World rioting over food prices

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Edwin's picture
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Quote:
ROME - Soaring food prices that have sparked unrest across the globe are likely to persist despite an expected increase in production, threatening millions of people worldwide who live on a dollar or less a day, a U.N. agency said Friday.

Prices of bread, rice, milk, oil and other basic foodstuffs have sharply increased in the past months in many developing countries, according to a report by the Rome-based Food and Agriculture Organization. Prices of wheat and rice have doubled compared to last year, while those of maize are more than a third higher.

...FAO said that farmers in developing countries should be granted better access to fertilizers, seeds and animal feed to increase local food production.

Surging food prices, further stoked by rising fuel costs, have triggered protests around the world in recent days. The increases hit poor people hardest, as food represents as much as 60-80 percent of consumer spending in developing nations, compared to about 10-20 percent in industrialized countries, the U.N. agency said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24065922/

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Quote:
Surging food prices, further stoked by rising fuel costs

They fail to point out that these two facts are very closely linked

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Location: Covered in delicious chocolate.

Now i'm thinking of that article from the NYTimes about how the impoverished in Haiti have resorted to eating dirt, essentially (clay technically). Now i'm depressed.

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Prederick wrote:
Now i'm depressed.

Eat some food. Always cheers me up.

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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL

BBC wrote:
...Food prices have risen sharply in recent months, driven by increased demand, poor weather in some countries that has ruined crops and an increase in the use of land to grow crops for transport fuels.

The price of staple crops such as wheat, rice and corn have all risen, leading to an increase in overall food prices of 83% in the last three years, the World Bank has said.

The sharp rises have led to protests and unrest in many countries, including Egypt, Ivory Coast, Ethiopia, the Philippines and Indonesia.

In Haiti, protests last week turned violent, leading to the deaths of five people and the fall of the government.

In the capital, Port-au-Prince, a UN peacekeeper from Nigeria was fatally shot on Saturday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7344892.stm

the soul still burns...
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souldaddy's picture
Location: where falling trees make no sound

Should change the thread title to World rioting over food prices. It's damned scary.

Ethanol subsidies don't affect food prices as much as simply gas prices. I'm not sure why things are getting so bad, has anyone found an economic analysis of the issue yet?

EDIT: ethanol doesn't explain why rice prices have risen 75% in months....

We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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Elliottx's picture
Location: Vancouver, WA, USA, Earth, Milky Way

I thought I was just being silly in thinking that the world was going down hill. Will the impoverished rise up and slay their rich oppressors? I'd send money if I thought it would actually get to the people who needed it.

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We need more gizzleflops for the nubenhagan.

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souldaddy wrote:
Should change the thread title to World rioting over food prices. It's damned scary.

Ethanol subsidies don't affect food prices as much as simply gas prices. I'm not sure why things are getting so bad, has anyone found an economic analysis of the issue yet?

EDIT: ethanol doesn't explain why rice prices have risen 75% in months....

The Economist

World commodity prices are through the roof. A lot of farmers in the developing world stopped farming in favor of industrialized jobs. A lot of the countries affected don't produce a lot of their own food, relying on expensive importing and US/UN handouts. In many places, one bad harvest (drought, flood, etc.) can mean mass starvation.

For example, last I heard, Haiti had very little arable land left. Having cut down all their trees for fuel, erosion is killing them.

Ethanol has a lot to do with it. Ethanol is removing a lot of corn supply from the food market, so prices on corn and substitutes goes up. Fuel prices make transporting anything significantly more expensive to boot.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

souldaddy wrote:
Should change the thread title to World rioting over food prices. It's damned scary.

Ethanol subsidies don't affect food prices as much as simply gas prices. I'm not sure why things are getting so bad, has anyone found an economic analysis of the issue yet?

EDIT: ethanol doesn't explain why rice prices have risen 75% in months....

It is certainly a contributing factor, but it doesn't explain all of the delta. What's happening is a sort of perfect storm of inflationary pressures on food prices.

As you mentioned, fuel prices have a direct impact on food prices because they affect the cost of manufacturing, storage, transportation, and distribution. Those are direct, short term costs.

As others have mentioned, the subsidizing of ethanol and biodeisel for use in engines creates artificial demand for certain crops. Among them is corn. There are tortilla riots in Mexico to prove that, but more importantly, there is a certain amount of fungibility in people's staple foods. When corn is unavailable or prohibitively expensive, they switch to eating other staple grains. Also, farmers tend not to plant as much alternative staple grains when they know they can get far better return on their investment by sponging off the government subsidy. This "ethanol effect" is a more serious and longer term problem as it creates a systemic shortage by creating artificial demand. It was a policy three years already in the implementation and is only really at the midpoint in the hockey stick.

One can not ignore the influence of Chinese and Indian prosperity as well. As they both get richer, they both eat better. In particular, one needs look at the increased consumption of meat in both countries. Meat is incredibly grain intensive. Unless we see either tremendous societal changes or economic disturbance resulting in a reversal of Chinese and Indian dietary trends, we will continue to see increased consumption being a strong inflationary factor.

Another factor folks haven't mentioned yet is the effect the financial crises are having. In this season of financial turmoil, the current temporary safe haven for capital appears to be commodities. Traders have run through metals, energy, materials, and now they are hitting grain. Grain gets hit twice because it is both food and energy. This probably has the most acute effect, but is by in large a short term problem as this, as all bubbles, will eventually pop. Even still, the new floor price of grain will continue to be affected by systemic factors increasing demand.

Does that answer your question?

There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.

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Quote:
One can not ignore the influence of Chinese and Indian prosperity as well. As they both get richer, they both eat better. In particular, one needs look at the increased consumption of meat in both countries. Meat is incredibly grain intensive. Unless we see either tremendous societal changes or economic disturbance resulting in a reversal of Chinese and Indian dietary trends, we will continue to see increased consumption being a strong inflationary factor.
Even were we to end our ridiculous subsidies on corn tomorrow, I think that this would still pick up the slack. The number of Chinese thought to be moving to a protein-based diet (fortunately they like pigs rather than cows, which are a bit more efficient) is staggering and may cause the biggest shift in agriculture since the industrial revolution. In my opinion, it will lead to the rise and eventual dominance of engineered 'frankenmeat' (we're pretty close already with cows - they're getting better and better at eating corn, which they were never designed to do).

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Minase wrote:
Quote:
One can not ignore the influence of Chinese and Indian prosperity as well. As they both get richer, they both eat better. In particular, one needs look at the increased consumption of meat in both countries. Meat is incredibly grain intensive. Unless we see either tremendous societal changes or economic disturbance resulting in a reversal of Chinese and Indian dietary trends, we will continue to see increased consumption being a strong inflationary factor.
Even were we to end our ridiculous subsidies on corn tomorrow, I think that this would still pick up the slack. The number of Chinese thought to be moving to a protein-based diet (fortunately they like pigs rather than cows, which are a bit more efficient) is staggering and may cause the biggest shift in agriculture since the industrial revolution. In my opinion, it will lead to the rise and eventual dominance of engineered 'frankenmeat' (we're pretty close already with cows - they're getting better and better at eating corn, which they were never designed to do).

Don't fear the technology. It is precisely that sort of "frankenmeat" that will make it possible to provide meat to the world without starving the planet. I spoke with a food scientist who stated that his research indicated that just the land needed to raise the chickens necessary for McDonald's nuggets would be roughly the size of the state of Kansas. As much as you may fear it, it's here today and has been (without the catestrophic effects folks have predicted) for years.

The next step is going to be vegetarian vat meat. Perfectly disc shaped steaks grown in tubes without the exploitation of animals.

It's an exciting time to be alive.

There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.

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Quote:
The next step is going to be vegetarian vat meat. Perfectly disc shaped steaks grown in tubes without the exploitation of animals.

It's an exciting time to be alive.

If "vat meat" tasted great, looked great, and was nutritionally better than standard meat, would it still be so objected to?

Do not underestimate the power of good marketing.

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"Frankenmeat" is a meaningless term created for emotional response, with absolutely no bearing in the science involved. It's right up there with condemning cloning on the grounds that it's "playing God." Also, it's a hilarious euphamism in my Democratic Party slash fanfiction!

We've been breeding plants and animals selectively since the beginning of agriculture. We might be doing it a bit more hands-on and with a lot more understanding of how it works now, but it's really not that much different from what we've been doing for thousands and thousands of years. If production is not meeting demand and we can't spare the land for more production, the only real alternative is to make our production more efficient. I'd rather choke down the visceral repulsion to eating a piece of genetically engineered food than have people starve.

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Location: New York, NY

Steaks from a vat! Next step: BJs from a vat! (I can't believe I am stooping down to THIS level of "humor")

EDIT: fixed typos made on a Nokia N800 virtual keyboard.

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Edwin's picture
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• At global economic conference, food crisis trumps credit crisis [NYTimes]
• France says: the EU really needs to do something about the food crisis [BBC]
• One reason food prices are up: vastly increased farm input costs [WSJ]
• South St. Paul stockyard, once largest in the world, shutters [Post-Bulletin]
• Singles are eating black noodles for love on Black Day in S. Korea [Reuters]
• American policymakers still in denial about ethanol's role in food crisis [NYTimes]
• The IMF estimates that 100m people are severely affected by food crisis [FWI]
• Bush releases $200m from food fund for immediate stability aid [CNN]
• The World Bank wants to raise $500m for food aid, especially in Africa [MG]
• Haitian food riots, having taken six lives, finally quiet down [VOA]

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Minase's picture
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Quote:
Don't fear the technology. It is precisely that sort of "frankenmeat" that will make it possible to provide meat to the world without starving the planet. I spoke with a food scientist who stated that his research indicated that just the land needed to raise the chickens necessary for McDonald's nuggets would be roughly the size of the state of Kansas. As much as you may fear it, it's here today and has been (without the catestrophic effects folks have predicted) for years.

The next step is going to be vegetarian vat meat. Perfectly disc shaped steaks grown in tubes without the exploitation of animals.

It's an exciting time to be alive.

I completely agree. Traditional farming will always have its place, but meat factories are the future.

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Minase wrote:
I completely agree. Traditional farming will always have its place, but Soylent Green factories are the true future.

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I love meat. I really love meat. But when I find a bone, or a big chewy artery, or any other recognizeable parts in my meat, well... I love the taste, not the knowledge that I am eating an animal.

If they could stop torturing and mass-producing animals for the slaughter and instead clone me a delicious steak with uniform texture and quality? Sign me up! It'd be like the exact inverse of tofu!

But just think about it... they could reduce things like fat and cholestrol, add vitamins and nutrients, and even engineer things like the taste. Artificial flavors usually taste like ass because they're chemical approximations but genetically engineered flavor would be like the real thing.

Man, I'm getting hungry for delicious mutant extruded vat meat!

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

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Quote:
• Bush releases $200m from food fund for immediate stability aid [CNN]

You know, I read that the war in Iraq costs like 400 million a day. I hope the US is really getting their money's worth out of that.

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Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
Minase wrote:
I completely agree. Traditional farming will always have its place, but Soylent Green factories are the true future.

Oh, we're closer than you think. Quorn anyone? Or perhaps some stem cell-based bacon?

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LobsterMobster wrote:
I love meat. I really love meat. But when I find a bone, or a big chewy artery, or any other recognizeable parts in my meat, well... I love the taste, not the knowledge that I am eating an animal.

Man, you should have seen the Iron Chef America that was on Sunday. "Just pick it up by the beak and suck the brains out." The expression on my wife's face was priceless.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!

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Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
Minase wrote:
I completely agree. Traditional farming will always have its place, but Soylent Green factories are the true future.

Well, if you have a better solution to running out of oil I'd like to hear about it. The more Chinese people we eat the fewer of them will be driving new cars and pushing up the price of oil.

And who doesn't like foreign food? Chinese, mexican, Indian. It's all about getting the spices right. The meat it usually just in chunks and covered by a thick sauce.

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Location: Hollywood, FL

Funkenpants wrote:
And who doesn't like foreign food? Chinese, mexican, Indian. It's all about getting the spices right. The meat it usually just in chunks and covered by a thick sauce.

That's how a lot of world cuisine is, because meat is generally expensive. Steak dinners are a status symbol, cows and chickens are a family's trust (nest egg? hyar).

I imagine Soylent Green will be covered when I get to my International Cuisine class. I'll keep you posted...

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Location: New York, NY

OG_slinger wrote:
Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
Minase wrote:
I completely agree. Traditional farming will always have its place, but Soylent Green factories are the true future.

Oh, we're closer than you think. Quorn anyone? Or perhaps some stem cell-based bacon?

This Quorn(tm) is being sold down at Whole Foods Market here. Gotta check it out.

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LobsterMobster's picture
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Quintin_Stone wrote:
LobsterMobster wrote:
I love meat. I really love meat. But when I find a bone, or a big chewy artery, or any other recognizeable parts in my meat, well... I love the taste, not the knowledge that I am eating an animal.

Man, you should have seen the Iron Chef America that was on Sunday. "Just pick it up by the beak and suck the brains out." The expression on my wife's face was priceless.

There's a fine line between "delicacy" and "prank."

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

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Goin' Commando
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• The next chapter of the food crisis will be about Asia's lack of water [AlterNet]
• Half a decade into drought, Australia gives up on growing rice [NYTimes]
• Bangladesh, of all places, expects bumper rice crop this year [AFP]
• EU, eager to set an example, to avoid food export protectionism [BBC]
• World Bank/UN food plan puts blame on, opposed by rich countries [Guardian]

• A core inflation figure that excludes food and energy is unhelpful [Union-Tribune]

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OG_slinger's picture

The NYT had an interesting piece on how drought in Australia (and maybe global warming) has contributed to rice prices doubling to $1000/metric ton over the last three months. What makes it interesting is that rice is purely people food...it's not used to make biofuels or to feed livestock.

Quote:

The Deniliquin mill, the largest rice mill in the Southern Hemisphere, once processed enough grain to meet the needs of 20 million people around the world. But six long years of drought have taken a toll, reducing Australia’s rice crop by 98 percent and leading to the mothballing of the mill last December...

And it's not just drought that caused the decline of rice production in Australia. Many farmers (and ranchers) sold their water rights to grape producers who were busy expanding their very profitable operations.

Quote:
Meanwhile, changes like the use of water to grow wine grapes instead of rice carry their own costs, as the developing world is discovering.

“Rice is a staple food,” said Graeme J. Haley, the general manager of the town of Deniliquin. “Chardonnay is not.”

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Location: New York, NY

As I understand, there're some plans underway to build out new oceanwater desalination plants of massive capacities on the Australian coast...

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Funkenpants's picture

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
As I understand, there're some plans underway to build out new oceanwater desalination plants of massive capacities on the Australian coast...

Won't that require a lot of capital and energy? Seems like it would be cheaper to grow water-intensive crops like rice in someplace that already has a lot of water.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

Australia would be an ideal place for a deployment of Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion. Depending on the specific kind of OTEC technology, one of the by-products is often fresh water from condensation. A test facillity in Hawaii has been growing strawberries off of condensed water for a while.

There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.

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OG_slinger's picture

Funkenpants wrote:
Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
As I understand, there're some plans underway to build out new oceanwater desalination plants of massive capacities on the Australian coast...

Won't that require a lot of capital and energy? Seems like it would be cheaper to grow water-intensive crops like rice in someplace that already has a lot of water.

95% of rice is already grown in Asia, which is why the monsoon season is so critical there. The problem is that drought has hit the region and there's more competition for farmland. It either gets converted to raising livestock or developed into factories, home, and shops.

China's already hard up because only 10% of its landmass can actually be farmed and every year they lose land to urbanization or the desert. That's not a good thing in a country who's population is growing and eating higher on the food chain. That shrinking amount of farmland will have to produce a lot more every year, which is why the Chinese government is investing heavily into genetically modified crop research.

We're all on a lot shakier ground than we realize. Just three crops--rice, wheat, corn--generate about 60% of all the calories eaten worldwide. A lot of the acreage planted are monocultures (basically clones) that have been engineered for maximum yields. That genetic sameness also makes those crops very vunerable to disease as Vietnam found out.