas mileage hybrid vs non hybrid because I went from a 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix to a 2007 Prius, needless to say my gas mileage doubled.

The Prius is a fine car and has more space than you would think. It has a little more acceleration potential than most 4 cylinder cars I've driven as well.

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My coworker used to drive a Prius. I don't remember how many years he had it before it conked out; when presented with a $4000 bill to replace a single part, he sold it and bought something else. I'll see if I can get the specifics.

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If your concern is the carbon footprint, hybrids and electrics are not really a solution. Most of our power in North America is from coal burning plants, more electricity=more burned coal.

If the concern is the cost of fuel, you need to remember that the cost of a hybrid is much more than a high efficiency vehicle (Smart Car, Camry, Pontiac Vibe, Honda Civic) which can achieve as good or better efficiency than hybrids. You could spend considerably less money on a Ford Focus/Fusion or a Civic, get 30-35 miles to the gallon, over a very expensive hybrid which gets 40 to the gallon.

The added problem is that you are in the snowy white north. It is not as if you can use a scooter or motorcycle for 8,9,10 months out of the year like even I can in the Midwestern US.

For most folks, I would say that the best of both worlds, fuel efficiency and cost, would be a look at a used Honda dealer and grab a Civic. You are not going to pay sportscar prices for a sedan, and you will get great fuel economy out of it.

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KingGorilla wrote:
If your concern is the carbon footprint, hybrids and electrics are not really a solution. Most of our power in North America is from coal burning plants, more electricity=more burned coal.

Hybrids don't get their electricity from power plants, coal burning or otherwise; you're thinking of a plug-in electric car. They reclaim power that is lost while driving (through braking or other means) and store it in the battery, leading to more efficient use of the gas power.

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Regardless, NONE of these cars get anywhere NEAR these numbers unless you drive them smart. I have a roadster and I can either get 25mpg or 18 mpg, depending on how stupid I want to drive that day. Also, it's important to love the car. Gas prices or no, I don't like any of the current hybrid designs. Maybe someday, but right now I'm not your typical sedan owner. I commute around 2-3 hours/45mi round trip each day. Yeah, I use a lot of gas, but for that much time in a car I have to LOVE it, not like it. And anything outside the mid-20 mpg range is not really pegging my personal love meter. I mean, if you're going to be in it, love it.

PS - You would have to cut my legs off to get me to sell an FX45 - If you own one of those you can afford the gas prices.

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Dramatic Marlin's picture
Location: From Canada, with Cool

This is good feedback and insight folks, thank you.

We are returning our minivan and keeping my current commuter vehicle, a Suzuiki Grand Vitara -- not a huge vehicle by any stretch. I have three kids, two in car seats - although optimistically one will go to a booster seat later this year which will help. I am not looking for a LOT of room (the Suzuki can fit all three although it is snug), but need to plan for the times when my wife is out and I have the kids.

My drive is a mixture of feeder routes and highway, although even the highway can be stop and go. Snow and ice isn't as much of an issue in the Vancouver area -- it would have been more of one if we stayed on the prairies.

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Dramatic Marlin's picture
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Also as a helpful point of reference, when I mention the $1.35/L -- it is roughly 3.8L to a US Gallon. So that means I'm paying roughly $5.13/Gallon right now.

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Dramatic Marlin wrote:
Also as a helpful point of reference, when I mention the $1.35/L -- it is roughly 3.8L to a US Gallon. So that means I'm paying roughly $5.13/Gallon right now.

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duckilama wrote:
I've read and been told that the lifespan of the batteries in a Hybrid, specifically the Prius, is about 2 years. And the replacement cost is pretty high, several thousand dollars.

The warranty on the Prius' hybrid drive is 8 years and 100k miles, so if it goes belly up the protection is there. Major issues with the design aren't showing up in the Consumer Reports ratings. I think there might be lemon hybrids out there, but there are individual lemons in every car model. It's really a question of whether the maker is willing to take back and fix the car or do right by the customer.

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Check out this new car. See if it can make it to the US.

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Switchbreak wrote:
KingGorilla wrote:
If your concern is the carbon footprint, hybrids and electrics are not really a solution. Most of our power in North America is from coal burning plants, more electricity=more burned coal.

Hybrids don't get their electricity from power plants, coal burning or otherwise; you're thinking of a plug-in electric car. They reclaim power that is lost while driving (through braking or other means) and store it in the battery, leading to more efficient use of the gas power.


Some major brainfart there. I must have been thinking of some of the original ones, had to be plugged in at night. Yeah, modern ones do not need that at all.

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I have been in the market for a new car and I have looked heavily at the hybrids.

I was wondering if anyone can speak to the roominess of the car. Pyroman touched on it a little, but in my search for a hybrid, I have to consider whether or not I can fit.

I am a taut, 6'6". Which may or may not be as tall as Elysium. My height seems to skew more towards having long legs than torso, so being able to comfortably drive a car and getting in and out of a car is a factor I always have to consider. Hyrbid Escape presented a solution being an SUV, but I question whether or not I have enough leg room.

Anyone shed light on this?

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Kolbo wrote:
I was wondering if anyone can speak to the roominess of the car. Pyroman touched on it a little, but in my search for a hybrid, I have to consider whether or not I can fit.

I am a taut, 6'6". Which may or may not be as tall as Elysium. My height seems to skew more towards having long legs than torso, so being able to comfortably drive a car and getting in and out of a car is a factor I always have to consider. Hyrbid Escape presented a solution being an SUV, but I question whether or not I have enough leg room.

Anyone shed light on this?

I'm 6'5" and have driven and rode in an earlier prius. It might be a little tight riding in the shotgun for you (you definately don't want to be in the back), but probably would be alright in the driver's seat. Again, that's an early version of the Prius, so I'd say head to a lot and test drive one, it couldn't hurt. Japanese cars in general (like roller coasters) don't seem to have the 6'4"+ set in mind when they are designing.

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Kolbo wrote:
I have been in the market for a new car and I have looked heavily at the hybrids.

I was wondering if anyone can speak to the roominess of the car. Pyroman touched on it a little, but in my search for a hybrid, I have to consider whether or not I can fit.

I am a taut, 6'6". Which may or may not be as tall as Elysium. My height seems to skew more towards having long legs than torso, so being able to comfortably drive a car and getting in and out of a car is a factor I always have to consider. Hyrbid Escape presented a solution being an SUV, but I question whether or not I have enough leg room.

Anyone shed light on this?

People can talk all they want about how roomy a car is. Your best bet is to test drive the car. When I was looking for a new car, I really liked the Mazda3. Really, really, really liked. When I test drove it, I just didn't fit right. I couldn't get comfortable. Someone else of a similar height/build might have had no problems because they have a different way of sitting while they drive or what-not.

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