Now she's in the doghouse
Okay. I'm sort of a conflict averse individual so it takes a whole lot to get me to initiate a conflict. This is especially true when it comes to things in the context of a relationship. I'll sooner let things slide than I will bring things to the attention of The Fiancee when they're bothering me because I know that I tend to have a pretty short memory about slights anyway.
Yesterday was the exception.
I had been trying to get in touch with The Fiancee for the better part of the day. This was unusual as she's usually pretty easy to get in touch with. She's always getting on me for not answering the phone while driving in traffic (with a stick in a car I love btw) so she is usually pretty good about either getting the phone or returning calls within the hour.
It turned out the reason why she hadn't been taking my calls was because she was pissed as hell at me. Typically, she wanted me to figure out why. Just as typically, I let her know that it was up to her to communicate it or it would simply remain her problem.
After a bit of this, she informed me that I had checked my email on her computer and confessed that she had opened it and rooted through it. I am a packrat when it comes to stuff on a freemail account with virtually unlimited storage, so I had no idea what was on it. The email account started off as a rocketmail account, so you get the picture: stuff left over from when the first Bush was still president.
Anyway, she got all kinds of upset when she found out that I had been "saving" correspondence from female friends and former girlfriends (among my 748Mb of email shipping confirmations for bicycle parts and books about animal skinning). She admitted that they all dated well before my involvement with her, but the fact that they still existed in some form bothered her tremendously.
When I pointed out that, aside from the fact that I had done nothing at all wrong, I was pretty fcuking pissed that she violated my privacy, she told me that it was not okay that I was not okay with that. Moreover, if I were to leave it open again, that I should expect her to root through it again. She even went as far as to say that it was unreasonable for me to have an expectation of privacy in the context of a committed relationship. To her credit, though only for consistency, she stated that she didn't think she has one herself.
I was ready to forgive her because I know what it is like to have been crazy jealous before, but I was certainly not going to give her license to go rooting through my correspondence, reading my journal, or wiretapping my phone calls. So I told her as much. I told her that I felt disrespected and until she figured out that that was no way to treat someone you supposedly respect enough to spend the rest of your life with, I'm spending my time elsewhere.
There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.
Or buy His and Her doghouses. Just saying. :/
Sounds like the way to go, hehe.
Just remember no matter how this is eventually handled. The petty issue of your seemingly horrible emails will probably exist for the rest of your life as a couple. You'll never shut off an email account until you are logged out and god forbid if you're using Mozilla and she gets into those saved passwords.
Personally I would take the high road, delete the emails, and take your computing elsewhere. I am so incredibly happy that we are still at least talking about games in one form or another.
I think the game of gaining extra attention by prying into someones past only to find a little dirt is age old, and we've all done it. Of course, it isn't real unless someone physically does something about it. The majority of mining the past is just a ploy to get more attention. In this case I would say that the intent is completely different than the crime.
I would explore myself as to how important it all is. She wants to feel important and you want to feel important enough to be trusted. So the goal is the same. Just delete the emails- all of them. Besides either they didn't matter in the first place or they were saved for reasons beyond the relationship.
No sense looking at the wake of a ship when you should be concentrating on the wheel.
"Beware the angle of my bow."
My girlfriend and I don't really keep anything from each other but that's only because I don't have a problem telling her what I have that she could come across. She has the passwords to everything but my server (only cause she wouldn't even know how to connect to it anyway), access to all my shared folders and she knows how to access all my financial information (which I did on purpose in the event of an emergency.) She's never bothered to look through my e-mail, though I've told her I have messages going back to 1999, including every e-mail I've ever written to what are now my ex-girlfriends. She's not the type who believes I should purge from my possession anything that's related to women I've been with besides her. I've also left my laptop on with my banking page up and if she wants to root through it, she's free to. She doesn't control how I spend my money but I've never bought anything I've felt the need to hide from her. I can appreciate that not everyone has the same methods we do, this is just how we do things and I find it eliminates a lot of conflict. We still have plenty about other stuff though. 
"Just because something's popular, that sure doesn't make it right." -Penn Gilette
"You can't fix stupid." -Ron White
blog.digital-lifeline.ca
Quote:It would take a degree of mistrust on her part to even think about rooting around like that.Not necessarily. It's sitting there open on the desktop, and it's easy to imagine curiosity taking over the better natures.
I really disagree with this. If it was a logged in mail account and one of the front page emails was titled "Thanks for the GREAT NIGHT" or something similar then I could understand it just being idle curiosity that she clicked on it. This, however, is her either scanning his emails all the way back to before their relationship even started or specifically searching for terms that would be used in emails to girlfriends/lovers. Either way it's an active search for dirt and I think it shows a lack of trust on her part, especially if it was using search terms.
Remember, only by treating everyone with dignity and respect can we maintain the element of surprise for that inevitable day when we wipe our enemies from the face of the Earth.
If a relationship has matured to the point where you simply do not have any thing you wish to keep seperated from your mate, that's a beautiful thing.
If your mate expects your relationship to reach that point by way of a new label ("committed"), that's bordering on the ridiculous.
And if I haven't seen further, it's because those bloody giants blocked my sight.
After the last thread, now this one, please explain to me why you're getting married again. I don't mean to be rude, but it sounds like you guys have lots of stuff to work out far beyond whether or not you're involved enough in the wedding planning. Privacy issues and trust issues are only going to become MORE important moving forward.
And I disagree with any notion that this wasn't an invasion of privacy. It absolutely was. It's not like in relationships you're 100% transparent. My wife should be allowed to talk to exes if they're friends and visa versa. Conversely, we trust each other implicitly that this is just what each other says it is, so no need to go snooping through email accounts. My wife even has my last girlfriend (last being 12 years+ ago) as a Facebook friend. Go figure. I think the fundamental lack of trust, demonstrated through the invasion of privacy, doesn't bode well. And I don't think it's normal for couples to not be allowed to have nothing that's their own.
Think about this. As you go through a relationship there may be times you're not terribly happy with your spouse. I know my wife has been fed up with my antics a time or two. If she ever felt like she wasn't able to seek the council and advice of friends, family, etc. without me snooping into her conversations it would be impossible for her to function, much less for her to get the help she needed when we argue or disagree over normal stuff (and sometimes heavier stuff). She needs to have her own life and privacy and visa versa. And of course as we trust each other a lot of the stuff that's private gets talked about as it becomes interesting/relevant. But the idea that you'll not even be able to have private conversations with friends and family... I don't agree.
We know each other's passwords. We know each other's email accounts. We just don't go there unless there is a reason. And usually if there's a good reason (information only found in the other person's email that's relevant to us) it's totally cool.
I've never even thought about hiding my passwords from my wife. We've shared pretty much everything from the get-go, including finances, for the past thirteen (?) years. I'd think it just makes things easier: sure, we could do a lot of damage to each other with the things we know, but isn't that what trust is about? I trust that even if we had a falling out at some point, all of my confidential information would be safe, and certainly vice versa. We've had a lot of conflict over the years, including money and "secrets", but it certainly helps that there are no actual secrets.
Regarding email, we often leave our accounts open. It hasn't even crossed my mind to check out her emails and I trust that she hasn't gone through mine, except when there's an emergency of some kind. So while there's no real, guaranteed privacy, people can still respect each other's personal space. You don't need secrets to need privacy.
http://dustygamer.mcmuumio.net | Xbox Live Gamertag MC Muumio
My personal reaction would be to run.
But people like and dislike different things about different people, so something like this might be frustrating for you but not a deal-breaker.
Just remember one thing. If she's done it before, she'll do it again. If you can live with that, then no sweat.
xbox live: Lester King 17
Hide your secrets better from now on. She might still snoop, but the more you hide it the more she'll understand that she can't confront you with what you've found. The point is, you won't get into a confrontation about it, and she'll get whatever information she feels the need to find. Everybody wins.
You are not in a healthy relationship. If you have some sort of proof that it can be healed, by all means go for it. But if not
( she doesnt think anythings wrong, or is not able agree on basic rules, etc) its best to put the relationship beast down. This is only my opinion of course from the tiny bit of info available to me.
The brain you stole, Fritz. Think of it. The brain of a dead man waiting to live again in a body I made with my own hands!
http://isisless.deviantart.com/
XBOX LIVE: AtomicVideoHead
We know each other's passwords. We know each other's email accounts. We just don't go there unless there is a reason. And usually if there's a good reason (information only found in the other person's email that's relevant to us) it's totally cool.
This goes for Sleipnir and I, too. I think this is probably the best way to deal with email privacy in a healthy relationship, but it's not really something you can force, either.
I don't say it often, but I 100% agree with you, Paleo. Had it been me, I would have made the same call. Because to me, it's not the snooping that's so bothersome - although that's pretty disrespectful in and of itself - as much as her reaction, "You're not allowed to be mad about this, and in fact, as your fiancee, I'm entitled to it." Don't think so. In a committed relationship, there's a difference between the boundaries between two people naturally falling away over time, and having them ripped down like the walls of Jericho. Seems she's confused the two.
Hope you two can work this out, though. Good luck.
"Today's Tom Sawyer, he gets high on you, Kat. You." - Haakon7
You are completely entitled to feel the way you do, and you deserve an apology and a promise that it will never happen again.
Trust is the #1 most important thing in a relationship.
Your silence will not save you.
-Audre Lorde
I like to pretend sometimes that I have some sort of privacy from my wife, though what I'd do with that privacy is something of a mystery. In all practical terms, a marriage ends _your_ privacy as a complete individual and begins your privacy as a couple. There's a lot of giving up of little personal privacies over the years, whether they are overt as in this case or just by attrition as is usually the case. So, she's not entirely wrong, though (as you describe it) a little strident on the point.
I'm assuming, because you don't make a big deal on the point here, that you're willing to delete the offending correspondence? I mean, yeah it's a little unreasonable, but if it's bothering her and you're just packratting it anyway, it would be a little petty not to on some sort of principal. If you're going to be that way everytime your wife asks for something unreasonable, you'll have a lifetime of periodic crises.
Honestly, it sounds like you both got caught up in the heat of the moment of feeling wronged. She has no more right to be pissed about the email than you do that she felt it was legitimate to browse your email. Christ, man, you're going to be sharing financial responsibilities, not to mention bodily fluids, so email is pretty far down the things to get sensitive about sharing list; at least for me..
Or, at least, that's how I see it.
- Elysium
From the sound of things, your e-mail account has to be pretty huge. She would've really had to do some digging. I agree with Brennil that trust is paramount. It would take a degree of mistrust on her part to even think about rooting around like that.
Unfortunately, she'll probably tell her version of the story to her friends and get tons of support from them. This won't be an easily resolved issue.
Ultimately, it may be time to dismiss that e-mail account altogether and have a joint one.
Heh, not to stir the pot or anything, but maybe you ought to ask to read her private e-mails and see how she reacts.
XBL: NSMike | Steam | PSN: NSMike | Wii Friend Code: 7763 1519 2475 2278 | GWJ Google Calendar
Not necessarily. It's sitting there open on the desktop, and it's easy to imagine curiosity taking over the better natures.
- Elysium
I think the problem is not that she looked, but that she snooped with out asking.
For me its not easy to imagine, and for some other people as well it would be considered a grave invasion of privacy. If she is going to marry him she should know what bothers him and respectfully avoid it.
Run.
The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
STart emailing your friends about how much you love your fiancee and do it from her computer.
Is this the part where I point out that Elysium quit his job a while ago and is mooching off Elysias business?
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
Eh... I dunno. That's something little brothers do for blackmail against older sisters or something. I would think twice before rooting around my prospective mate's old e-mails. It's not like stumbling upon old love letters hidden in your sock drawer. This is a good bit more deliberate.
XBL: NSMike | Steam | PSN: NSMike | Wii Friend Code: 7763 1519 2475 2278 | GWJ Google Calendar
Rings true. I think my wife would probably respect any level of privacy I requested from her, but honestly after years of marriage I can't envision a relationship where I keep things from her. I don't know what the point would be anyway. I believe she feels the same way. But it took time for us to get to this point.
Early on I would have been troubled to learn that she went through an email account, or read a journal, etc. And I'd be troubled not so much because it was a violation of privacy, but evidence of a lack of trust on her part. In your case, it sounds like her snooping, and especially her anger, were both motivated by her insecurities about your commitment to the relationship.
Wrong as her actions may be, it's not surprising that she found the saved emails from former girlfriends upsetting. If you want to get past this at some point it may be worth your while to delete them, and then inform her you've done so. Marriage may involve the surrendering of some privacies, but I think it also involves relinquishing all ties to past romantic relationships.
Anyway, I've seen this kind of thing creep up during many an engagement. If you guys have what it takes to make a successful marriage, you should be able to get past this. Believe me, you'll face much bigger challenges.
XboxLive: Fly GWJ | PSN: The _Fly | AoC: Wiccana/Invicta/Dark Templar
My boyfriend leaves his email open all the time. I've never really snooped...well...because it is open.
It is normal to want to snoop I think and it hurts to see someone write lovey dovey things to someone else, even if it was the past. She seems remorseful.
Move on...much bigger things to worry about.
If this is a joke, it's a very poor one. Not only is it wrong, it's not even funny. If it was funny, the wrongness would be ok.
Yeah, it's scary. I'm staring into the abyss right now, and it's staring into me, which I think is kind of a dick move on the abyss's part. - Nyles
He speaks smart words. Maybe I've been married too long to remember what that kind of sense of encroachment felt like. It seems like there was a time that I would've gotten worked up about it. Now, considering how much I feel like it is not my life but our life, I have a different perspective.
- Elysium
It was intended to be humourous. I haven't seen the other Sean in a while, but last I checked he was working for his wifes graphics company (after his much posted about leaving of Electronics Botique), if this has changed I apologize, I just thought it was kind of funny that his advice seemed to be: you were wrong (admitedly it's not nearly as simple as that now that I read the whole thing instead of skimming it)...
Found the smily I had wanted:
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
Call me crazy, but I think she's so focussed on the old girlfriend emails she's not seeing that they're a small drop in an ocean of old emails. Logically, wouldn't you piece together that nothing gets deleted and that's why they still exist? I may be assuming much with 'logically.'
JUST PUZZLED YOUR ASS UP, SON! -Mr Crinkle
Steam Community: McChuck XBL: GWJ McChuck
I had taken it that way, of course. Certis just gets touchy when other people encroach on his territory, namely giving me a hard time.
- Elysium
That's really something... Hubby leaves his email open all the time. Hell I frequently use his laptop, saved passwords and all, and I've never had the urge to snoop through his accounts. And I trust him enough to let him use my laptop.
Perhaps you two should work on your communication and conflict resolution. Or buy His and Her doghouses. Just saying. :/
XBL / Art / Blog / Buy me!
I had taken it that way, of course. Certis just gets touchy when...giving me a hard...
This has been Vector's first attempt at OoCT.
Elysium wrote:
Danjo wrote: