Need ideas for a gaming laptop (Leased? Apple? Dell? Alienware? Other?)
The company I work for is making a big push into the gaming industry as a middleware developer and I drastically need to update 14 of our employees with laptops that are powerful enough to run modern games & our development environments. The trick though, is that we're looking for the best bang for our buck and not looking to spend thousands of dollars. We also want to avoid potential issues with overheating and poor manufacturing. I'm also curious if anyone has had any experience with business leasing laptops.
I've been looking at the latest Macbook Pro and thought that it might be an ideal candidate. Being able to boot into OSX, Win XP or Vista with no headaches would be a huge advantage for us but I'm a bit concerned about the longevity of the NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT video card and overheating issues from prolonged use. As far as I know, there's no way to update the Macbook Pro's video card...right?
Also, I've been looking at some of these other laptops listed below and would appreciate any feedback you guys might have.
Thank you very much for any help or opinions!
http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/area-51_m9750/area-51m_ove...
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1530?c=u...
http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/area-51_m15x/area-51m_over...
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt
Witchlight Cycle: Sithis of the Thelis'Thale Clan, Dragonborn Paladin of Moradin
Why laptops? I have never heard of using laptops in a development environment. A big reason is that they are really hard to upgrade. Macs are doubly hard to upgrade as they often solder in everything, except the RAM.
I would suggest talking to someone over at like 1Up, one of the CGW/GFW guys. As well as E-mailing different vendors and seeing what they may have to offer as far as loans and leases. FalconNorthwest, Voodoo Extreme, HP.
I do not know about for use in development, but they often loan their computers out to different outlets.
Mostly its a flexibility issue. We operate a telecommunication network and its faster to organize ourselves online & debug a critical problem from home in the middle of the night than it is to get everyone to drive into the office. It's also nice being able to telecommute and code from home when one of your kids are sick or your having car problems or you are chilling out watching TV.
Our current equipment is more than adequate for the variety of environments we used to work in (Flash/Flex,Visual Studio C#, MySQL) but now that we are repurposing our software we need hardware capable of DirectX 9 & 10 gaming. Being able to work with OSX would be a huge benefit as well.
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt
Witchlight Cycle: Sithis of the Thelis'Thale Clan, Dragonborn Paladin of Moradin
Dell owns Alienware, and after our recent bout with support(we paid for the holy crap warranty, and it still took over 2 weeks to fix a bad video card, and that's only because the wife a)knows a former director at Dell and b)ferreted email addresses and names from places like Dell's SEC filings), there is no way in hell I'd ever buy another ANYTHING from Dell.
It was a hellish descent into everything bad about customer relations and tech support. I am not exaggerating.
So I'd say steer clear of Dell (and Alienware, which Dell owns).
That said, I've used my laptop for development for the last 2 and a half years.
I've worked lots of places where developers used laptops. Upgradeability is a red herring. Devs typically get the newer machines and everything else gets handed down, based on need and seniority.
Laptops are perfectly suited to dev machines, with the added bonus that the devs can take them home and do work from home or a client site if needed(or if they just like to do some extra codeslinging in their off time while watching Heroes).
But don't buy a Dell.
We're even going to sell our stock.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
Well if you're getting a MBP or Alienware etc then you're spending $2000 easy so I'm not sure what you want jives with your budget.
To save money and have a more upgradeable solution consider building/buying some Shuttle case-sized pcs that are fairly easily transportable back and forth. And probably much cheaper than a laptop. I assume programmers would have their own monitors at home and you probably already have some at work? And if you don't well I would imagine a small Shuttle-sized pc plus monitor is much cheaper than a $2000+ laptop.
Get an extra power cord/mouse/keyboard so you don't have to transport those back and forth either.
I would imagine a 9600gt is pretty doable in a Shuttle-sized case, but that's something that would need to be checked out. (Heat issues and all.)
I was about to chime in with a Micro ATX build. You can buy extended warranties on the parts(2-3 years on processors, video cards). They are made to give you more portability than a mid-tower, with the benefits of desktop part prices and upgradeability.
Most of them are not much larger than a couple of gamecubes stacked up.
You gain a lot as well. You will be able to test these computers on a variety of displays, optimally. And even if you buy these with 2 monitors(one for the office, one for home) you will still be out ahead(price wise) compared to a laptop with half the power.
You get one of these with 2 gigs of memory, a fast(2.4, 2.6 GHZ) AMD processor, a 8800GT or a HD 3870, and a solid 500 W power supply, 80 gig hard drive, and Vista you are talking around 600-700 a box.
And as these are for business, buying in Bulk, you may be able to square a deal with a store.
If it must be laptops, AsusTek builds a pretty nice gaming rig and for a few bucks less than the competition.
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Wow, I guess everyone has different takes on Dell. For me Dell has been hands down the best support I've received from any company. With my XPS Laptop I got the "Holy Crap" 3 year warranty as well, and when I had video card issues the tech was here the next day replacing it with an upgraded model. Same thing when I stepped on my power bar and bend the cord, a new one was at my house within a couple days.
I've also had a Dell LCD with a Power Supply issue. Even without the holy crap warranty they gladly shipped a replacement model and told me to toss the old one in the box.
I'm sure it's like that for every company though, you get extremely polarized results depending on who you deal with, I wish it wasn't that way. Sony has been hands down the most brutal for any sort of customer service in my books, but I'm sure I'd have 10 people telling me about their wonderful experiences as soon as I dropped that bomb
I'm going to have to go with KingGorilla on this one too, maybe a small portable system might be better than a laptop? As much as I love my laptop for gaming, I know i'm severely limited in the next few years, and it's going to become an expensive paperweight. If you want a really, really beefy system you still have to go desktop. You need a couple small core reactors powering any modern game these days it seems, and laptops only have so much space to work with.
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You could put a good gaming-level PC on each person's work desk AND home desk for what it costs to put a gaming laptop in each person's hands - and the laptop would still underperform the desktops.
Plus, the desktops can be upgraded, very easily and relatively cheaply with a little foresight.
"Gaming laptops" and "bang for the buck" don't go together.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: Blast Processing - www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB | PSN: Legion_SB
"Damn, your comedic timing is awesome." -- Spaz, *Legion* Fan #1437
Yeah but I should post my research online. I found some killer deals on the Dell XPS M1530 ($999 stock) and amazingly enough, Alienware m9750 ($1399 stock). My boss decided to reign in the budget so now I have about $1500 per person to work with. He also made the decree that he wants laptops.
One thing that I found intriguing was that Apple offers a 24 month 0% interest business leasing program where after 2 years we can send back the hardware or buy it at fair market value. That sort of pushes Mac into the "feasible" camp considering we're a startup with limited funds that could benefit from the ability to swap out to the latest hardware in two years while supporting a relatively cheap monthly payment. That beats paying $30000 up front by going with ~$600 a month for two years (which is approx ~$15000) and having a built-in upgrade path.
I'm just collating data though, ultimately it isn't my decision. But boy would I like a Mac.
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt
Witchlight Cycle: Sithis of the Thelis'Thale Clan, Dragonborn Paladin of Moradin
I've had a good experience with Dell. My Dell 9300 laptop was a great workhorse and the video card was able to be upgraded to a newer generation. The 9300 was the same as the XPS line minus some of the niceties. I upgraded the video card from a 6800 vanilla to a 6800 ultra. That was then upgraded to a 7900. I had to do some work to do it (upgrade the power supply and video card heat sink) but that's way better than most laptops which can't be upgraded at all. Any issues I had were taken care of within a few days (broken keyboard was the only one).
We used Dells where I worked previously and had a wonderful experience. We use dells where I work now and have had another wonderful experience. Both places were educational institutions. Dell has always been quick to send a part and quick to send a technician when necessary (they like to replace some parts with their own techs). We've had better luck with Dell than with Lenovo (IBM). Our T60s had a higher fail rate than our 15" dell laptops.
I would look at the XPS 15" laptop or the Inspiron 17" model. Both can be configured with pretty good graphics cards.
My current work machine (used for web development mostly) is an Apple Macbook Pro. It is a wonderful machine. Thin, light, powerful, excellent screen. It can boot pretty much any os out there. I love it. I'm very happy I didn't pay for it, though. It is not a value laptop. Great laptop, though. It can't be upgraded easily. Video card can't be upgraded at all. My favorite things about it are the power to weight ratio (2.4ghz c2d/8600 at 5.3lbs) and the keyboard. Dell keyboards suck. While not as nice as the keyboard on my Lenovo T60 this is a very nice keyboard.
Most laptops cannot upgrade the video card. The current dell models are, imo, the most likely to be able to be upgraded in the future.
Dell is blowing out the XPS 1530's right now. I'm assuming that they're clearing stock for the new Intel chipset (Naehelm?) I know that's what they're doing on the business side. I bought one. With discount, employee purchase program, free shipping and 12 months same as cash, it was a steal.
While I do not regret the purchase in any way, I don't know if I'd consider it for "Road Warrior" use. Some parts of the case, like the top corners of the LCD front bezel, feel like they'd snap if you squeezed them with any real force.
That Apple deal does sound pretty nice. It would really rock if Apple's depreciated heavily ("fair market value"), but they don't tend to.
Strange I haven't heard of the 1530s. Do they have 8600M gts? I'm on a dell laptop 1400$ 2.0ghz dual core 8600M gt, its not an xps its an inspiron 1520 with pretty much the most upgrades you can get on it. Cheaper than the xpses but with better specs (than the lower end ones). Also check out possibly doing this with their business side laptops because if I remember correctly ...
Just checked their site, you can boost a Vostro up to the specs that my pc has for 900 bucks!
http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/vostronb_15...
Check out the second one and fool around with specs.
Your friendly neighbourhood hair splitting singularity.
They can. I got my E1705 with a core duo in it a long time ago for barely over $1k. 17", 1920x1200 display, 7900GS. It plays UT2k4 at full resolution with everything cranked, Dawn of War runs great, and Company of Heroes works really well too. I've also got C&C3 and Titan Quest on it both of which run great. Oh, and Civ IV.
XBLive: Thin J
PSN: Thin_J
I don't imagine master craftsmen leaping away from completed projects and shouting "Done, motherf*ckers! - 1Dgaf
Indeed. I got my XPS 1710 and afterwards found out people were getting the 1705 and simply upgrading the graphics card for what was pretty much the same system minus a few bells and whistles. My 7900GTX recently crapped out so they gave me a 7950GTX, and that sucker still handles stuff with the best of them in 1920x1200 goodness
It's going to be sad when I finally have to retire it in a year or so, but I've definitely gotten my fair use out of it.
XBL: Swat R2 PSN: swatr2
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256MB 8600M GT in mine. T9300 (2.5Ghz Penryn), 3G RAM, 200? 7200RPM HDD, and a screen upgrade (don't remember which one). 3 year "oops I dropped it" warranty, and it was around $1400-1500.
We considered the Dell Vostro but we need an integrated webcam.
Not sure if you guys have seen this. The specs are an absolute screamer (except the cpu but I think its upgradable) but at 9.2 lbs you don't want to be lugging it through an airport trying to make a connecting flight.
Gateway P-6860FX (BestBuy Exclusive)
1349.99
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor1 T5550 (1.83GHz, 667MHz FSB, 2MB L2 Cache)
Genuine Microsoft® Windows® Vista™ Home Premium (64-bit) SP1
4096MB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2-2048MB modules)5
320GB 5400RPM Serial ATA II hard drive with 8MB cache (1-320GB)6
8x Multi-Format Dual Layer DVDRW with DVD-RAM featuring Labelflash™ Technology4
NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800M GTS with 512MB of GDDR3 discrete video memory 512MB GDDR3
17.0" WXGA+ Ultrabright TFT Active Matrix (1440 x 900 max. resolution)
1 Year Parts and Labor Limited Warranty8 1.3"-1.70" (H) x 15.75" (W) x 11.75"
9.2 lbs. (4.2 kg)
My company still hasn't made an official decision but I think the Gateway might be our best choice for dev work. And again, thanks for the tips!
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt
Witchlight Cycle: Sithis of the Thelis'Thale Clan, Dragonborn Paladin of Moradin
I am loving my Dell 1530 and while I paid a little more than I originally intended when I started looking for laptops, I have yet to regret it. 2.4 ghz penryn core 2 duo, 3 gigs of ram and an 8600 gt. I got what was the highest rez screen with it at 1680 by 1050 and it's looks fantastic. Apparently now you can get even higher rez versions!
I started TF2 up on it when I first got it and and it worked like a charm. Even with Vista as the operating system I have yet to have any problems with it (knock on wood). It just works!
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I really dig my MBP and OS X. If you want to game, I run Vista on boot camp and I'm able to play TF2, LOTRO, and CoH perfectly. I just wish I had the 17" high res display for gaming.
For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988
Help save me from myself. I am also in need of a new gaming laptop. I think I've narrowed it down to a Sager and a ASUS. This computer will be living at home and won't travel much, but allows me to game in bed (woot!). Nothing says fun like TF2 in bed!
This will be replacing an old Sager laptop which was a desktop replacement, (really heavy 11+ lbs) and ran extra hot. I'd prefer something that ran a little cooler (but understand that with what I want out of the laptop -- solid gaming) this is probably a pipe dream. In any case, here are the two finalists (both in the $2000-2250 price range; both speced out about the same):
Sager NP5793 Custom Sager Notebook (Built on Clevo M570RU-U / M571RU-U)
- 17" WUXGA "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1920x1200)
- ~Intel® T9300 45nm "Penryn" Core™2 Duo 2.5GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 8700GT DX10
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 667 PC2 5300 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
- ~ 320GB 5400RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 8MB Cache)
- ~Windows Vista Ultimate 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
8.35LBs With Battery
ASUS G Series G2Sg-A1 NoteBook Intel Core 2 Duo T9300(2.50GHz)
CPU Type Intel Core 2 Duo T9300 2.5G
Operating System Windows Vista Ultimate
Screen 17" WUXGA
Memory Size 4GB DDR2
Hard Disk 320GB
Optical Drive DVD Super Multi
Graphics Card NVIDIA GeForce 8700M GT
Video Memory 512MB
Weight 9.7 lbs.
The Sager is -- suprisingly -- a little lighter.
Anybody have any guidance? Anybody think I am making a mistake and want to suggest a different computer?
Also, I wasn't anticipating picking up the 64-bit Vista Ultimate but in comes with the laptops. Will the fact that it is 64-bit be a problem for gaming? Sorry for the newbie questions.
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Edgar
Gamer Tag -- Edgar Newt
I really like the truthful advertising on the Sager... "Glare Type", heh. That alone would swing me in their direction. Plus, I don't trust ASUS anymore. Their hardware is generally good, but their driver support is terrible. And they're known to outright lie about their specs now, on occasion. The motherboard I'm running now was falsely advertised to me as having better features than it actually has. So, of the two, I'd strongly prefer the Sager.
Vista will tend to give you gaming headaches in general; it runs slower and takes many more resources to accomplish essentially the same tasks. This laptop will never do DX10 well (nothing currently out does), so I'd suggest sticking with XP32. You lose some of the RAM, but you're saving so much OS footprint that it's probably a wash, and you'll get better gaming performance.
Thanks Malor. That is exactly the type of insight I came to the board to grab.
I was happy with old Sager (its from 2003 or 2004 if I remember correctly), but heavy, loud and hot. I figure every gaming laptop rig is going to be at least heavy and loud.
On a separate but related note, I priced out an Alienware with similar specs (notwithstanding the Alienware "magic" and brand) and it was at least $1000 more expensive. My company's employee discount of 5% off Alienware doesn't come close to making a dent.
Thanks again for your help.
Much appreciated.
Gamer Tag -- Edgar Newt
Alienware used to get their chassis from Sager, not sure if they still do.
And Alienware is owned by Dell, so I'm not sure how that's affected their quality/supply chain/support, if at all.
I loved talking to someone in America when I had a question about my old Alienware desktop. Ahh, the good old days.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
Was that with a crazy $750 off coupon like the one I bought my Dell laptop with a few years ago?
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: Blast Processing - www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB | PSN: Legion_SB
"Damn, your comedic timing is awesome." -- Spaz, *Legion* Fan #1437
Yeah, $750 off any E series laptop purchase over $2,000. Plus there was another $100 coupon that worked along with it. So I customized the E1705 to like $2,005 and fired up the coupon codes. Still happy with the machine now too
XBLive: Thin J
PSN: Thin_J
I don't imagine master craftsmen leaping away from completed projects and shouting "Done, motherf*ckers! - 1Dgaf
I'd be pretty happy with that too. Mine's a Pentium-M powered Inspiron. It can play Civ4 and Sins! ... But that's about it.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: Blast Processing - www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB | PSN: Legion_SB
"Damn, your comedic timing is awesome." -- Spaz, *Legion* Fan #1437
I ended up getting a Sager (5793 with the nVidia 8800M). Hopefully I'll be happy with it. Won't come for a few weeks. I hope people will still be playing Sins then....
Thanks again.
Edgar
Gamer Tag -- Edgar Newt