What is emo and why are you putting it in my video games?

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Mystic Violet's picture
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Riddle me this, Batman:

Now, I don't want to be linked to a 30 page thesis explaining this phenomenon. What I want to know is when this term evolved to the point where it includes every single video game character ever created. Okay. I admit it. I've been living under a rock for most of my life. A lot of these "scenes" have passed me by. I still don't really know what a true "emo" thingy is. I always thought it was a person who wore their emotions on their sleeves. My current knowledge revolves around the stereotype of dark clothing, hanging hair, sadness, anger and suicide for little to no reason.

"The main character in this game is soooo emo!!"

Hold it! I've heard this line over and over again for far too long. Just stop right there for a minute.

What in god's name does that mean? Why is he emo? Because he's wearing a black shirt? Is his hair in disarray? Is he really pissed off about something? Is something really bad going to happen? Did he have a traumatic experience in his life? IS THE WORLD GOING TO END ANYTIME SOON? HMM??

Does the reason a main character isn't Mr. or Ms. Sunshine mean anything? What separates a normal human reaction from an emo one?

- Watched my family get slaughtered when I was 9. Still pissed off about it. = Emo
- That jerk killed my brother. Now I'm going to kill him! = Emo
- I LOST MY LEGS YOU @#$%! = Emo
- = Emo
- I don't remember... anything. = Emo
- The love of my life disappeared one night during a Kara raid. He never came back. Damn you, Netherspite! = Me being emo
- Whatever. I don't care. = Emo
- This is awesome!!! = Emo
- My parents beat me when I was a child. Now I want to destroy the world. = Emo
- ... = Emo
- My childhood hero betrayed me, killed everyone in town including my mother, nearing killed my childhood friend, a friend and I were used in inhumane scientific experiments for months, we escaped and my friend was killed right before we made it to safety... Oh and because of these traumatic events I mixed up my dead friend's memories with my own for a while = Emo
- I was that guy who betrayed him. When I found out I was a scientific experiment, I completely lost it. But I found my mama now so it's all good. We're going take over the world together and I'm so happy! = Not Emo
...Oh yeah! I forgot. I wear all black! = SUPER EMO.

Somebody needs to explain this to me because I do not understand any of it. I wouldn't expect a video game character, hero or villain, in a bad situation to be happy about it. I'd also expect past events to have an affect a character's personality in some way. You know, like in real life. I expect sadness, anger, confusion, introverted personalities, problems with anger management, repressed memories (hell, I'll even take amnesia) and even some type of mental illness.

Why does feeling any type of negative emotion whatsoever automatically make these characters emo? Would it make players feel better if these character were always upbeat regardless of past, present and possible future events? Should they have an End of the World party to celebrate? 'Cause, you know, nothing will make you feel better during the Apocalypse than some chocolate cake!

What say you?

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That post reads as really emo.

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LiquidMantis wrote:
That post reads as really emo.

That means I win right?! w00t!

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I've always read "emo" as a synonym for "angst."

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I posted a baffled thread a while ago asking about the whole "emo" thing is music, too.

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dhelor's picture
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MightyMooquack wrote:
I've always read "emo" as a synonym for "angst."

They do go hand-in-hand. However, while you can have angst without emo, it's not possible in the reverse.

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I think "emo" is becoming the new "gay". People will use it improperly to describe something they don't like. I've always thought that emo was goth without the anger, or neat clothes.

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I read emo as a synonym for melodramatic. Which could also be a synonym for "teenaged angst", or that unique kind of sadness that you can only experience when you're young enough to believe that you really are a special snowflake with a brilliance that no one appreciates.

I think the "emo" moniker is an accurate descriptor of a lot of video game protagonists, not because they're angry or sad, but because they're generally pretty ham-fistedly written, and poorly written negative emotions read as melodrama, aka "emo".

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Emo comes from punk/indie rock, where it was one of those useless descriptors people slapped on bands so that they could sound analytical. People pretty much use it however they want now, usually to mean something that is angst-filled in a trendy sort of way. It's said about video games a lot because characters that show emotion in games more often than not seem contrived in order to sell well, like whiny music for depressed high-school goths. Especially Japanese games, where they combine whiny people with impeccable fashion sense, creating a vortex of inescapable trendyness.

Edit: Apparantly, there were anti-emo riots and a counter-protest in Mexico. I'd imagine there was a lot of sobbing and posing involved.

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I guess the easy way to put it would be that an "emo" is a large, flightless bird.

Wait, that's not right...

An emo is someone who reacts to problems (real or perceived) with an exaggerated sense of despondency and frustration, and makes sure everyone around them knows it. Melodrama, basically. It's associated with teens because a good part of it is a lack of perspective, which is something teens have in spades. There's also a fashion facet to it; simple black clothing, horn-rimmed glasses, and a sort of hairstyle that covers one eye (emos will tell you that this represents how everyone who is not emo goes about life half-blind, unwilling to give up their happy little lives in exchange for enlightenment and the revelation that everything sucks).

I think the reason people dislike emos is that they tend to complain about things to excess without actually doing anything about them. They also write really bad poetry, and nobody likes that.

I don't quite get the raw hatred you see toward the whole "emo movement" at times, typified by comments like, "If you're so depressed why don't you just kill yourself and do us all a favor?" but they have a special mix of arrogance (believing that their perception of the world is sharper and less deluded than that of non-emo) and non-constructive whinginess that does make them thoroughly obnoxious.

But to answer your question, people call JRPG protagonists emo because they spend more time monologuing melodramatically about how sad they are than actually getting their sh*t in line.

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Quote:

Edit: Apparantly, there were anti-emo riots and a counter-protest in Mexico. I'd imagine there was a lot of sobbing and posing involved.

Don't get me started on that. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this country, and I've seen a lot.

It's worse when you see a bunch of metalhead, punk and goth posers explaining they hate the Emo dudes because they "steal our clothing style", on National TV. Bunch of idiots, all of them! >_<

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Old Man P π's picture
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A short history of Emo
A long and boring dissertation on the many waves of Emo
The term has become a lowest common denominator descriptor for anything remotely resembling its original incarnation. Having been an 'emo kid' since long before it was cool, the word has come to invoke a blind rage in me. On that note, enjoy the read. The man is much more eloquent than I on the subject.

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Goth + Gay = Emo

Weird + Hilarious = Emo Phillips

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KingGorilla's picture

At first I thought that this was the OP's first trip into the Rockband store.

But, strangely, much like a fellow asking when did Nirvana become "classic rock?" Emo is sh*tty music that teenagers and tweens listen to these days. It is kind of funny, because it is sort of the white suburban reaction to every music revolution ever. Generally music genres and changes come from the impoverished. Blues, Bluegrass, Rock from poor rural boys. Jazz, Rap, Hard Rock-Heavy metal from poor urban boys. Emo is like those groups creating a genre of music, out of hardship, and strife, and horror. But rather from the horror that is privileged white suburban life.

Now, either we have reached a total saturation of ghetto chiq, or kids today are just that lame.

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MechaSlinky wrote:
Goth + Gay = Emo

Weird + Hilarious = Emo Phillips

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Why does feeling any type of negative emotion whatsoever automatically make these characters emo? Would it make players feel better if these character were always upbeat regardless of past, present and possible future events?

I think that's a good point; so often protaganists are presented as vicious, emotion-free killing machines. I suppose that's to reinforce the 'bad-ass vibe', but the stereotype also can make it difficult, I guess, for developers to extend the emotional range of a character without making that character seem 'weepy ' or 'emo'.

That's probably why I enjoyed Tolten so much in the recently released Lost Odyssey; he demonstrated hints of actually being a person; uncertainty, insecurity, confusion, ineptness, bumbling attempts at 'belonging' - his immediate response to a Very Bad Situation was not to mindlessly slaughter everyone that might, through the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon, be associated with the bad situation while spouting one-liners. His response was to look around in confusion and fear and appear to be about to defecate in his royal trousers, which was greatly appreciated.

I had a similar 'lifting of the veil with the unexpected appearance of close-to-actual-real-person-behavior' moments in Silent Hill 3, when Heather jumped and shrieked in shock when she fired a gun at a monster - the sound and the recoil of the gun frightened her, even though she was the one that pulled the trigger. She responded as someone who has never fired a gun might; jump and yell a little in fear and surprise at the incredible noise. Was her response 'emo'? If so, I'll take a double helping.

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Puce Moose wrote:

I think that's a good point; so often protaganists are presented as vicious, emotion-free killing machines. I suppose that's to reinforce the 'bad-ass vibe', but the stereotype also can make it difficult, I guess, for developers to extend the emotional range of a character without making that character seem 'weepy ' or 'emo'.

That's probably why I enjoyed Tolten so much in the recently released Lost Odyssey; he demonstrated hints of actually being a person; uncertainty, insecurity, confusion, ineptness, bumbling attempts at 'belonging' - his immediate response to a Very Bad Situation was not to mindlessly slaughter everyone that might, through the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon, be associated with the bad situation while spouting one-liners. His response was to look around in confusion and fear and appear to be about to defecate in his royal trousers, which was greatly appreciated.

I was about to invoke Lost Odyssey, but you beat me to it. People kept calling Kaim emo. Seriously? Because he's indifferent, emotionally distant/distraught under the surface?

I often think these days...

emotionally complex == emo

And that is sad. I just finished COD4. I'm playing through Half Life 2 right now. Both have great stories, so I'm not saying anything bad about these games. But more complex emotions in games would be nice. Oh, and less shooting. I think aside from goofing around in GTAIV multiplayer and Halo 3 MP I need to lay off shooters. I'm kind of burnt out on the emotion-free killing machines.

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LobsterMobster wrote:
But to answer your question, people call JRPG protagonists emo because they spend more time monologuing melodramatically about how sad they are than actually getting their sh*t in line.

I've seen my share of melodramatic characters so I do understand what you mean. I've played a game or five in which emotions were poorly expressed and completely killed depressing moments. But it seems like some people are applying it to any situation in which a main character shows a hint of humanity. It's as if those who actively use the term don't understand it's proper meaning either. It confuses me all the time when someone tries to describe a character as emo because it literally means different things to different people. The worst is asking someone why X character is emo because I'll always get responses like "Waa! My girlfriend died!" The conversation pretty much ends right there. :/

DSGamer brought up a perfect example of this: Kaim. I too have heard others call him emo. Why? Because someone close to him died and he got upset. Really?

Puce Moose wrote:
I think that's a good point; so often protaganists are presented as vicious, emotion-free killing machines. I suppose that's to reinforce the 'bad-ass vibe', but the stereotype also can make it difficult, I guess, for developers to extend the emotional range of a character without making that character seem 'weepy ' or 'emo'.

That's the way I see it too. The problem is having an expectation of how the heroes and villains should act. "See this guy right here? This guy is going to kick ass and chew bubblegum... And he's all out of gum." Eventually, they're going to be baffled when the character suddenly bursts into tears over the death of his friend. Less weeping, more ass kicking please!

Coincidentally, I don't think I've ever heard someone call a female character emo. I guess crying is expected of them?

Great. Now I want to go finish Lost Odyssey.

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Mystic Violet wrote:
Coincidentally, I don't think I've ever heard someone call a female character emo.

Oh, I dunno, Paine from FFX-2 could be considered emo.

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To me, it's the pointless brooding and posing which annoys me to the point that I might call someone in a game "emo". However, the word is ridiculously used these days, there isn't a point, really. It's just bad writing. FF VIII's protagonist comes to mind, but Kaim is far too engaging and well-written to be put off like that.

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Mystic Violet wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:
But to answer your question, people call JRPG protagonists emo because they spend more time monologuing melodramatically about how sad they are than actually getting their sh*t in line.

I've seen my share of melodramatic characters so I do understand what you mean. I've played a game or five in which emotions were poorly expressed and completely killed depressing moments. But it seems like some people are applying it to any situation in which a main character shows a hint of humanity. It's as if those who actively use the term don't understand it's proper meaning either. It confuses me all the time when someone tries to describe a character as emo because it literally means different things to different people. The worst is asking someone why X character is emo because I'll always get responses like "Waa! My girlfriend died!" The conversation pretty much ends right there. :/

jlaakso wrote:
To me, it's the pointless brooding and posing which annoys me to the point that I might call someone in a game "emo". However, the word is ridiculously used these days, there isn't a point, really. It's just bad writing.

The problem with a lot of RPGs - and i'm assuming that Lobster is talking solely about Eastern RPGs since i've never seen a Western RPG having a character labelled with the emo tag - is that the society that created them is vastly different in terms of expressing their emotions. So when the game is translated a western gamer will not tend to appreciate the pacing and type of exposition taking place.

I guess this is the reason for all those long stares and pauses in DBZ...

As for Western RPGs and games, we tend to get our emotions out of the way quickly (indeed, even in society itself) or ignore them entirely by suppressing them into a(n un)controlled rage.

Neither way is perfect but i'd wager that its probably one of the reasons why traditionally western games don't sell so well in Japan.

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As some have stated it is hard not to label a character Emo when most games have been made,for years, without any kinda of emotional backdrop at all: good cops who do the dirty justice, good space marines who do the dirty job, ace pilots,footbal managers(), yellow savage circles eating ghosts without remorse( ),etc and only recently have producers tried to make us connected to the characters we play(and most of it it's still the effort of RPG's).

Also it is hard to get used to a guy who feals sorry about killing some one or is afraid to even shoot some one, when we've slaughtered millions before(with superior skills even from un-trained scientists, no offence to HL) and all we got were slightly humorous 1 liners with a superior tone ("aaaaahhhhhh your self" anyone?) also it must be noted that most people don't wish to be reminded that life is a bi*ch when playing a game(after all would you shoot some one in muliplayer or play final fantasy 8 after your girl/boy friend left you?)

Emotions are quite easy to apply to a game if your willing to go past what the game shows you:

how many humans die when a battleships explodes?(Starcraft)
how many people were maning the ship you just sank? (silent hunter)
how many of the germans you shot had families waiting for them? (MoH,CoD,etc)
how painfull must it have been for your star player to get his leg broken? (...etc)
how much death and distruction would a nuclear missile be responsible after you drop it on the city the enemies base is in? (red alert)
what are my hoplites thinking when i send them against an army of hydras(AoM)

do my soldiers/allies/enemis curse my name or think of their familes when they die in huge explosions or gunned down on my orders?

and so on... these questions can be applied to all games so far if we so chose, however recent games take that choice away from us and we get hit in the face with emotions,questions and actions that makes us question our actions and our selves, and some peoples don't like that, they refuse to play a 'loser' char (in their eyes) althow he acts as most will have acted had they been in his situation (familiy slaughtered, betrayed,etc)
Most people don't wish to act like they would normaly act in real life, they enjoy doing what they want without fear of remorse or repercutions for just a couple of hours a day (probably why GTA is so popular)

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Mystic Violet wrote:
That's the way I see it too. The problem is having an expectation of how the heroes and villains should act. "See this guy right here? This guy is going to kick ass and chew bubblegum... And he's all out of gum." Eventually, they're going to be baffled when the character suddenly bursts into tears over the death of his friend. Less weeping, more ass kicking please!

Coincidentally, I don't think I've ever heard someone call a female character emo. I guess crying is expected of them?

Crying doesn't make you emo, constant pensive moping does. Female characters are more likely to be portrayed as vulnerable than aggressively depressive.

I think people's problem with Lost Odyssey isn't that Kaim isn't a mindless ass-kicking hero, it's that he spends a lot of the beginning of Lost Odyssey brooding and refusing to take any joy in anything. This isn't emotional depth, it's just self-pity. He does deepen into a better character later on, but who has time to play more than an hour or two into a game these days?

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Switchbreak wrote:
He does deepen into a better character later on, but who has time to play more than an hour or two into a game these days?

I haven't played the game but... surely you could just play more of one game rather than 1-2 hours of several?

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LobsterMobster wrote:
An emo is someone who reacts to problems (real or perceived) with an exaggerated sense of despondency and frustration, and makes sure everyone around them knows it. Melodrama, basically.
That sounds like every teenager, ever.

LobsterMobster wrote:
There's also a fashion facet to it; simple black clothing, horn-rimmed glasses, and a sort of hairstyle that covers one eye (emos will tell you that this represents how everyone who is not emo goes about life half-blind, unwilling to give up their happy little lives in exchange for enlightenment and the revelation that everything sucks).
I'm pretty convinced that the modern-day use of "emo" comes back to fashion. That's really all it is. Normal teenagers with bad haircuts and bad taste in music (e.g., pop-punk bands that scream some of their lyrics for a super-dramatic, pained effect). They'll probably look back and laugh in a few years.

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DSGamer wrote:
emotionally complex == emo

In a culture as macho as that of America, particularly during a war, showing any sort of emotion can become "melodrama." Female characters are supposed to be weepy and overly emotional. Why else would they make stupid decisions that require the protagonist to fix?

Palora wrote:
how many humans die when a battleships explodes?(Starcraft)

Judging by the relative size of the battlecruiser? 2.

Palora wrote:
how many of the germans you shot had families waiting for them? (MoH,CoD,etc)

Yeah, NAZI families!

Palora wrote:
how much death and distruction would a nuclear missile be responsible after you drop it on the city the enemies base is in? (red alert)

Having modded Red Alert (the first one) fairly extensively, I can tell you that a nuke does less damage than an anti-personnel mine.

Palora wrote:
what are my hoplites thinking when i send them against an army of hydras(AoM)

Nothing nice, I'd imagine.

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LobsterMobster wrote:

I think the reason people dislike emos is that they tend to complain about things to excess without actually doing anything about them. They also write really bad poetry, and nobody likes that.

This makes me feel emo

Palora wrote:
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DSGamer wrote:
I often think these days...

emotionally complex == emo

Hmmm... ReSharper tells me that statement always resolves as false, and can be safely removed.

Just a helpful optimization hint.

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