The "I need a job" post
Tuesday, April 15th, 2008 - 10:20am
I am finishing up my b.s. in computer science soon and am on the hunt for a job. I thought maybe there would be some advice on things to look for or things to point out in my resume. I had a good prospect with a data storage company here in my home town, but that appears to have gone sour (company is not doing well).
So what kind of advice do you have for me. Is monster.com (or any others) the best way for me to go or is there something that I just don't know about? I'm in a fairly small area in south Arkansas and I know I'll probably have to move to find a job suited for my degree if I don't want to be the "Company's computer guy."


Monster.com sucks. I tried it, and not only did I never get any hit for jobs I actually said I wanted but I got a enormous amounts of spam for crap jobs. Your best bet would be to attend job fairs at your college or nearby colleges. Its a great way to get your name out there and get some face-to-face time with the companies which is invaluable.
Another thing is to decide what kind of work do you want to do with your degree? If you know the kind of projects you want to work on, actively search for companies that will suit what you want. Google? Microsoft? Whatever. I would highly suggest you really put effort into finding a job you will like and not just take whatever comes your way. Otherwise it is a sure fire way to be stuck in a lame "Company's computer guy" job.
Quote:
My brother found employment with the dept of defense and other non-disclosable classified-type job titles. He was the computer guy while building a foundation, got into AOL when it was growing and was pushed out when it popped, but he was there long enough to get the references, experience, etc.. Maybe being "computer guy" isn't so bad to start out, as long as you can handle fairly non-computer savvy people and otherwise nincompoops. Never did tell me how he found his jobs other then the connections he made.
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I'de say look up the companies you want to work in and E-mail or call them directly and see if there is an opening. That is the way it works in my field (3d modeling).
You ask for an interview or submit a resume and see what happens. Over here in NYC that is the way to do it because there are a ton of people trying to get jobs. Yahoo hot jobs and monster are total trash, and like tkyl, I get spam like crazy because of them.
Thanks for standin' still!
-XBox Gamertag: Tempest Blaze (Without the Y!)
Job fairs. While I was nearing graduation I put my resume on Monster.com and applied at big corporations on their websites. My resume was as good as a CS student could have(multiple internships at global corporations where they hired me after the internship period was over) and yet I heard NOTHING back. I got a lot of spam from Monster.com though.
I went to a job fair and handed out my resume, after about 1-2 months I got 4 job interviews from that and I decided to work for one of them.
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XBL: elliottxW
If I were you I would head over to Craigslist and browse the city boards for Seattle, San Francisco, Chicago and NY/Boston and the Research Triangle area (Raleigh, Durham & Chapel Hill in NC). If you want to do games, you're in striking distance of the Austin area as well. These areas, IMHO, are where you're going to see the largest concentration of work. If you have any relatives in those areas who might let you crash on their couch while you look for work, even better.
Look at the kinds of jobs that people are offering and what skill sets they want. If you want to make money quickly and have some artistic ability, my advice would be to learn Flash or the latest web services fad and put together a portfolio.
Out here in Seattle there are usually a few posts a week looking for young guys fresh out of school for generic C/Java work, and people are desperate for good Flash developers.
I never minded piracy. Anyone who minds about piracy is full of sh*t. Anyone who pirates your game wasn't going to buy it anyway! -Warren Spector
Seconded.
No, I DO NOT want to manage a restaurant!
Letters to the Internet
try
dice.com
also guru.com lets you market yourself as a freelancer
my best advice is to find a recruiter and let them do all the work for you. like
www.MyMATRIXJobs.com
Stories of Yesterday
The Home Tree
That sh*t drove me crazy on Careerbuilder and Monster. McDonalds, crappy jobs in Connecticut, insurance, and registered nurse jobs flood that crap, along with my favorite jobs: mystery shoppers, telemarketing from home, amway scams.
I DID found a job with Sony on Hotjobs that was perfect, the job was being created for this region for market research and sales. Interviewed great, call backs, then, before it was official and name put to paper... the great Sony shuffle last year took the job away due to financial retructuring in Sony.
XBox Live: MaxShrek .... Steam ID: MaxShrek
Blogging Pencil ...
As someone who has done hiring and been through umpteen million interviews on either side of the desk (Hello former consulting career!)
There are a few strategies and you should try them all:
Shotgun Approach:
Post your resume on every on-line job board that matters. Yes, even Monster.com, but also CareerBuilder.com and most any others you come across. Watch for duplicates, make sure you don't apply for the same job twice or let a recruiter submit you for a job you've already applied for.
Yes, talk to recruiters as well. Let them do some work for you. Be honest with what you want, don't feel pressured to go on an interview on their behalf. Make it clear to them when a job does not look like a fit or is something you want. Make sure they are working FOR YOU.
Sharpshooting Approach:
Hopefully your shotgunning will score a few hits. Do follow-ups with promising companies. Did they have a contact e-mail, a phone number, did someone contact you? Get back to them! If you have not heard anything in awhile, follow-up! Don't be a pest but don't assume they'll just get around to it. It's amazing how often you can get your resume to the top of the pile by simply reminding them you exist.
Pipe-Dream Approach:
What companies do you really want to go work for? Prepare a stunning cover letter and submit it to them. Do they have an office nearby? Show up and hand the resume to someone in person. You may not get any farther than HR, but it's always worth a shot. Don't ever take the attitude "They'll never hire me".
Not related to anything, you have a computer science degree? Are you young? Single? Not adverse to travel and having all of your meals and lodging paid for you? Apply with as many consulting companies as you can. I highly recommend Computer Sciences Corporation, Keane, and EDS. A lot of IBM consultants are happy campers but they don't have a good reputation and I never liked working with them myself. Avoid Accenture unless you enjoy working 80 hour weeks.
Time to reprint my interview tips -
Don't stress over technical tests. It says a lot about the culture of the company you work for and they are a total crap shoot. For what it's worth, I am going on 9 years in the industry and have won accolades, been given pretty large raises, promotions, and have many positive performance and project reviews. I have never passed a single written exam. I am still a top producer on every team I've ever joined. Those tests say more about rote memorization than it does ability. Failing one of those tests is not an indictment on your ability. It is not worth getting discouraged over.
When someone asks a technical questions, answer confidentally, but honestly. Saying "I don't know" or "I'm not familiar with that" is better than trying to bluff your way through a question. Even if you get a question wrong, if you seem positive about your answer the interviewer might follow up to determine what your thinking was behind that answer.
Smile, dammit. Look like you are glad to be there.
DO...NOT...WHINE! No one wants to hear your sob story, do NOT talk about how bad your last boss was. Most hiring managers want people with a positive outlook. It makes it more fun to break your spirit later.
Do not be afraid to talk, but do not dominate the conversation. My rule is 40/60. In other words, talk 40% of the time, let them do the other 60%. If things start to lull, ask questions and direct the conversation into areas you are comfortable with. This is very important though, the more talking you do, the more likely you will say something that is going to work against you. Some people, once they get going, can't stop themselves. At the same time, an interview is basically a chance for the prospective employer to get a feel for you. If they end up doing all the talking, they'll come away with nothing. Also, the 40/60 rule should be spread out across the interview. Do not talk for the first 40% of the interview or the last 40%. It should be give-and-take.
Tell stories. Everyone says they "learn fast" or "work hard". Illustrate your skills by giving examples or past accomplishments or challenges that you successfully overcame.
BEFORE you go into an interview think about this question - "What areas do you need to improve?" or similar. This is the absolutely worst question to go into cold. Most interviewers are going to ask this question. If you think about it ahead of time you are more likely to word it in a manner that won't scare them off.
Be flexible. I went into a technical interview ready to talk about my last project and the interviewer had an old resume with my law enforcement experience still on it and wanted to talk about my time working in the jail. Believe it or not, I managed to tie that into my experience as a programmer and used it to explain my career transition. That sort of surprise can be a disaster for some people. Don't assume the interview is going to go in any particular direction. Again, don't be afraid to ask questions or make observations that direct the interview into a comfortable area.
Don't fidget, try to avoid looking nervous. Do away with anything that might be a distraction. Do you have a bulky set of keys? A cell-phone? A PDA? Leave everything in the glovebox of your car except for the key that will let you unlock it. Basically get rid of anything that potentially takes the attention off of you. Even if a cell-phone doesn't ring, it can be distracting. The interviewer will be noticing things about you, so unnecessary bulges, items on your belt, etc. are unwanted.
This should go without saying, but clean-up beforehand. Even if you have a beard, trim it before the interview. Wash and comb your hair. Make sure your hands are clean, including under your nails. Check your appearance before going into the interview and make adjustments as necessary.
Read up on the company beforehand. Memorize some facts, get a feel for their culture. It gives them the impression that you are genuinely interested in them and not just a job. Obviously you should focus on positive aspects of the company.
Have a firm handshake. Not necessarily a crushing one. Give the impression that you are a strong and confident individual. Ladies, no excuses, this applies to you to. You don't have to break any fingers, but don't make it seem like they're shaking a dead fish.
Follow-up, especially if you thought the interview was positive. Something might open up and they'll keep you in mind if they know you are interested. Even if you end up getting rejected, occasionally they might provide some feedback.
Be honest with yourself. Give yourself an honest assessment after the interview and ask yourself what you thought worked and what didn't. Don't oversell yourself in your own mind, but beating yourself up is counter-productive to.
Unfettered Blather - Daily updated nonsense
X-Box Live Gamertag - CrazedJava
Less chatter more splatter!
Massive resume aggregating sites aren't useful until you have a resume (and they're arguably never useful). Just out of college, you don't have a resume. Getting a good first job is worth the hassle, don't be passive, find some recognizably large name companies and try to get your foot in the door. Initially, the idea of cold-calling some stranger in recruiting, or sending letters out into the void, seems awkward or intimidating, but you'll eventually get numb to it, and persistence will pay off.
XBLive: Ruckus
Check your references
Make a portfolio
Do not use attachments in emails, your email will just get deleted
Resume must be able to be read under 2 minutes
Good luck
'Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.'
Benjamin Franklin
He's fresh out of college. It will take him 2 minutes to write his resume.
Unfettered Blather - Daily updated nonsense
X-Box Live Gamertag - CrazedJava
Less chatter more splatter!
Wow, so much so fast. Seems like I need to focus my goals a little more. Ultimately it doesn't matter that much to me what I do in my first job. Sure, I would love to end up with a great job that I will enjoy and stick with for a long period. However, I don't expect to hit it right the first time. I see my first job as more of a resume builder than anything, and yes I know better than to act like that in an interview.
Truthfully I'm not entirely sure what direction I want to go in the field. Sure, I would love to try working in games, but I'm not sure my current skill set is quite up to par for that. Thought I might try to snag a generic programming job and work on some game programming & design on the side (xna, homebrew, etc..).
I've spent years working in computer repair and am currently doing bookkeeping at my current job. I mentioned before about the "company computer guy" job, that really doesn't bother me either. The problem is finding that position somewhere that it can grow into something else.
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I never minded piracy. Anyone who minds about piracy is full of sh*t. Anyone who pirates your game wasn't going to buy it anyway! -Warren Spector
I just went through the job search thing.
I updated my resume on Monster, CareerBuilder, and DICE all on the same Saturday.
The following monday, I had 30 emails and spent from 7:50 AM to 4:30 PM (when I finally had had enough) on the phone, nonstop, sometimes both cell and home phone being busy at the same time.
I got the most callbacks from Monster, closely followed by DICE, then CareerBuilder.
I had about a dozen phonescreens and half a dozen interviews in a 2-week period and took a W-2 Contract gig that will convert to Perm in 6 months or so.
Monster does NOT suck.
Yes, you will get calls from recruiters* that barely speak English offering jobs in Albania**.
Yes, you will get a LOT of calls from recruiters wanting to present you on positions you've already been presented on by the recruiter that called yesterday.
Yes, jobhunting sucks.
No, Monster does not suck.
* - Actually, I've decided these non-English-speaking callers were not actual recruiters, but outsourced "lead qualifiers", because they always wanted to hand me off to their Acct. Mgr. asap. Crappy trend, but it's out there.
** - Yes, I actually got a call from someone wanting to present me to a 6-month contract gig in Albania. Aren't there Romanian/Czech/Turkish coders that work a lot cheaper than me? I'm no superstar, but I'm not cheap, either. Besides, no, I don't want to go to Albania. Get the Elbonians to do it.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
Network. Get down to your university's alumni center or contact their alumni association. Tell them you thinking about a career in programming and you want to get advice from alumni who are doing that now on how they got started.
Follow through and treat any call or email exchange that you set up in a professional manner (i.e., ask real questions, listen to their advice, etc.) and then ask them if they could help point you in the right direction, whether it's them letting you know about any openings in their company that you might be suited for or if anyone in their network needs someone like you.
Worse case scenario is you talk to someone who helps you figure out what your first career step should be. Best case is you get a job.