Copy protection/DRM (Mass Effect) PC & Spore
First of all, sorry to vent... But I just have to get this out of my system... I mean, the game that I have been most eagerly waiting for is now "out of my reach." And being treated like a thief over and over again by various game publishers is really pissing me off...
I was in a fairly good mood today until I saw this over at VE3d
To clarify:If you buy MEPC, install and run the game the game will register automatically and you are good to play.
After 5 days the next time you start the game the system will automatically try to register. If you are connected to the internet, it will occur without you even knowing it and reset the 10 days.
If you are not connected to the internet, you can keep playing for the next 5 days. As you start each day, the system will keep trying to validate. If it connects and validates, the "clock" is reset.
If the system cannot connect to the internet after the 10 days, you will not be able to play MEPC until you are connected to the internet. Once you reconnect to the internet and try to play, it will re-validate and you can play as normal for another period of 10 days as before.
So it is not "at 10 days and if the servers aren't working you're screwed". There is a large window (5days) where the system automatically tries to re-validate to prevent last minute problems.
I don't even know where to start about this new DRM feature...
1) You have to schedule some of your activities around the DRM activation windows if you want to play the game... I am single, so I can probably work around my trip to MD to visit my folks around the activation days, but this is a huge pain for people with a family. Or people that have to travel often (A good friend of mine, who is also into RPGs, has air force training weekend once/twice every month. And he usually bring a single player game with him... I was going to recommend ME but now looks like I won't...) .
2) You have to be careful about changing your computer hardware... Or else have fun calling tech support every time you make enough change to your system that causes your system to be "invalid."
3) You only have limited activation of the game it seems... So if you want to install the game on multiple computers, you are out of luck... (To me this means I can't really bring the game with me to my parents' house and install it on their system...)
GAHHHHH!
I know, I know, now-a-days everyone's got internet connection, right? This is no problem. But even assuming everything works perfectly every time, this is just more unnecessary burden for gamers that paid for the game...
I just can't agree with this type of copy protection on principle... What's next? Your saved games are linked to your PC? And an activation is required to activate them?
Feel free to delete this thread if it is inappropriate, I will just curl under my desk and cry now...
Who Am I?
Uh, clearly you haven't played Gears of War, Viva Pinata or Halo 2 on the PC. You have to be connected to GFW Live if you want to save or load your game.
Also, doesn't sound like it'll be an issue for me so I can't really get perturbed about this. Especially since tactics like these have to take place if we expect these single-player experiences on the PC to exist.
Your favourite game is over-rated.
The way these activation things work isn't usually to lock you down to a single computer, but to catch it if they get hundreds of activations of a single CD key per week. From what I understand about this one, you will be able to register it on 3 different machines simultaneously, like BioShock.
Which isn't to say that this DRM isn't incredibly f*cked up and wierd and un-consumer-friendly, just that it probably won't be inconvenient unless you regularly go ten days without internet or have a whole fleet of computers that you switch between regularly.
Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto
Well, you paid for the game, so it's really just a hop, skip and a jump to torrent-land for a cracked version that will let you play the game whatever way you want to.
Although, that should NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be necessary. So screw 'em.
Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/NSMike
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DRM is like the internet's version of gun control. The people most hurt are the people that obey the terms in the first place.
Letters to the Internet
Has anyone?
This really kills my enthusiasm for the game. I was really psyched about buying Mass Effect for the PC.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
I suppose that is one opinion.
One thing I wonder about is the future potential of these heavy copy protection schemes. If I want to play through Mass Effect or Bioshock five or ten years from now, what will happen?
They asked Ken Levine that, and according to him the plan is to patch them out at some point when not enough copies are moving to worry about losing sales.
Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto
And yet they wonder why their games don't sell well...
I believe that there is a connection between the rise of the practice of buying a "limited license" for a PC game, (instead of treating it like you know actually property and all the rights that go with it), and the decline of PC game market share. It's like they are trying to see how much VALUE they can take away from a "product" without hurting sells. I for one was interested in buying Mass Effect, that's to not to say that I would have bought it per-se but the chance WAS pretty high, now I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole nor would i bet I'm the only one, or in other words and this is the key point here
And for what? Is DRM going to stop the game from being available on the Interwebs? NO, it's not. Furthermore, with DRM like this, the pirated version version has added value becoming the de facto way to play. I could develop this further, but don't have the time, but stunts like this just pisses me off.
When will they learn? Probably when the RIAA does...
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who know binary, those that don't, and...
That would be great if it actually happened, but I can't see any company following that justification. If there's still a chance to make money, I think they'd want to.
Steam ID: http://steamcommunity.com/id/NSMike
XBL: NSMike
PSN: NSMike
Wii Friend Code: 7763 1519 2475 2278
My guess is if you're trying to play BioShock ten years from now, circumventing the copy protection will be the least of your problems. Getting it to run properly will take precedent.
Also, as someone who is almost always online, this is actually a preferable option for me. It says you won't need the disc in the drive for Mass Effect to play it.
Your favourite game is over-rated.
The idea isn't that they stop selling it and give it away for free, just that they patch out the DRM before the activation servers go down due to the company liquidating assets or something.
Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto
This is one of the reasons I've been very reluctant to "upgrade" to Vista. I have a copy of XP Pro sitting on a disc just waiting to be installed once I get my next computer. If that means I can't play many PC games, well there's a huge library of PC games that I haven't played yet-- and the hardware to run DOOM3 is nowhere near as expensive as it was when it came out.
Not to get off topic, but Chiggie: your clarity of thought surprises me. I'm used to gaming forum dwellers thinking that Jack Thompson is the anti-christ for blaming games for violence, but Richard Daley is some kind of visionary because he blames a different inanimate G-word for the actions of violent people.
I guess I've finally come to the right forum then.
You can fly in the face of convention if you want to. Just don't get swatted.
I bet this system gets cracked within 4 days.
This whole system sucks horribly. Just for this I'm NOT going to buy it.
I use that analogy because I understand why people want gun control, just like I understand why people want piracy protection, but the failures of both boil down to the fact that they keep making both harder to use, instead harder to get.
It's an oversimplified analogy but they seem to fit.
Letters to the Internet
This makes me unhappy. I wanted to play Mass Effect, but now it looks like I won't play it. Maybe they will release it on Steam?
Really, its all about finding a way to do DRM without hurting the consumer. I don't mind using Steam to run a game, and it doesn't limit me on how I want to play the game (once a game has been activated). DRM done properly rewards consumers for complying with registration/etc - it takes the sting off of treating me like a thief.
I can see why in this day and age that DRM is needed, but this set of DRM is overkill to the nth degree. Why not just validate it once on install (still an inconvience, but hey all DRM are) and then once everytime they release downloadable content for the game. I see no sense in validating once every 10 days; it's just nonsense.
I personally own this for my 360 already, but if I didn't I can say with 100% certainty I wouldn't buy this game for my PC if I have to keep a schedule in order to keep my game playable.
When are they gonna learn, if you make a game a burden for PC gamers to play they flat out wont.
Xbox Live Gamer Tag: Harbinger01
PSN ID: Harbinger01
The Gaming Chronicles:
www.thegamingchronicles.blogspot.com
Seriously? That the game wants to go out and connect with a remote server at least once every five days is that big a deal to you surprises me. We played 2142 for over a year, and at least if you had done an electronic download, the game had to log onto EA's server every time. No biggie.
I'm sympathetic to the people who see this is an unforgivable trespass, but to me it would provide no obstacle to enjoying the game. I mean, provided it's not doing something in the background when I'm not playing or not trying to load itself up on startup, etc.
Yeah I definitely didn't get any of those games, thanks for letting me know, I will be sure to stay away from them. But why can't I expect more single-player experiences on PC to exist without ever more draconian DRM methods? What happened to trusting your customer?
Also, I think too quickly people judge how sucessful a game is based purely on sales number. Has anyone considered the cost saving they would have made by forgoing the purchasing and maintaining of DRM methods. And the cost of maintaining extra customer support staff to tackle the inevitable problems that DRM methods could cause the customer over time?
I think I am just really irked about the possibility that this kind of crap is the way of the future. I don't have a family right now, but work is adding enough "spice" in my life to make me increasingly frustrated at these "hoops" that I have to get through just to relax and play some games...
What if I change my computer hardware often? (which I do) I rather not have to call them up and wait for 2 hours for a response so I can play for 30min before I have to sleep...
Who Am I?
The 10-day schedule is just there if your internet connection is down. I'm totally with you in thinking this is screwed up theoretically, but in practical terms it won't affect the 99% of people who play the game and have some form of internet access available.
Unless this is a completely radical new form of DRM, you won't have to reactivate when you change your hardware like you do with Windows XP. SecuROM keeps track of simultaneous installs, so if you're playing the same install on new hardware, you're fine, or if you uninstall one of the first 3 installs before you install a fourth one, you're fine.
Homo sum, humani nil a me alienum puto
Thanks for the heads up, I don't like DRM either. I guess I won't be buying it =P
The weird thing is that I don't mind having to connect to Steam to play, but all these different games and their paranoia...
I haven't actually...
The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
The apologists here amaze me. In the case of the other cited games, the network connectivity was a feature. It was for your benefit.
This can't benefit you. It can only harm you. It shouldn't be in the game.
edit: removed superfluous word.
Groves giveth, and Gates taketh away.
I just got a 360 but I want to buy this on PC because I know it will be better.
This really does suck but I don't think I will have any problems since I am always connected to the internet.
If it does come out on steam I will buy it there.
Thanks for standin' still!
-XBox Gamertag: Tempest Blaze (Without the Y!)
Screw it.
I'll just pick up a used copy of Stalker instead.
*Legion* wrote:
Agreed, but I really don't like this mindset that is becoming more and more popular. The person who had the quote about gun control hurting the people who legitimately buy guns the most, forgive me but I am lazy and didn't want to scroll up, was pretty spot on. Not saying that I would, but this would be something that would drive me to pirate a game instead of purchasing it.
Sorry to say it but most human beings are like electricity, they will follow the path of least resistance. In this case that happens to be to obtain the game illegally. The real tragedy here is that the PC market seems to be in a negative feedback loop where PC developers see that they are losing "profit" to piracy, try to counteract it with rediculously strict DRM, it winds up driving more people to pirate the game than normally would have (hurting sales), and that leads to PC developers either getting more strict or blaming piracy for their loss in profit (*cough* crytek *cough*).
Xbox Live Gamer Tag: Harbinger01
PSN ID: Harbinger01
The Gaming Chronicles:
www.thegamingchronicles.blogspot.com
Instead of whining on the boards, why doesn't everybody who decided not to buy the game because of it fire off a quick email to the publisher, and specifically state that they have lost a sale due to their draconian DRM. Period. I would think such a course of action may have much more effect overall.
(@)
No worries, I'm sure the entire thing will be bypassed within days of the game's release and you'll be able to get a patched executable on GameCopyWorld.
Uh, I'm pretty sure that the default, local account (Player) does not connect to anything, and it works just fine for single player and LAN play.
It's when you try to play online, period, GoW forces you to establish a Live! account and starts checking for connection.
Shelter: a post-nuclear RPG.
It's like Microsoft really doesn't want anyone actually using GFW Live or whatever they call it.
The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
Do you know the address? I dont mind sending an email.
The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
The funny thing is that in this same thread someone said they hope they'd release it on Steam, and as I've said I have issues with Steam as well.
Scratch that, I don't have issues with Steam, I have issues with the idea that a 3rd party gets to run anything on my computer to check up on me, even if it is just a one time "connect to the Internet to verify your license" sort of thing. At the point I buy a product it should run on whatever platform I bought it for.
I like that the 360 doesn't care if I'm connected or not, even though it so obviously wants to be online. Even then though, once you put that bad boy on-line and download anything you're tempting the DRM goblins to come and strike you down.
Yet I have this niggling fear that pirates are still out there playing the games they want to play and playing them the way they want to. I have this feeling that when they hit something like the 360's DRM issues that they can't crack they simply don't play those games. I don't know if that is true or not, but everytime I see an executive talk about converting piracy to sales I can't help but think that will never happen.
In the meantime, I really do feel like these companies are treating me as the criminal. Chiggie's analogy is spot on. I know why they want to stop piracy but their efforts to stop it have only hurt the paying customer. The difference here is that the PC gaming market maybe isn't shrinking, but it's not growing either. If they continue to piss off paying customers I'm not sure how much longer they'll only stagnate.
As it is, I had a game that required Starforce and I actually tried to install it and do all the crap I said I wouldn't do with Steam or EA's service. The game still wouldn't run. I uninstalled the whole kit and caboodle, but the one thing I still remember is that I felt like I was being treated like crap for bothering to actually buy their product in a store.
I used to like PC gaming up to the point that PC game developers stopped acting like they had any honest customers anymore.
Unfettered Blather - Daily updated nonsense
X-Box Live Gamertag - CrazedJava
Less chatter more splatter!
I have different expectations from a singleplayer game versus an online multiplayer one. I think the system as outlined in the original post is ridiculous overkill. It really bothers me from a perspective of ever-encroaching DRM schemes which do little except punish the honest customers. My main PC is online pretty much 24 hours a day and still this whole concept rankles. I bought Bioshock despite its one-time validation. Same goes for HL2. Every 5 days? Now that's just being a dick and I have a hard time supporting that.
Edit: Meant to say HL2, not TF2.
Fedaykin98 wrote: