Inflation, fuel prices and the Bush legacy
Republicans love to say that Jimmy Carter was the worst president we've ever had. I've heard this repeated over and over and over. Often they're thinking of the energy crisis. So I ask this. If Jimmy Carter was *previously* the worst president ever, how is Bush not now the worst president ever? Seriously asking those who think Jimmy Carter was teh horrible. We have an energy crisis on part with and possibly worse than the one under Carter. An energy crisis that has food prices soaring, people starting to hoard food, people across the planet sliding into poverty or starving. I watched the news last night and almost every story was either related to fuel prices or the credit crisis. I was barely a kid during the energy crisis, so maybe things were just as bad then. Or maybe our low unemployment rate (not counting those that quit looking for work) skews things. Or maybe the fact that have borrowed our way to a lifestyle that "feels" like we've made it, even when we have a precarious economic situation.
I'm seriously and objectively curious, though, if those who think Carter was awful now believe Bush has taken the mantle just based on this criteria. And if not, why not?
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Edwin wrote:
Thats ok, we don't have woods here.
boogle wrote:
But you do have hobos. I hear riding over hobos can be very technical.
I wonder whether people that are that dogmatic about Carter would be objective about this anyway...
You reminded me of this.
dejanzie- "Let's say Stephen Hawking is after your new pc, and your porn is backed up- would you find it wrong to shoot him?"
LiquidMantis- "Hell no. I'd push over his wheelchair then teabag him while shouting, 'Here's your universe in a nutshell!'"
President Bush is not responsible for increased world wide demand for crude oil. When the savior, I mean Senator Obama is elected, he will not be able to control world wide demand for oil. We have subsidized ethanol which is a very inefficient use of our resources. We need to stop paying farmers to grow crops that people do not want, and have them use their land and kapital to produce products that people have a demand for.
President bush is a baboon but not responsible for this. I think Carter is a baboon for different reasons.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
Somewhat true, but it does point to the abject failure of his much-touted energy policy. Not to mention his foreign policy, environmental policy, and economic policy.
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I don't think the President's economic policies have much to do with the macro economy at all. Our economy is too big. The Iraq war, has done more to the economy than Bush's "economic" policies have done to hurt/help. I do not really believe in fiscal policies, I'm much more of a monetarist. Bush's environmental policy really isn't any different than what our policies have been, congress and both parties have been feeding the ethanol lobby for a long time and it needs to stop. There is no need for the government to subsidize the market. It will just lead to government failure, which is showing now.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
I think you underestimate the influence of the baboon in chief. If it wasn't for his misadventure into Iraq and his saber rattling vis Iran, I think we could pretty well count on there not being nearly the instability premium on petrochemicals there is today.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
I don't agree. I think that if we never went to Iraq, prices would still be high due to the increased demand from countries such as China and India. Would they be as high? No. But, they'd still be high.
I want prices to go higher. We will never change our buying habits and the market won't move if oil continues to be relatively cheap. The best way to promote conservation is through prices.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
Bush's environmental policies are radical departures from post-Reagan ones. The reason you don't see them in the press much is that he's prevented the EPA from litigating; he's muzzled government scientists; and most of the voluminous rules changes have been by Executive Order and forced reinterpretation of laws, rather than legislation. He's gutted the environmental rules and standards.
If we're using the same criteria for judgement (energy crisis + inflation), then yes Bush is just as awful.
Psychotic Foreign Teenage Chicks are so hot. - Legion
I find it ironic anytime a healthy vaccinated person bitches about science...on the internet. - MaverickDago
It seems to me that the identified problems have resulted from a hot world economy driven to a sizable degree from an overstimulated American economy. I don't think the tax cuts helped the currency, and to the extent we all look to imported goods to support our lifestyles then whoever helped drive down the value of the dollar bears some of the blame here. I can't say that's all Bush's fault.
Then again, I think Carter got handed a pretty sh*tty deck by circumstances outside his control. Carter had to deal with oil shocks, the initial crumbling of the manufacturing base, the culture wars between social conservatives and the women's rights and free love types, school busing and racial issues, and Iranians seizing hostages that our military was culturally unequipped to rescue. Not an easy time to be president.
By comparison all Bush had was 9/11, which was, if anything, something that helped prop up his presidency at no political cost to him. It wasn't a cause of conflict so much as a cudgel he could use against the opposition. The guy has had it easy and STILL managed to come out with the lowest approval ratings ever.
The fact that we import so many goods should mean our dollar is STRONGER than the exchange currency. If anything, the weak dollar has been good for the economy and helps the country increase our exports.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
Except that it makes it more difficult for us to afford the very necessary commodities that make our economy possible.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
Tnough it is true that there are structural issues that are driving the price of oil and other commodities higher, things in Bush's control certainly DID have at least the potential for impact and he simply blew it. As I mentioned before, the war in Iraq and the threat of war in Iran is pumping up the instability premium. Deficit spending and the weakening othe US dollar is making foreign commodity prices less affordable. And Bush's mollycoddling of the oil industry has actually stunted development in alternative energy rather than easing us into a technologies that could have the impact of softening the landing.
If you are true to your word and would like to see behaviors change due to scarcity, the proper course of action would have been to advocate a gas consumption tax 7 years ago (possibly as a way of paying for this fcuked up war?). This would have had the benefit of reducing the deficit, increasing cost (thus tamping down demand), and fueling innovation in fuel efficient vehicles.
Bush did exactly the opposite. He deficit spent, heavily subsidized the oil and gas industry, and removed any incentives for American companies to innovate in making fuel efficient vehicles.
Worst .... president.... ever.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
I think you're underestimating the uncertainty the war has injected into the oil market. Crude oil was $26 a barrel in January 2001 and was $94 a barrel in January 2008. And it's gone up 22% since then. The odd thing is that oil prices were pretty stable in the mid-20s range until our little adventure in Iraq started in 2003. Only then did prices start to go through the roof.
I want prices to go higher so that we do change our habits, as well. But we don't need to wait for the market to make that happen. We can simply raise the federal tax on gasoline and then let the average American decide if it makes sense to drive their Canyonero everywhere.
Paleo, I think this may be before your time, but I did advocate that before the Iraq war. I think we should have a consumption tax.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
Then, at least to some significant extent, you HAVE to agree that Bush has done EVERYTHING wrong in regards to governing the parts of the economy to which he had control. Tax cut and deficit spend was possibly the worst course of action one could have taken and, not only did he do it, he established it as unchallengable party orthodoxy.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
I've said that I agree with his first round of tax cuts, but that was also based on at the time, I believed he wouldn't decided to spend the hell out of our GDP as well. I think that Bush's turning the Republican party the party of BIG GOVERNMENT and the party of DEFICIT SPENDING is awful and he is squarely to blame and will take a generation to recover from. The fact that if a candidate runs as a small government, less spending, pro-growth candidate, that the outlets like the Weekly Standard and National Review will beat him to death is sad.
I am with Bruce Bartlett and other Republicans who think that overall, Bush has been a mistake.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
A mistake is "oops, I got the wrong kind of detergent." Bush is far far worse than a mistake.
DSGamer GWJ Live
Edwin wrote:
boogle wrote:
It helps some exports, but since we can't substitute local production for all imports, it causes the cost of goods to rise overall (also keep in mind that even big exporters like Boeing and the like use considerable content made overseas in products it exports as finished goods). Assets become cheaper versus their foreign equivalents, and national wealth falls. The cost of borrowing international capital goes up, making capital more expensive. The average worker ends up losing purchasing power. So there are benefits, but there are also serious downsides.
I think you have to look at the net benefits/costs associated with a strong or weak currency and examine whether, as I said above, it fits with the lifestyle we want to maintain.
His entire presidency and legacy in one word.
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Please, please, please tell me that is a photoshop. Please.
Somewhere on a deep ocean vent no man has ever seen, God smites a small colony of tube worms because you masturbate.-JoeBedurndurn, on sin
Why are you acting surprised? Has this guy done anything to the contrary?
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No, I was hoping that the man was not a completely retarded monkey. Stupid, yes. Retarded, no. Apparently I was wrong.
Somewhere on a deep ocean vent no man has ever seen, God smites a small colony of tube worms because you masturbate.-JoeBedurndurn, on sin
"Goddamn I thought we were gonna eat first."
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It's photoshopped, look closely at his right elbow, and the pressure wrinkle on his left chest. Either that or someone caught him raising his hand.
My favorite guy is the grey-haired dude behind him checking his wallet. Under the coat? What a dork.
How exactly are we supposed to change our gas consumption habits any more? At $3.50 a gallon where I live, I've cut back as much as I can, but I still have to go to work and go to the grocery store. If the gas prices continue to rise... well I just don't know. I can't quit my job and I can't not buy groceries.. What about the people that are already facing that decision?
I should get points for admitting he's my brother...
Mixolyde (7:28:44 PM): put me in your profile!
Tigger1fic (7:30:05 PM): say something worth putting in my profile!
Mixolyde (7:32:21 PM): how about Tigger: Forgetting about tact since 1980
The answer is dramatically. The real estate market here is undergoing a subtle, but fundamental shift.
Before, the real estate mantra used to be "drive 'til you qualify". That being to move further and further out into the exurbs until you were able to afford the house you wanted. In order for those folks to haul around the pallets of mulch, gaggle of rugrats, and ton of Costco groceries in a car that would survive the inevitable 80 mph crash when the ritalin sniffing soccer mom fell asleep behind the wheel, they needed the GMC Deathstar(tm) at all 4mpg.
Now, the most acute foreclosure pains are being felt in those very faraway cantons. Urban or near urban neighborhoods are becoming hot properties as folks are starting to realize the "real" cost of living in West Virginia and commuting to DC.
Though I agree with Ulairi that this is a shift that reflects real costs and rational asset values, the acute pain of this bust and the destruction of people's lives could have been avoided had the president and rubber stamp congress had instituted a gas tax (something, btw, Gore was roundly villified and demonized for). It would have had the added advantage of bring us closer to fiscal sanity.
Worst.... president....ever.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
I don't know I can go buy gasoline right now, and as much as I want if I'm willing to pay for it. When it gets rationed I'll think about ranking Bush with Carter.
What's with the little girl in the Mummy position?
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
Are you even capable of thinking without using the worst cliches possible?
Psychotic Foreign Teenage Chicks are so hot. - Legion
I find it ironic anytime a healthy vaccinated person bitches about science...on the internet. - MaverickDago
Not sure what to tell you. My wife and I (not being smug, just being honest) worked hard to put ourselves in a position where we wouldn't be reliant on gas. We can walk to the bus and take mass transit to work. We can skateboard to mass transit or bike to mass transit. About 50% of the time these days I bike all the way to work and don't even pay the $2.00 mass transit cost. We often get groceries via bike or walk to the movies. It's just part of the fabric of our lives.
But even with that food prices are through the roof for us. It's to the point where we have noticed that we're cutting back drastically on all kinds of unnecessary purchases. Eating out, going to the movies, stuff like that. And that's the freaky thing. We live a charmed life, IMO. No kids, we can bike to work and we're dual income professionals. And WE'RE cutting back. Dramatically. I can't imagine what people with less means than us are doing, honestly. That's what scares me the most. To know that this is hitting *us* hard and we have means far above most people and a situation setup to our advantage.
DSGamer GWJ Live
Edwin wrote:
boogle wrote:
I live in the suburbs, though, and he's not far off. My wife and I are looked at like freaks because we live in the suburbs and bike to work, bike to get groceries from Costco (depending on what you get that's possible and funny too, imagine the looks people give you).
DSGamer GWJ Live
Edwin wrote:
boogle wrote: