Am I a bully?

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

I was at boxing class last night and the partner I got matched up with was this 17 year old kid who showed up to class drunk. I mean, you could smell it coming off his pores. This pissed me off for a number of reasons. First, there was the whole wanting a training partner who was going to take my time and his seriously. Second, showing up to class drunk is fundamentally disrespectful to the gym, the coach, and all the other folks who are there to actually learn something.

Anyway, we were working clinches, clinch escapes, punching drills, evades, takedowns, kicks and knees using the mitts and thai pads. And though I purposely didn't actually hit him, I may have given the pads a little extra heat even after he started showing signs of discomfort. He's probably feeling it today.

Does that make me a bully?

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nsmike's picture
Location: Pennsylvania

Yes.

Wait...

*Reads first post*

Ohh! Oh.

Yes.

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VicD714's picture
Location: Terra Firma

Doesn't really sound like it. I mean, it's not like you pummeled the guy into a bloody pulp, right? Besides, if you're going to be trading blows with someone, it would seem to me that you would want to have all your wits about you. If you're going to show up drunk, you're just giving your opponent an even bigger opportunity to clean your clock.

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kaostheory's picture
Location: Chicagoish

You should have taken him by the ear to the local police station and turned him in for underage drinking.

And then yell "Get off my lawn!"

I don't think I would classify your actions as bullying. The kid deserves worse.

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t0W's picture
Location: Ottawa, Canada

How early was it, maybe he was still drunk from the night before? haha

Not a bully.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

t0W wrote:
How early was it, maybe he was still drunk from the night before? haha

Not a bully.

Class started at 7:30pm. Kid was nearly falling down drunk.

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Elliottx's picture
Location: Vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Milky Way

As long as you didn't sweep the legs, then you're not a bully.

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ranalin's picture
Location: Knoxville, TN

Should've popped the lip or nose for good measure too. Guys like that, while annoying and good for the schools bottom line while they're there, tend to not last long.

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shihonage's picture
Location: Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Quote:

Anyway, we were working clinches, clinch escapes, punching drills, evades, takedowns, kicks and knees using the mitts and thai pads. And though I purposely didn't actually hit him, I may have given the pads a little extra heat even after he started showing signs of discomfort. He's probably feeling it today.

Does that make me a bully?

The more important question is - was he any good drunk ?

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

shihonage wrote:
Quote:

Anyway, we were working clinches, clinch escapes, punching drills, evades, takedowns, kicks and knees using the mitts and thai pads. And though I purposely didn't actually hit him, I may have given the pads a little extra heat even after he started showing signs of discomfort. He's probably feeling it today.

Does that make me a bully?

The more important question is - was he any good drunk ?

He held the pads, though I had to correct him pretty much constantly.

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If the choices are to give him a bit of physical contact when you knew he was incapacitated, or call him out on his stupid action, I'm pretty sure you picked the option that the kid would've wanted you to pick.

Really being a bully would've been to alert the authorites and generally mess up the kid's life vis a vis, an MIP (or public drunkenness, depending on your local state's laws).

I think you did the kid a huge favor.

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AmazingZoidberg's picture
Location: Ohio

Mex wrote:
Did you take his lunch money?

You beat me to it. I only consider it to be bullying if the victim is forcibly relieved of lunch money.

In you're case you're just teaching the whipper snapper a valuable lesson; "not everybody is going to be polite enough to refrain from beating the crap out of you when you're drunk"

I hate you soo much Phil Collins!

something about the frank, unprovoked admission of assault with a deadly weapon tickles my funny bone

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

Seth wrote:
If the choices are to give him a bit of physical contact when you knew he was incapacitated, or call him out on his stupid action, I'm pretty sure you picked the option that the kid would've wanted you to pick.

Really being a bully would've been to alert the authorites and generally mess up the kid's life vis a vis, an MIP (or public drunkenness, depending on your local state's laws).

I think you did the kid a huge favor.

That makes me feel a bit better.

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RedJen's picture
Location: NC (No comment)

If you pretended not to notice his lack of coordination and taken great advantage of it, then maybe. But since you didn't say anything about blackening both his eyes, rupturing his testicle or splitting his lip open, I think your love taps speak for themselves....

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

RedJen wrote:
If you pretended not to notice his lack of coordination and taken great advantage of it, then maybe. But since you didn't say anything about blackening both his eyes, rupturing his testicle or splitting his lip open, I think your love taps speak for themselves....

No ruptured testicles, but I'm sure his forearms were pretty badly bruised from the kicks to the thai pads. I sort of have a reputation for hitting the same 2" spot over and over and over again.

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MaxShrek's picture
Location: Fragville Junction, NY

You didn't do enough.

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shihonage's picture
Location: Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

We once had a guy who would show up with a mild smell of alcohol on his breath. He was fine during training. Then he started coming in sober, and something changed.

On one particular day it was just him, me and the instructor. The guy, sober, was actively trying to cancel the technique he knew was coming, so I had to do it very skeletally and triangularly. No flowing movement, just enter/take balance, isolate his head/neck to my chest, and throw him by his neck with hip movement. Because of his resistance and unwillingness to relax he not only was getting hurt during the throw, but also as he landed he made it a pretty hard fall for himself.

The moral is: if you're better when slightly inebriated... keep drinking.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

shihonage wrote:
We once had a guy who would show up with a mild smell of alcohol on his breath. He was fine during training. Then he started coming in sober, and something changed.

On one particular day it was just him, me and the instructor. The guy, sober, was actively trying to cancel the technique, so I had to do it very skeletally and triangularly. No flowing movement, just enter/take balance, isolate his head/neck to my chest, and throw him by his neck with hip movement. Because of his resistance and unwillingness to relax he not only was getting hurt during the throw, but also as he landed he made it a pretty hard fall for himself.

The moral is: if you're better when slightly inebriated... keep drinking.

That wasn't the case with this kid. The most frustrating part was that he couldn't seem to respond even to the most basic instructions. How freaking tough is it to throw a jab/cross/hook/cross combination? How tough is it to remember to protect your chin by keeping it tucked into your shoulder? How tough is it to remember to protect your jaw?

Now, even when I'm working with someone completely sober, I'll toss in the occasional counter when I'm holding the mitts and I don't think they're paying attention. I may have done that a couple times to this kid as well resulting in some boxed ears and some red marks on his forehead, but I resisted the temptation to knock him on his can with a full on pop in his wide open jaw.

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No, you're not a bully. Now here's my lunch money and your Trig homework. Please don't hit me.

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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

It might be disrespectful to the gym but it's not your place to punish him for that. So yeah. Bully.

It's also not helping YOU any. It takes more strength and discipline to land a solid, precise, fast blow while maintaining enough control not to cause "discomfort" to the other person than to put on a little "heat."

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

LobsterMobster wrote:
It might be disrespectful to the gym but it's not your place to punish him for that. So yeah. Bully.

It's also not helping YOU any. It takes more strength and discipline to land a solid, precise, fast blow while maintaining enough control not to cause "discomfort" to the other person than to put on a little "heat."

I wasn't punishing him for disrespecting the gym. I was punishing him for wasting my time. The job of a training partner is to be the trainer. He, through actions of his own choosing, made himself unable to perform that duty to a satisfactory level. Now, I have all the patience in the world for folks who are just starting out and need help and are willing to learn, but folks who deliberately waste my time like that get bruised up a bit.

I would hope my trainer would have the same attitude.

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Irongut's picture

You played that Rockstar game didnt you. Well, even if you didnt play it, maybe you read about it. That's enough to tranform you. It's all Rockstars fault. Making Bully's outta people by titleing a piece of electronic entertainment "Bully" and then marketing it.

I'm totally kidding. The guy wasted your time and showed disrespect showing up in that way. Maybe he learned a lesson that if he wants to over-indulge like that on his own time, then that's fine, but don't be bringing it to the gym where it affects other people (with schedule's) enjoyment of their hobby. He's just lucky it wasnt Kukri 101.

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Location: Uhhh..... Long story....

I would consider you more as the route the world spoke to him. Hopefully he was listening.

Otherwise, the world might have to raise it's voice next time and that tends to be a lot worse than a bit of sting and some interesting colors in interesting places.

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Az Syndicate's picture
Location: Tempe AZ

I don't know if you are or aren't a bully, but I do think you are now well prepared for the next time a drunk picks a fight with you.

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It only teaches if he understands your motivation. I don't know if you could have made that clear and memorable in his state. But I do know that he did squander your time. Typically are you paired due to ability or size? Or do you determine your own partners?

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Jayhawker's picture
Location: St. Louis

Well, as I was just studying this in my Child Psych class, bullying requires one important element. It has to happen repeatedly. So, if every week, you have decided to punish this kid, then, yeah, you are a bully. But in this case, you were just kind of a jerk. I think you are pretty clear that you sent out some seriously negative vibes. While you may have intended to teach this kid a lesson, you just may have taught him one you were not intending.

That said, Bob Gibson was my favorite pitcher. He dealt out a few lessons of his own.

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PurEvil's picture
Location: Columbia, MD

Wow... you didn't f*ck with his mind?

You're getting soft man.

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Robear's picture

A martial arts school is a training place for fighters. If you come in and you are not prepared to fight, you should not be there. Being offensively dirty, or ignoring instructions, that sort of thing is disrespectful to the school. That's one thing and it's usually easily corrected with a short discussion.

But coming into a place where you know you can be hit at any time, and in a condition where you can't control your own actions to the degree required is not just disrespectful, but an utter provocation. Most sifus or sensei's I know would toss a student out for that, no questions asked. The risk that they could hurt someone, or be hurt, is bad enough. But to come to a place of learning in a state where there's no way you can learn, when the topic is controlled violence, is just unconscionable. It's no different from showing up for your driving lesson wasted, and the response should be no less draconian. Who wants to train someone with that little self-control?

Maybe sit him out back to think about it and sober up the first time. You don't want him to get busted for driving home (never mind how he got there.) But that's pretty merciful for a school of conflict. In my opinion, the worst thing to do is to let him participate - the chances of his being hurt or injuring someone is way too high.

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