Atheist soldier suing on grounds of religious discrimination
Monday, April 28th, 2008 - 9:25am
Quote:
Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and -- just as severe to some soldiers -- gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.
I love this, and it'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad how often that accusation is made. It's like some of these small-minded, hateful people cannot fathom a life in which one does not worship something. And if you don't believe in God, then by process of elimination you must believe in Satan.
Quote:
It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said."I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,' " Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."
Or plastics.
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lol i see this being dropped. This has been done forever and ever. Not that it makes it right, but it makes it sound like this guy isn't tough enough to take it.
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Based on the article, it sounds like Hall's a class act. I'm very impressed - a model atheist, if there exists such a thing.
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I don't really see what's so lol-worthy about this, ranalin. Do you think that his lawsuit is frivolous? That he doesn't deserve protection and it's laughable that he's asking for it?
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I find it laughable that my mom while in the army and who's an atheist has more cajones to deal with these type of problems and being a woman on top of that. I find it laughable that anyone in this day and time can sue someone just because their feelings got hurt. I find it laughable that it made it to the media. In general, for me, it's quite laughable.
Edit: I on the other hand dont find discrimination a laughing matter, but still have a hard time believing that this was so bad for him.
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Because of course your mom and this guy *have* to dealw ith this because it's just the way things have been forever and ever? I find THAT laughable.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
I honestly don't nor did my mom find it an issue. This guy's sounds like someone that can't take some name calling. Again just because your feelings get hurt doesn't mean you're automatically in queue to sue someone.
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I guess he's just overracting, right? You have no idea what he's actually going through, and I find it pretty offensive that you find his complaints laughable whether your mom is in a similar situation or not.
I also think you may have missed this part:
Maybe your mom is tough enough to take the abuse without caring much. On the other hand, maybe she's just letting people walk all over her and lacks the "cajones" to do anything about it.
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Now if only those pesky Jews could have a sense of humor about being called "Jesus killers"...
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
I didn't miss that part. Until it has been proven that it actually happened, it's a non point. If it's proven that was true then more power to him. Till then it seems more of an attention/money grabbing action.
Can i find it offensive that you find offense at my levity? Obviously without any of us being there none of us can know the truth and draw on our own experiences to draw our own conclusions.
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You can take offense to whatever you like.
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Careful i may sue!
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There is more to this case than meets the eye...(queue Transformers soundtrack)
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him, than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word "darkness" on the wall of his cell.
-CS Lewis
From what I read in the case in the Times, the army culture sounded a lot more evangelical than it's been known to be in the past. Then again, a lot of what goes on in the army also depends on the unit's command. If the guy had been in another unit it might never have been a big deal.
Where is Reaper to give up the low down from his time in Iraq?
Have anything in particular in mind, or are you just being cryptic?
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I fear for your life, lobsters are notorious for going on homicidal rampages, killing babies and raping the local fauna while denying the existance of humankind. I say you should hire a platoon of marines to guard you day and night until this lawsuit is over, and um sue him for the cost of the protection too. Just in case he goes lobster on you.
edit: For the record, saying most of America "doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude" isn't going to win him much sympathy.
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
This may stir a few memories.
On an anecdotal note, I know a field grade officer in the Army who tells me that if you are not evangelical, you are not going anywhere in the officer corps. He knows of a number of officers who "got religion" or changed affiliations to be compatible with their commanders, and says that the pressure to do so is tremendous and pervasive (again, for officers in his division.) Another major flaw in the antiquated personnel system in the Pentagon.
Extremism in the defense of liberty *is* a vice. It has been since the first Crown Loyalist was tarred, feathered and set afire, and it's no better now. It corrupts first the individual, then ultimately the institution it defends.
Entirely possible.
Most of the friends I have who have spent time in Special Forces tend to at least be skeptical of religion with a statistically very significant number of them being outright dogmatic atheists. Perhaps it is the whole living among the population and actually seeing the rest of the world outside of Halliburton(tm) forward operating bases that leads to a rejection of provincial attitudes.
Folks I've known in the Air Force are, in sharp contrast, much more likely to be evangelical Christian and far less likely to be informed about other cultures -- at least in my anecdotal experience.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
The article isn't very specific on the order of events, but generally I suspect the kid is royally stupid.
Yes, you can expect name calling in the Army, but if Maj Welborn threatened charges if Hall held an atheists meeting, that's a no-no. I don't disagree with that, but the Army has respected this freedom for a long time. Individual soldiers may not, but the Army does.
What Hall needs to do at that point is complain to his chain of command about a feeling of discrimination. He didn't do that, he didn't even attempt to. There are agencies in the military specifically organized to take these complaints. He went straight to a lawsuit. Outsiders to the military might not realize this, but that is a huge insult - you aren't accusing 2 officers of discrimination, you are accusing everyone in the command of this. It's a blanket accusation. It's a big FU to the same people who Hall puts his life on the line in a firefight. I suspect the worst name calling happened after the lawsuit was made clear.
It's kinda like standing in the middle of the street in the worst black ghetto you can find, putting on black face makeup and screaming that its your constitution right of free speech to burn crosses.
We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Our division had Wiccan/voodoo/FSM whatever gatherings every week in the chapel. Nobody told me I had to believe in Jesus.
And remember, the Japanese aren't commercially whaling. They're conducting "research". Like "researching how delicious this whale is". - Paleocon
How is it ANYTHING like that?
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Seriously? For some reason I find that awesome.
McChuck wrote:
Wicca and "other" non-mainstream religious gatherings, yes.
And remember, the Japanese aren't commercially whaling. They're conducting "research". Like "researching how delicious this whale is". - Paleocon
Better hope Ahmadinejad and/or Al-Jazeera doesn't find out about this, or they'll be back on that "America's religious crusade in the middle east" line of rhetoric.
"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. I did an original sin. I poked a badger with a spoon." - Eddie Izzard
Personally I'd find a squad of Voodoo worshiping troops to be MUCH more intimidating that an group of Catholic soldiers! Would you like to fight a squad of guys you knew were hardcore Voodoo worshipers? Not me, I'll take the Catholics
You, obviously, aren't familiar with the history of the holy fighting orders. Templars, Teutonic Knights, oh, and lest we forget, the Holy Inquisition.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
Not to mention if they shrink your head it'll be harder for them to shoot you there.
(I'm sorry for being tactless, but I couldn't resist)
Fletcher wrote:
The problem with voodoo troops is the zombies.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Nah, reusable shock troops!
"What exactly is a squirrel licking beta grabbing frump digger?" ~trichy
"Grass grows, birds fly, sun shines and brudda.... I hurt people"
You know, Voodoo actually has nothing to do with zombies or sticking pins in dolls. These were ideas brought over by European Missionaries which were staples of witch craft. Voodoo was then discredited by drawing parallels to witch craft.
Just thought it might be of interest to some other nerd like me
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Voodoo or Vodou is based on the West African animistic religions, imported by the influx of slaves to the south and the cane plantations in the Caribbean islands, especially Haiti. The West African Vodou was fused with Catholicism under the pressure of the Catholic church in the new world, creating what we now know today as New Orleans and Haitian voodoo. While sticking pins in dolls is commonly used attributed to voodoo practices in the media, (ie. the Bond movie Live and Let Die), it is really a practice of earlier folk "magic" or wicca in eastern Europe.
Zombies however are a part of vodou tradition, albeit a limited one.
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him, than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word "darkness" on the wall of his cell.
-CS Lewis