Gaming Schools
Thursday, March 27th, 2008 - 9:18am
It seems that many schools are creating game development programs. Whenever I hear about gaming schools online (podcasts / websites etc (gamasutra)) they pretty much just mention three different ones: DigiPen, FullSail, GuildHall. So, how do you know what gaming school to choose?
My goal is pretty much:
Complete 3 year computer science program
Work / save money for gaming school
Go to gaming school
Work in industry
Do you see anything wrong with the way this is laid out? What schools would you recommend? What should I be doing in the meantime?
Your friendly neighbourhood hair splitting singularity.
What, specifically, is your career objective? Gameplay programming? Tools programming? Something else?
Chances are good that if you have a thorough engineering background, and while you're getting it you are actively working on indie projects, mods, etc. you will not need to go to a game-specific school. Networking and experience are worth as much or more as a gaming-specific degree.
What Symbiotic said is good, but keep in mind that if you go to DigiPen you'll be in the Seattle area. Which is beautiful. And also means you could buy me a beer.
When thinking about your long-term goals, keep the following question in mind: "What would most benefit Demiurge and his thirst for free beer?"
"Even though that place should only be fifteen or twenty minutes away geographically, in actual practice - between the hours of four and seven - Redmond might as well orbit the Earth." - Tycho, Penny Arcade
I agree with this completely. If you are going to get a BS in CompSci, then there isn't a need to go to a Gaming School, especially if you are working on side projects while at school. Out of all the people I have worked with, very very few have gone to Digipen, or any other Gaming School. Now, if you are going to get a Master's in CompSci, it might be different. I'd have to check out what the Master's program is like at Digipen (or other similar school) compared to other schools. But I wouldn't plan on going to the school just because it is a "Gaming" School.
Quote:
Going to a gaming school is just gonna pigeonhole you. That can only be a bad thing.
Xbox Live Gamertag : Barab
EVE: Hannibal Dax
+1 to Demiurge.
Free beer is a good thing, and I think I would enjoy some as well.
Being the director of the Gaming program at my school (one which I can safely boast has got students in all the major studios, Blizzard included) I'd say come to mine!
Of course if you want to program, you'd be out of luck.
Are you interested in 3d modeling? Programming? Animating?
Of the ones you mentioned, I have the closest relationship with Guildhall and have nothing but kind words for them. Full sail is alright, as is digipen. And if I remember correctly, Full Sail just got their full university accreditation.
Sephirotic | I am your future...swallowed up in fire | SSBB: 2320-5939-4010
I was chasing this up too at one point, being interested in cracking the (real) games industry earlier in my career after having worked contracts on webgames and educational fare, and most real games companies knocked my resume back saying it did not have enough experience.
I had read and heard horror stories about Full Sail, it being a school that required no kind of prior qualification or experience, just a fat wallet and a willingness to show up. You can look at this as either a good or a bad thing.
From what reading & research I have done on these varying game schools I have gleaned the following:
Pros:
* Very specifically oriented
* Accelerated programs
* Up to date technology training
* Impressive on the resume if you make it through
Cons:
* Extremely high competition
* No guarantee of industry placement (although this can be debated)
* Brutal pacing (a high percentage drop out)
I would go back a few episodes in the podcast and listen to Sephirotic's wise words on the game industry and working in it. Wherever you go on the web, his point of view appears to be pretty much echoed. Game development is a rock-star ideal of a job in many young teen's minds but it's not all that it's cracked up to be. As with those people who go to California to try and make it in Hollywood or be in a band, not everyone is cut out for it and you have to decide whether the heartache is for you in finding out you're not cut out for your dream, or if you have the persistence, temerity and competitiveness to make it to the finish line. And even then, you might not decide it's for you.
Not to be a downer, but, think about it really hard before you sign up for one of these schools.
I'd also agree with Sephirotic on the school to choose - Guildhall appears to be the most credible school, closely followed by Digipen. Were it me, I'd stay away from Full Sail.
YMMV.
Another bit of advice. You DO NOT need a degree to get a job in the game industry. Everything can be learned outside of that. The benefit of school is both the connections and friendships that you make. Plus, you can ask an instructor if you are in a class whereas it's harder to get advice outside of that.
Sephirotic | I am your future...swallowed up in fire | SSBB: 2320-5939-4010
I can only agree with what was said before.
My experience with the pure gaming school we have over here is such that I could spit lacework into steel with the things I'd say about it. The big American three are in another league, obviously, but still, I see a more general institution with some game-specific courses as the preferrable option.
The game industry and the professional demands therein are still subject to significant and comparably fast changes. The main skill one should be taught to succeed in it is adaptability. A highly specialized education runs counter to that.
And if I haven't seen further, it's because those bloody giants blocked my sight.
I have to say I like what I'm hearing.
From above:
@Symbiotic/Tkyl: I'm not entirely sure about that yet. I guess we'll see when it comes around.
I assume that AI and game engines are pretty much on the opposite side of the spectrum? How much can you move around within a company as a programmer? What do you find the most interesting?
In what sense?
@Demiurge: Not 21 for another few months (no beer for you atm - (I guess my timeline is a little outawhack))
@Sephirotic do you have a site where I can see some student work / completed projects or anything else cool.
--
In other news:
As far as the whole rock star image deal - I am so not into that. It would turn me away if anything.
I've been experimenting a bit with actionscript(2.0) lately. Its meh, lawlcatomg.
Thanks for the info and keep it comin!
Your friendly neighbourhood hair splitting singularity.
Do not, I mean, do not! Go to a gaming school. You'll just end up wasting a lot of money on something you can do without the useless degree. There is a good chance you'll HATE the gaming industry. I know I did. I worked in the industry and end up packing it up because I hated it. The burn out rate is very high. If you complete the computer science program in university, you can get a job. Just get involved with the mod scene and learn as much as you can on your own.
A college degree is very helpful now. It's not needed but it shows you can complete something.
Get ready for working a lot of long hours and for pay that isn't that high when you take into account how long you work. NEVER calculate your hourly wage.
Gaming schools costs thousands of dollars and if you don't like the field, they will not help you with anything else. What you should do is get your degree in com sci, work in the industry, and if you like it, go get your masters at USC or Guild Hall.
Not sure how serious you are about learning Actionscript but there are some awesome capabilities with Adobe Flex3 and Actionscript 3.0 for game development. Basically, Flex is developer-level Flash creation. Rather than focusing on design and animation timelines in Flash CS3, Flex gives you the ability to code classes and GUI interactions like a traditional software application with the benefits that it will run on practically any machine with the Flash Player installed.
Also, best of all, you can get development tools FREE legally. Adobe released the Flex SDK as open-source software that you can download and use with freeware IDEs like FlashDevelop or Eclipse. I've been using FlashDevelop for several weeks now to learn Flex & Actionscript 3.0 and its a great experience so far. I will admit that there is one huge problem with FlashDevelop... there's no "Design" tool so you need to programmatically place components using X,Y coordinates or alignment components. There is supposedly several upcoming tools to help you do this but none of them are in a usable state.
I ended up shelling out the cash for Adobe Flex Builder 3 ($250) which includes Adobe's Eclipse based IDE as well as a built in Design tool. That's a helluva lot cheaper than Flash CS3 ($750) and much more usable to me for some of the games I'm working on. The other nice thing about learning Flex & AS3.0 is that its becoming a very hot market for developers. Between Flex and Silverlight, there's going to be a huge demand for Rich Internet Applications and learning Flex gives you the ability to build cross-platform applications that can run within a browser or through Adobe Air.
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt Xfire: lockandloadgwj
Halo3 Profile: RiverRatMatt
A degree in gaming always struck me as a bit like a degree in kickboxing. Neither field seems to have a body of knowledge large enough to support a degree program.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
I would consider just getting a 4-year CS degree. It'll give you the same general education as a game degree, but will be much more applicable to anything computing-related. Keep in mind, almost all companies are expecting to have to train you for a period of time after you get hired, and everyone uses different stuff, so the direct experience from a games school may not translate nearly as well as a general education(especially for direct experience with game engines and such).
You can beef up your resume with mod and school project experience, as well.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
So, you and I have talked about this before, but I graduated from Purdue with a Computer Engineering degree two years ago. Read that as Engineering, not Computer Science. They are close, but not the same. However I was still able to get a position in the industry. All the degree does, whether its CompSci, CompEE or whatever is get you into the door. You still have to impress the company with your knowledge. Enough so that they'll give you the job. If you don't have a degree, it will be harder to get them to review your resume, but there are other things that help other than the degree. Having strong experiences in programming games, whether modding or createing your own games. Anything that lets them know you are strongly interested and have the dedication to learn and do what it takes.
When I started work a little over a year ago at Concrete Games, I was placed into general gameplay. After a month, they decided they needed a graphics programmer, so I started work on that for almost a year. Once the studio closed, I was able to get a job at Kaos as a gameplay programmer again. Its kind of up in the air as to what I am going to do, but they might end up placing me on any number of things: AI, networking, vehicles, graphics, etc... Really, coming out of college you don't need to have a specific focus. If you know what you want to do, thats great, but it might also make it harder to find a job if companies don't have a position open for that. Most studios I've interviewed at have made it clear that they are more than willing to move people around to different fields if they find themselves working on something they don't like. They would rather have you working on something you enjoy than doing a half ass job on something you hate.
So my advice, get a degree somewhere (not necessarily at a Gaming college). While there, work on side projects individually or with other people. Get a feel for what you might enjoy. When you interview with companies, be open to different paths but let them know you have an interest in field . You don't need to know exactly what you want to do right off the bat. In fact most people do not.
Quote:
This advice has already been given and I will echo it:
1. Go to University and get a regular computer science degree.
2. While at University get heavily involved in the mod scene for one or more of your favorite games.
3. When you graduate, you will have a real degree and a gaming resume.
4. If you get burned out on the industry (add me to the list of people who are happily working elsewhere after the gaming industry nearly broke my love of gaming) you will have a degree that gives you other options.
Here's a game cinematic project done by some of our students:
Mutant-Z
There are still a few things needed to be done to it, namely some weight and timing issues, but it's pretty close to complete.
Sephirotic | I am your future...swallowed up in fire | SSBB: 2320-5939-4010
There's a few of you folks around this board, aren't there?
I'll reiterate what others and myself have said:
You don't need a degree in games to get a job. I didn't have one, I simply made levels for quake/quake 2. There are definite benefits to having one, but most of them are ancillary. If you can make friends with artists/programmers in the industry, you are just as likely to have your stuff reviewed as when you come from a well known school.
My suggestion: work on a team. That experience is invaluable, even if the project fails. Most of my students get jobs BECAUSE they had some sort of collaborative project. That's why I designed the curriculum around that. I want to make sure that my students know how to work with others. I also design it around problem solving. Notice anything about those last two statement? Nothing game related.
Sephirotic | I am your future...swallowed up in fire | SSBB: 2320-5939-4010
This IS a subject for another topic..
How do you think the gaming industry will change in the next (20 || x) years? I know there has been a lot of talk about developing for handhelds / mobile and smaller platforms like XBLA. Is this a bad thing?
What will happen to the HalfLifes and BioShocks?
Will we see more collaboration between developers?
Will the end user become the true content developer?
What will happen to single player games?
Is it possible for content to be driven dynamically from web databases put together by user communities?
ps. that Mutant-Z video was pretty cool. !Did you teach them that?
Your friendly neighbourhood hair splitting singularity.
Question Sephirotic:
Is anyone in your class not asian?
*Legion* wrote:
I will add an obligatory link to Tom Sloper's game industry advice site, which contains a lot of information about the various considerations that you should take into account if you're interested in working in the game industry.
That and it never hurts to network like crazy. Go to your local developers group meetings if you can, and try and end up in an area of the country that is known for game development. Seattle is good, as is Austin.
- Alan