Clinton says vote for Obama if she loses

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As Jon Steward says, "BOOM! THERE you have it!"

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this just reeks of her paving the way for her drop out of the race.

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Could we call this an endorsement? Hand over your pledged delegates, Hillary!

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I heard her doing the whole "I've had more Americans vote for me than him" lie in Kentucky, which kind of contradicts her "party unity" BS. There's no reason for her campaign at this point beyond vanity and a desire to build the notion in her followers that somehow she was robbed. I expect a lot of statements in favor of party unity from her, followed by lines that subtly cut a Obama.

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Quote:
I heard her doing the whole "I've had more Americans vote for me than him" lie in Kentucky, which kind of contradicts her "party unity" BS.

She merely continues to claim the results of Michigan and Florida primaries as legitimate, and counts them towards her popular vote totals.

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Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
Quote:
I heard her doing the whole "I've had more Americans vote for me than him" lie in Kentucky, which kind of contradicts her "party unity" BS.

She merely continues to claim the results of Michigan and Florida primaries as legitimate, and counts them towards her popular vote totals.

Convenient for her, innit?

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We so need single-day primaries. Hold one national one for both parties on, oh, July 4th; hold the conventions the first week of August and they're off to the races. And we don't get campaigning for a freaking year before the actual election.

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That's another extreme. The contenders won't be able to effectively campaign in much of the country on the runup to the one-day primary. Currently, at least, they're visiting every state shortly before the primaries, and get a chance to energize the local base.

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Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
She merely continues to claim the results of Michigan and Florida primaries as legitimate, and counts them towards her popular vote totals.

It takes more than that. She also excludes all caucus results, meaning that any state that held a caucus doesn't count in her popular vote totals.

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Funkenpants wrote:
Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
She merely continues to claim the results of Michigan and Florida primaries as legitimate, and counts them towards her popular vote totals.

It takes more than that. She also excludes all caucus results, meaning that any state that held a caucus doesn't count in her popular vote totals.

Oh. Well, THAT would be just... sleazy.

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I went to check what she was excluding, and according to this write up it's three caucus states, Iowa, Maine and Nevada that are excluded. CNN says she's excluding all caucus states.

It surprises me that she'd try to exaggerate here. I mean, whoever heard of a Clinton exaggerating?

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Funkenpants wrote:
Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
She merely continues to claim the results of Michigan and Florida primaries as legitimate, and counts them towards her popular vote totals.

It takes more than that. She also excludes all caucus results, meaning that any state that held a caucus doesn't count in her popular vote totals.

Well technically, they didn't vote for Obama, they caucused for him, and the people in Michigan and Florida did vote for her, even if the delegates for those states are not being given a vote at the convention.

Technically, she's correct.

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kaostheory wrote:
Technically, she's correct.

Under that interpretation of the word "vote", then many states never voted at all. And isn't she the one arguing that every state must be heard?

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Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
That's another extreme. The contenders won't be able to effectively campaign in much of the country on the runup to the one-day primary. Currently, at least, they're visiting every state shortly before the primaries, and get a chance to energize the local base.

The contenders DON'T campaign in much of the country. They campaign wherever the next important contest is. If you're not a swing state, they couldn't be bothered.

Kaos, it's my understanding that she only has the popular vote if you count contests in which Obama was not on the ballot at all.

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You have to both ignore caucus states and seat delegates from states where Obama wasn't on the ballot for Hillary to 'win the popular vote'. And note that Hillary herself praised caucuses very strongly -- until losing them.

The blogs seem to think she's pretending to support Obama, but trying to damage his appearance of having a Democratic mandate. She wants McCain to win, so that she can run again in 2012.

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I am confused. If Obama makes it to the general elections, though, it means that the Democrats vested him with such a mandate? Or that's not enough and he needs a mandate from Clinton Republicans as well?

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Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
I am confused. If Obama makes it to the general elections, though, it means that the Democrats vested him with such a mandate?

I suspect she wants it to seem like Bush claiming a mandate over Al Gore in 2000. "I got the popular vote, but he won on technicalities" or something of the kind.

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Funkenpants wrote:
Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
I am confused. If Obama makes it to the general elections, though, it means that the Democrats vested him with such a mandate?

I suspect she wants it to seem like Bush claiming a mandate over Al Gore in 2000. "I got the popular vote, but he won on technicalities" or something of the kind.

Yeah, because that worked out so well for Gore.

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Funkenpants wrote:
kaostheory wrote:
Technically, she's correct.

Under that interpretation of the word "vote", then many states never voted at all. And isn't she the one arguing that every state must be heard?

She's not saying "more people said, through their state's method of selecting delegates for the DNC, that they would like me to be the candidate for President". She's saying "more people voted for me." Which is technically true. Is it misleading? Of course.

LobsterMobster wrote:
Kaos, it's my understanding that she only has the popular vote if you count contests in which Obama was not on the ballot at all.

Even more reason why she should be the candidate. Barack "I'm a Muslim and hate America" Hussein Obama couldn't even be bothered to get on the ballot. Is that really the kind of person you want running this country

(Please note that I am just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that while what she's saying is stupid and deceiving, it is also technically true.)

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kaostheory wrote:
She's not saying "more people said, through their state's method of selecting delegates for the DNC, that they would like me to be the candidate for President".

Unfortunately, that's the meaning she wants people to take from her "technically true" language. If you're trying to leave your listeners with a certain impression, that is what you are saying no matter what the technically true phrasing is.

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Funkenpants wrote:
kaostheory wrote:
She's not saying "more people said, through their state's method of selecting delegates for the DNC, that they would like me to be the candidate for President".

Unfortunately, that's the meaning she wants people to take from her "technically true" language. If you're trying to leave your listeners with a certain impression, that is what you are saying no matter what the technically true phrasing is.

You bring up a very good point. I knew there was a reason we keep you around

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From the Wall Street Journal:

. . . faced with growing pressure to drop out of the race, Sen. Clinton is getting hit with conflicting advice from within her own camp. Some of her top strategists are warning that she is injuring her political future by staying in. Others -- notably her husband, former President Bill Clinton, and strategist Mark Penn -- are urging her to remain in the race. She has beaten Sen. Barack Obama in key swing states, they argue.

. . . Inside her campaign, Sen. Clinton isn't asking for advice, forcing advisers to hold off discussions on what she wants from the process if she loses -- from dealing with campaign debt, to her role in an Obama bid for the White House. "The campaign has broken down to those who drink the Kool-Aid that Hillary can still win, and those who don't, and are considering their options," one operative said.

...In an effort to keep financial backers in the tent, Sen. Clinton hosted them at a cocktail party at her Washington, D.C., residence last week. When she came downstairs to greet the 50 or so guests, Sen. Clinton laid out how she could still win the nomination: Beat Sen. Obama in the popular vote, then persuade the superdelegates to vote for her on the theory that she would be better able to beat Sen. McCain in November.

I'm biased, of course, but it doesn't reflect well on ability to be president when she doesn't seem to understand the current political realities. At best, we can only assume a machiavellian plan to split the party going into the convention so Obama can't win against McCain.

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Funkenpants wrote:
I'm biased, of course, but it doesn't reflect well on ability to be president when she doesn't seem to understand the current political realities. At best, we can only assume a machiavellian plan split the party going into the convention so Obama can't win against McCain.

I keep thinking of that interview where Stephanopolis or whoever was like, "all economists everywhere think your proposed gas tax holiday is a horrible idea," and Clinton was like, "Well, I'm not going to put my lot in with economists." Except when I think of it now, in my head she is saying things like, "Well, I don't put too much stock in numbers."

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With Obama's nomination looking inevitable now regardless of Hillary's machinations, the saddest thing to observe is Bill Clinton's role in this. It's totally incredulous that he's playing this role of persuading Hillary to soldier on and to instigate the shism at the convention. Talk about the legacy being squandered.

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Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
With Obama's nomination looking inevitable now regardless of Hillary's machinations, the saddest thing to observe is Bill Clinton's role in this. It's totally incredulous that he's playing this role of persuading Hillary to soldier on and to instigate the shism at the convention. Talk about the legacy being squandered.

Coby gave his wife a big-ass diamond ring for messing around. Bill has to support his wife's political ambitions til the bitter end.

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Podunk wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:
I'm biased, of course, but it doesn't reflect well on ability to be president when she doesn't seem to understand the current political realities. At best, we can only assume a machiavellian plan split the party going into the convention so Obama can't win against McCain.

I keep thinking of that interview where Stephanopolis or whoever was like, "all economists everywhere think your proposed gas tax holiday is a horrible idea," and Clinton was like, "Well, I'm not going to put my lot in with economists." Except when I think of it now, in my head she is saying things like, "Well, I don't put too much stock in numbers."

Reminds me of how contemptuous the Bush administration was of "realists." Since when is it admirable to claim to know better than professionals? Isn't that a little... elitist?

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No, to the contrary. That's admirably folksy. Do hell with them damn egghead economists!

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Robear wrote:
We so need single-day primaries. Hold one national one for both parties on, oh, July 4th; hold the conventions the first week of August and they're off to the races. And we don't get campaigning for a freaking year before the actual election.

The states won't go for that, they get big money into their economies from all the campaigning.

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Sigh. That's not what elections are supposed to be about.

Extremism in the defense of liberty *is* a vice. It has been since the first Crown Loyalist was tarred, feathered and set afire, and it's no better now. It corrupts first the individual, then ultimately the institution it defends.