New PC advice
So, today my old PC died. I'm not quite sure why, but it's been having issues lately. Random reboots, crashes, issues booting up. It POSTs fine on bootup, but occasionally locks up loading windows. It occasionally has issues with crashes during gaming sessions, but nothing horrible. Temps aren't too bad, usually ~50C inside the case.
One thing in particular I've noticed though, is that USB stuff doesn't always power up during boot. This is somewhat an issue, given that KB/M are both USB.
So, first on the menu is figure out why it died. I'm leaning toward a power supply issue, but can't find a spare to test with. If anyone else has any ideas, I'd love to hear em ![]()
Second on the menu is just build a new one. I bought the parts for it a little over two years ago, and they were getting long in the tooth then. Currently gaming wise I play WoW, EVE, stuff that came in the Orange Box with thoughts of picking up DoW: Soulstorm.
Here's what went into the old girl:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 2.0GHz Socket 939 Single-Core Processor Model ADA3200BPBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103535
CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWINX2048-3200 - Retail
Item #: N82E16820145486
XFX PVT43GUDF3 GeForce 6600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131517
Kinda sad, I know. But it was fairly inexpensive at the time. However, now I'm looking for similar performance, if not a little better on a much shorter budget(like $500)
However, here's what I've cooked up for that:
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard - Retail
XFX PVT84JUDD3 GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Intel Core 2 Duo E4600 Allendale 2.4GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E4600 - Retail
Kingston ValueRAM 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR800D2N5K2/2G - Retail
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive -
In general, I'd like to reuse parts where applicable(things like the case, ram, etc), but otherwise, that's what I'm looking at provided I can't get the old workhorse running again.
Thanks in advance for all your help. ![]()
Coldstream wrote:
Sands, S. & Murdoch, J.; New England Journal of Medicine. Why Guys Dig Chicks Who Kill Violently Kill Stuff Nov, 2008; pp 65-68.



Looks OK except for the 8600GT. When you can get a 9600GT for $150 before rebate, it's hard to justify spending up to $100 on an 8600GT card. There's a massive world of performance difference that comes with that extra $50.
You can even get a Radeon 3850 for about $120 that will destroy the 8600GT. Compared to the alternatives, the 8600GT is just junk that should not be bought.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB / PSN: Legion_SB / Steam: legion028 / Twitter: legion
If I'm going to be an ass, I might as well be a hot female sportscaster's ass.
Sounds good. Like I said, the Boss(by which I mean my wife) put me on a pretty tight budget, but I think I could squeeze the extra $50 for a 9600GT. Suppose no thoughts on trying to ressurect the old beast, or is it pretty much not worth the effort&expenditure?
Coldstream wrote:
What Legion said. I just picked up a 8600GT as a temporary budget replacement for my 7800GT, which died an untimely death. It underperforms the 7800. In WoW I only get about 10-20 fps in Shatt and 30 or so for most other places (running at 1680x1050 resolution). Some of that may be my CPU limiting things but I think spending the extra jack on a 9600 GT will be so worth it. Why not consider trimming $30 off your hard drive and getting a smaller one to help make up the difference?
Other than that, looks good.
As far as what might be wrong with your current rig, I'm not expert but I would think power supply or maybe memory. Given the list of problems, however, it could be just about anything.
If you need, I would cut the CPU to a E2180 or E2200 rather than going down to an 8600 GT. An E2200 with a 9600 GT will blow an E4600 with an 8600 GT out of the water, resurrect it, and kill it again.
You can take a look at my $750 PC build, which is with monitor, case, and everything - it's easy to get it to $500 if you're recycling some parts. Basically it's an E2180, 9600 GT, and the Gigabyte P35 board you've got spec'd. The 9600 GTs are even cheaper now, so I'll have to tweak it for the April version.
Don't know about fixing the old PC, figuring out random problems like that is a trial and error process.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB / PSN: Legion_SB / Steam: legion028 / Twitter: legion
If I'm going to be an ass, I might as well be a hot female sportscaster's ass.
I recomend the Asus P35 board.
I'm a big asus fan, and I really like their boards.
Also, think of trying for a nice thermaltake heatsink(or whatever everyone else recommends, I haven't kept up with heatsinks as of late).
Not only does it boost the e-penis, but should let you overclock that wee little bugger of a CPU to a huge 2.8 or 3.0 ghz.
shihonage wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJThe Asus P35 boards are all more expensive. And the one that is cheapest, the P5K SE, has been complained about for insufficient chipset cooling, higher than normal DOA, and shaky memory support. But mainly the bad chipset cooling. The SE strips off the heatpipe cooling of the better ASUS P35 boards. At the price, the Gigabyte has much, much better cooling.
The more expensive Asus P35 boards are kickass, no argument, but on a $500 budget it may be hard to justify spending more than necessary on the motherboard.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB / PSN: Legion_SB / Steam: legion028 / Twitter: legion
If I'm going to be an ass, I might as well be a hot female sportscaster's ass.
Eh, I've never been a huge fan of overclocking. I've done it a time or two when I was younger and single and had far, far more disposable income than I do now. At this point, I simply can't afford to risk burning the PC out for a little more performance, which I probably don't need anyway.
Thanks all for the suggestions and whatnot; Here's what I'm looking at after suggestions have been made
Coldstream wrote:
Nice work, I think you've maximized what you can do with $500.
I've experienced similar problems when I had a faulty power supply. My USB mouse and keyboard would arbitrarily stop working, or not power-up at all. Also, during gaming sessions the entire system would halt and reboot. I replaced the power supply and everything was back to normal.
The only other thing it could be is a faulty motherboard. I highly doubt it's related to RAM.
Other wise the new rig looks like it will get the job done, also I would heed the advice of Legion regarding the video card.
Blackhand - Sheiana The Shaman.
shihonage wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJHate to be the fly in the ointment, but:
If the power supply is the culprit in the old build, is the new stuff going in the old case, with the old power supply?
Just thinking out loud.
*Legion* recognizing greatness wrote:
Quite probably. However, one of the things I was wondering about is whether a 380w PS will be enough to run all of that, plus a pair of optical drives, and at least two hard drives. So with that in mind, should I upgrade the PS anyway?
Coldstream wrote:
I don't know how tight your budget is. You don't know if the power supply is your culprit. Therefore, you might need to get a new one if it is. If you have zero budget left, you are screwed. Your problem could also very well be HDD or motherboard, so you could be safe...
You said yourself that you're leaning towards power supply, so I would think trying to reuse it is a real crapshoot. Any local shops around that will let you "try before you buy"?
*Legion* recognizing greatness wrote:
The budget is fairly tight, but not so much that I can't toss in a power supply on top of things. Basically it means I don't get a second new harddrive. As to HDDs, I checkdisk'd em all, with no errors returned. I didn't get a chance to run memtest before it stopped booting though. Given the fact that the PC won't even POST, but it will power up, the most likely culprit is the motherboard(quite possible that it's burned out, the CPU fan has likely been dead for a while, which I didn't notice until the day it stopped booting) or the power supply. If it's not the motherboard, well, I'll likely never know; the new box is intel, not AMD. If it's the power supply, Best Buy sells em fairly inexpensive, and picking up a new one there isn't a big deal.
Coldstream wrote:
The good news is that even on a tight budget, you're going to get a nice performance boost, and really take advantage of the killer low-end hardware available now.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB / PSN: Legion_SB / Steam: legion028 / Twitter: legion
If I'm going to be an ass, I might as well be a hot female sportscaster's ass.
Yep, that's generally when I build a new PC. I built the last one on hardware under a year old, on double the budget of this one. It's still rock-solid, although starting to lag a bit. Most of that is my stubborn refusal to wipe the main HDD and reinstall everything. Guess I have to now
Coldstream wrote:
Which makes me wonder: what would be the best deal? Getting an amazing "future-proof" rig or a "budget" one now and another one/upgrade it in a couple of years?
Right now? Budget. We've reached the a limit of what single cores can achieve to the point where increasing the power isn't going to get you the returns you might wish for. The industry is coming up with multi-core and many-core options for both CPUs and GPUs but the developers have to start making use of them for us to see the real benefit. Also, we are at a point now that 3d graphics are so powerful that increasing the complexity doesn't scale well with the processing power. Look at Crysis for that as an example compared to CoD4, Bioshock and the Source Engine. Ray tracing is heralded as the next big thing that solve all the above headaches but even if it was, its years away from mainstream.
Going out on a limb, I'd say a good P35 or 690G (if you're into that) could see you for a very long time. Toss in 4GB of RAM and a good powersupply and you have the guts of a decent machine going forward. As Legion as points out in previous builds, tossing in a cheap processor and a 8800gt is going to give you 99.99% of the same experience of a quad-sli/crossfire rig over all the games you'll play. Best option is to save your money for next year and upgrade either or both your CPU/GPU if you need to or if at all.
SteamID: Coyler
Xbox Live: Coyler
Yes, 380w PS is not going to be enough.
Blackhand - Sheiana The Shaman.
Yea, I was kind of figuring that myself. Any suggestions on how big I should go?
Coldstream wrote:
It's all about timing. It depends on where Intel is at in their CPU cycle, where NVIDIA is, etc.
Last year at this time, there was no 8800 GT, no 9600 GT, nor even the 8600 GT/GTS cards. You either coughed up $400 for a good-not-great 320MB 8800 GTS, or you went all the way down to a 7-series card. Last March, I built a machine with an E4300 and a 7600GT, knowing that I would replace the 7600GT toward the end of the year. I was just happy that Intel had released a more affordable Core 2 Duo chip in the E4300 that January.
Now, NVIDIA has really filled out their low-to-midrange cards, and Intel has filled out their low-end CPUs even further with the Pentium Dual-Core CPUs. There was nothing really comparable this time last year.
Hopefully NVIDIA doesn't ever leave the midrange that abandoned ever again, but there will certainly be upswings and downswings as new stuff gets introduced. We might not be looking at this nice selection from NVIDIA had ATI not started to mount a decent midrange attack with the Radeon 3850/3870 cards. Let's hope they can continue to muster some kind of challenge.
Gaming / PC Tech Blog: www.blastprocessing.net
Xbox Live: Legion SB / PSN: Legion_SB / Steam: legion028 / Twitter: legion
If I'm going to be an ass, I might as well be a hot female sportscaster's ass.
Often one of the first things that happens when a mainboard is dying is the USB ports begin to get wonky. My first suspicion here is your old mainboard is dying, although if I had a spare PS laying around I'd certainly try that first.
And 50C as an internal case temperature is a bit high. If that's your AMD CPU temp, it isn't alarming, but for the internal case temp to be that high, I'd be concerned about what your cpu temp must be in that hot an environment.
"I have not supped of Buffy, nor have I supped in any wise during the absence of Firefly. When Firefly returns again in glory, then shall I sup at the table of Whedon." - Fedaykin98
It's the CPU temp; internal case is a good bit lower, but not where it should be given lack of cooling.
Mainboard dying wouldn't surprise me though, but that'll be resolved come tomorrow; I have a box of parts from newegg getting here sometimes tomorrow in theory.
Coldstream wrote:
Anime, this should help you solve your power supply questions:
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
Yea, I found that earlier. Thanks Cope.
Coldstream wrote:
The nForce4 is still a very good chipset. The issue is that once you start adding a Vista-DX 10 upgrade into the mix, you are already more than halfway to the cost of a brand new PC. Hardware wise, you could upgrade the processor to a faster Dual Core Athalon X2, for less than 100 dollars. An ATI 3870 can be had for under 200 dollars, or an Nvidia 8800GT would run you about 250. I have seen Vista Home Premium go for as low as 90 dollars with Google shop. That is about 450-500 in Upgrades. When, assuming you salvage things like hard discs, optical drives, case, a new build would be around 800 dollars.
With no real software reason to have Vista 64, 2 Gigs is about the max you will be able to use with a 512 MB or larger video card.
If you do go the new build route, I suggest staying away from SLI or Crossfire chipsets, unless you really plan on a multi GPU configuration. Look for a P35 based motherboard if you go Inten, or look into the new AMD chipsets. The 780i chipset based motherboards are showing to be very impressive, especially for the price. Also remember that for these processors and graphics cards, you want a power supply that is a minimum 600 w. At peak load this hardware will need it.