Got Vista yet? Better hurry, it's almost obsolete

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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

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Bill just can't stop forcing overpriced, unnecessary OS upgrades down our throats.

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

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Pharacon's picture
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas... Houston that is...

I can not wait, vista is piss poor power and system hog. I hope MS pulls their head out of their collective asses and brings us something with a TINY memory footprint.


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Tkyl's picture
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow and without a puppy

Yeah, the only reason why I switched to Vista was because I got it for $5. Even so I'm debating switching back to XP, though things are running decently enough so I don't know if I want to deal with the hassle of reformatting and everything.

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wanderingtaoist's picture
Location: Deep in Central Europe

Pharacon wrote:
I can not wait, vista is piss poor power and system hog. I hope MS pulls their head out of their collective asses and brings us something with a TINY memory footprint.

Also, the compatibility with "old" hardware and software would be nice. I still haven't seen one sensible argument why would I want to switch from my perfectly well-functioning XP to the system hog that is Vista. And no, DX10 is not a reason for me.

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From A Certain Point of View
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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

According to Paul Thurrott on the latest Windows Weekly podcast, you're just clinging to something old, don't like change and are buying into FUD spread by people who just hate Microsoft.

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atom's picture
Location: Oshkosh, WI

It's obvious to other people that Vista is the Windows ME of this cycle, right? It's not just me, right? If the next OS is good, then I'll be happy I didn't upgrade to Vista.

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NemesisZero's picture
Location: The frozen heart of Germany

atom wrote:
It's obvious to other people that Vista is the Windows ME of this cycle, right? It's not just me, right?

It's not just you, but some got saddled with it when they got new laptops. And how they rue that day.

In a way, it's a true pity because I consider Vista a giant step forward in terms of usability. When it allows you to be used, that is.

And if I haven't seen further, it's because those bloody giants blocked my sight.

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*Legion*'s picture
Location: Monterey County

Probably should move this to the Tech board.

There's been a lot of conflicting claims about whether a new Windows is indeed around the corner or not. Every time we see a story like this, there seems to be one countering it that comes out a day later.

Probably gonna be tough to backtrack on a quote straight from Gates, though.

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LobsterMobster's picture
Location: On a picnic, going "La la la!"

DirectX10 doesn't count because there is absolutely no reason it requires Vista other than that MS decided to program in that restriction.

NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.

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Devmani's picture
Location: Austin TX

Meh I have vista on my PC as a back up OS in case Xp fails. But from what I've used of it I'm not against it. I hear that SP1 made sweeping changes to resource usage and in most cases made games run much much better.

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I think its pretty obvious that the next OS will be based on Vista, not XP, and as such is already doomed.

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Location: Texas

I hate the vista I have on my new laptop.

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Duoae's picture

I don't get it. Having a basic standard (such as an OS) change every two years is not good for business or consumers. There just isn't the time to keep up - i mean, a decent game development period is around 3-4 years. How can you code your game to work with an OS which (in theory) could have a different basis than the one that was popular when you started out... not to mention fragmentation of the market.

One of the things that MS isn't known for is compatibility between different versions of their software and previous-gen support of file formats or standards etc. The only way a 2-year OS can operate is through upgrades... which means that they'll essentially just be charging for Service Packs or in game lingo 'expansion packs' with little to no innovation (not that you need it every two years but... then why pay?)

Of - power - insessantly
Plagued - by - malefisense
Doomed - to - insidious -
Death - is - he - who - breaks
this - monument - i - prophesy

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jlaakso's picture
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Seems way too early. I haven't even considered moving on to Vista yet, and certainly won't do so now.

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lethial's picture
Location: NY

Heh, I'll be the odd-ball out and say that I enjoyed tweaking and using Vista. *dodge*

Decisions are just decisions, there are neither "good" or "bad"
LobsterMobster wrote:

*In response to being rewarded with a in-game shack for NOT nuking FO3 city Megaton*
Yeah, but if you set off the bomb in Megaton you are rewarded with a parking lot!

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atom wrote:
It's obvious to other people that Vista is the Windows ME of this cycle, right? It's not just me, right? If the next OS is good, then I'll be happy I didn't upgrade to Vista.

That's the same thing I thought. I got Vista for free (well, I guess they tacked it onto the price of my PC) and it wasn't worth it.

And I still know people who say Windows ME was a good OS.

Microsoft should have just copied Apple's model of releasing yearly updates with neat features.

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Location: Exodus.

Their plans for Windows 7.

EDIT: of course after bullsh*t like this the entire article is suspect:

Quote:

In response to this, Microsoft made fundamental changes to the way Windows Vista was linked together; shifting more towards modular designs rather than the monolithic processes used in previous versions of Windows. This increased amount of componentization, while satisfying the DoJ and EU, also led to performance issues due to the increased number of libraries which comprise the operating system. On traditional hard drives, the more separate files which the operating system has to load, the more seeking across the hard drive is required, and therefore overall performance takes a hit.

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Duoae's picture

shihonage wrote:

Quote:

This increased amount of componentization, while satisfying the DoJ and EU, also led to performance issues due to the increased number of libraries which comprise the operating system.

Wow... i would have gone with componentism or componency.

Seriously, if they mean that i can operate my media player offline without having to take my whole damn PC offline or that third party software can also link into the 'you have 4 unread messages' when you log in for your particular email programme/service then i'd be happy.

Of - power - insessantly
Plagued - by - malefisense
Doomed - to - insidious -
Death - is - he - who - breaks
this - monument - i - prophesy

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NemesisZero's picture
Location: The frozen heart of Germany

If that article is correct, Windows 7 might well be the silver bullet:

Quote:
Windows 7 will be a from-the-ground-up packaging of the Windows codebase; partially source, but not binary compatible with previous versions of Windows.

[...]

Classic, the most interesting of the three environments, is the approach that Microsoft will be taking with Windows 7. Essentially, Classic provided a complete API and binary abstraction layer which allows Mac OS 9 code to run within a "virtual machine" inside Mac OS X.

Good luck convincing business customers to buy a product that will force them to run their software through an emulator. That solution might have been feasible for Apple when their userbase was small and specialized enough to ensure a swift update to all major selling-point software. Doing the same thing for Windows? Years and years of crippled running as software developers re-release all their old software for a new market that has no real incentive to grow.

And if I haven't seen further, it's because those bloody giants blocked my sight.

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RedBrain's picture
Location: Edmonton

It's Microsoft,..It'll ship two years after the expected release.

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Location: Exodus.

NemesisZero wrote:

Good luck convincing business customers to buy a product that will force them to run their software through an emulator.

As I understand that process will be transparent. There already are some phenomenal emulator solutions. It's not technically emulation as it doesn't have to emulate CPU instructions, only specific calls to legacy procedures.

I know theres one thing that lets you run most of older games and office apps from just one executable which contains a complete self-contained environment of Windows version of your choosing. I recall seeing an instantly runnable Starcraft rip enclosed within a 60mb exe with that thing.

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NemesisZero's picture
Location: The frozen heart of Germany

Intriguing, thanks for the info.
Wouldn't the abstraction layer nonetheless add performance issues, though? I believe at once that it'll run StarCraft. How about a high-maintenance SAP solution with tons of custom plug-ins?

And if I haven't seen further, it's because those bloody giants blocked my sight.

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
Location: Perpetually suspended

wanderingtaoist wrote:
I still haven't seen one sensible argument why would I want to switch from my perfectly well-functioning XP to the system hog that is Vista. And no, DX10 is not a reason for me.

As Lobster says, DX10 is a marketing feature; there's no reason it couldn't run in XP.

By now, you probably know that I'm a profound Vista hater, and I won't go back over my reasoning. (DRM, almost exclusively.) Even so, there is one good reason: 64-bitness that will be well-supported. XP can easily go past 4 gigs, but Microsoft disabled that feature a couple of service packs ago, because of stupid manufacturers that didn't program for lots of memory. XP is now limited to 4gb of physical address space, forever.

If you want more space than that, and you want Windows, Vista is pretty much the only reasonable choice. If you get away from Windows, though, you have other options. Apple's new Leopard is true 64-bit all the way through, and all the popular Linux distros have 64-bit variants. But if you want Windows and tons of RAM, Vista is the only reasonable choice.

For myself, well... I don't want Windows as much as I want to avoid DRM in my operating system. A system with Microsoft controlled DRM at its core, running anti-tampering code to make sure I'm not a thief thirty times a second, is no longer mine. I'm borrowing it from Microsoft. If I don't have permission to use my hardware however I wish, it's not my hardware.

I've been reading, though, that Server 2008 might have the good bits of Vista without the DRM, but I haven't been able to nail that down for sure. Server 2003 makes a kickass workstation once you turn on the desktop-style features: it's XP minus the anti-consumer crap.

Server 2k8 thus has my interest piqued.

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KingGorilla's picture

But, Microsoft has always released a new version every year or two. I do not want to be "that guy." But this is no more news than "Madden 2009 to be released in August 2008." Microsoft shipped off a few hundred million versions of Vista into people's homes. Mission accomplished. Now they release the bug fixed OS, for the rest of us.

*censored*
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doihaveto's picture
Location: SF, CA

Oh yawn. We've been through this many times before. Running an older version of Windows is just like running an older version of OSX or an older Linux distro - cheaper and easier in the short term, but difficult in the long run. After a while, new software and hardware comes out that makes use of the new OS features, and you're faced with a fait accompli - upgrade or get left behind.

Discretion is not the better part of
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Malor's picture
Location: Perpetually suspended

At least, with Linux, when you're forced to upgrade, it's purely because it's a benefit to you, not to Microsoft.

And, btw, there are people still running Win98.

the pot and the kettle
boogle's picture
Location: Norman, OK

lethial wrote:
Heh, I'll be the odd-ball out and say that I enjoyed tweaking and using Vista. *dodge*
I've fairly enjoyed it as well.
My systems do tend towards the high end though, and I am high enough in the user bracket to know how to change the important settings.

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Ignore boogle, his PCs have hookers inside of them.

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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL
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Malor wrote:

And, btw, there are people still running Win98.

Last I saw, as a worldwide tally of internet connected PCs(according to google), the majority of people are running 98, something around 40 percent. That is scary given how that OS had 0 online security measures.

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LiquidMantis's picture
Location: Rocky Mtn. Foothills

Malor wrote:
Server 2k8 thus has my interest piqued.

I've been debating about trying the 2k8 as workstation OS setup for a bit now. I haven't yet as I no longer get off working on my system just for the sake of working on my system. I'll probably try a virtual machine setup to give at least a first round pass test for compatibility with my main applications.

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dhelor's picture
Location: Oregon

LobsterMobster wrote:
overpriced, unnecessary OS upgrades

Overpriced, definitely. Unnecessary? You have used Vista, haven't you?

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