WoW -- Arathi Basin strategy?
Sunday, February 24th, 2008 - 3:09pm
Lately, I've been running 60-69 AB, and it made me realize how awful alliance is at AB. We couldn't win. We weren't organized at all. We couldn't protect, everytime we got a capture it got taken away by the more organized horde. Any advice on winning AB?
"Everyone's always in favour of saving Hitler's brain but when you put it in the body of a great white shark, ooh, suddenly you've gone too far."
Hold the Blacksmith. Call out incoming attacks. I find that at the 70 bracket in Rampage that the Alliance is around 50/50 most games.
And remember, the Japanese aren't commercially whaling. They're conducting "research". Like "researching how delicious this whale is". - Paleocon
My advice...
If Alliance - two things, pray, and then hope you are lucky and got the one crappy horde team against you...
horde has beat us for 3 years...they are organized, we are apparently a bunch of 10 year olds who want the one badge...sadly...
thats it...nothing more
Unless you're running out of mana overhealing is the most worthless stat in the game. Underhealing is effectively known as "wiping".
so sayeth the Bear...
I guess I've been lucky in my AB matches. The main thing people need to remember is to Defend the flags you capture. Once Horde starts attacking them you need to remember to fight at the flag and attack whoever is trying to capture it.
Take Blacksmith, leave 2 at each base you have to defend and call out incoming. If you try to 5 cap you end up spreading out to much and losing your other flags. (unless you're up against a really bad Horde team). Being on vent helps as team can verbally call out incoming and give updates quicker.
Good luck and send me invite if you do AB as I need more honor and tokens
Smithysaboo - level 70 Dwarf Warrior
Alts:
Fathernelson - Level 10 Dwarf Priest
Oobas - level 42 Dwarf Hunter
Saboolock - Level 38 Gnome Warlock
And appernetly there is a glitchallowing the horde to make caps Just before the gate opens Just Fyi i saw this myself the other night and yet we still almost won
Yea though I have walked through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil because it will kill the clothies first
Terase - lvl 70 balance druid
Elorin - lvl 70 frost mage
Teriine - early 30s marksmen hunter
Terrion - early 20's warri
Sadly, I'm on a different server, but we are in the same battlegroup, so I might see you on there sometime(if you are on blackhand, that is).
"Everyone's always in favour of saving Hitler's brain but when you put it in the body of a great white shark, ooh, suddenly you've gone too far."
Hold the LM, you can see everything from up there. Have a mage slow fall from the LM to the blacksmith & do arcane explosion. They will never know what hit them.
Schnuggles- 70 destruction warlock
Newark- 70 restro druid
Schniggles- 70 frost mage
we used to have a team of 2 hold the stables 2 teams of 3 hold the lumber mill and mine and the rest were a swing team. They'd harrass and try and take the blacksmith/farm if possible, but would mainly move around to where the horde were attacking. The swing team had good effect when rushing past the BS and head straight to the farm and try and take it. It takes the pressure off the other points and more often than not able to then get the BS back and keep it.
Gamer Tag: Rantyr
If you have voice chat, it really helps. Whilst I would never claim to know much about pvp, our reasonably successful strategy was:
Team 1 go to Blacksmith, one member takes the stables and follows on with the rest
Team 2 go to the mine
Team 3 go to the lumber mill
Whichever of team 2 and 3 take their point first continue on to the farm.
The RL should have balanced the teams out already, with good dps and healing in each team.
This works really well against PUGs (I personally find horde PUGs to be more competent to work together better than alliance pugs, and I was alliance). The idea is to start off with a good amount of momentum, and catch them on the back foot. The leader should nominate specific people to counterattack enemy thrusts, to make sure that there is good resistance at each point.
There's nothing complicated about it, if the dps work well together and the healers do their job (which I found most patchy in alliance PUGs) then you do well. If you have 15 people not communicating and doing what they feel like you'll get rolled by even a half-organised enemy.
It will do good to heart and head
When your soul is in my soul's stead;
And I will friend you, if I may,
In the dark and cloudy day.
- AE Houseman, trailblazing XBL user
XBox Live
I'd also like to add that for a priest one of the coolest things ever is MC'ing someone off the cliff at the LM to their deaths
Gamer Tag: Rantyr
Back when I was still an active WoW player, my guild and some of the other guilds on our server would setup premade AB groups consisting of 15 Warlocks. We had a 100% win record. The typical score would be 2000-0 in our favor, although occasionally an opposing team would get maybe 200 pts.
No idea what class you are, but that was some of the most fun PvP I've ever done in WoW
-- My Biking Team --
What Reaper said.
There are two AB strategies that I push for:
1. If you team is good enough, push farm (or stables if you are horde) right out of the gate. By doing this you can lock most of the other team at their spawn and away from the flags. This often results in a 5-cap and a 5-minute victory. You can rarely do this with a PUG however.
2. Have 1 take stables, send 8 or 9 to BS and 5 or 6 to mine or LM. Once you have three points, hold with 2 or 3 at each and the other 7 or 8 a roving band to respond where needed. While you don't need BS, it can often be the key because it is so much easier to see and respond when you have BS then when you are trying to hold 3 of the other flags.
Defending nodes and communication are key. Calling out incoming can save you quickly.
If you're defending and outnumbered, call it out and do you best to keep them off the flag. On my feral druid for example, I drop to bear and swipe at anyone around the flag until support can arrive. I'm stacked on stam and def gear so I'm not gonna kill fast but it's going to take quite a lot to take me down.
If you can, get yourself an Ornate Spyglass so that you can take a look around when your defending, especially at the LM. The view form there is a strategic overlook to the whole BG. Plus you can not only ID incoming, but also find those lightly defended nodes ripe for the picking. Mats are cheap for the spyglass and every engy should have the pattern for it.
Also, don't get target focused. It's so tempting to charge after red text to help with a kill, but if your defending the node. Let them bring the fight to you. Don't stray because thats when rogues and druids like to lurk and ninja your resource and hence your rez GY.
Finally, if your attacking roll together. I've seen so many Alliance teams rez and roll into a Horde node single file and get picked off one by one.
I'm not the strongest of PvP players so I play D most of the time. Having stealth and humainoid tracking certainly helps with the defensive situational awareness and again communication of the information it brings is key.
Just my 2¢. AB has become my new favorite BG. We still get steamrolled once in a while, but I agree with Reaper. It's been about 50/50 for me.
Toonage: Jarranne - Gul'dan (Rampage)
"And thus I clothe my naked villany with odd old ends stol'n forth of Holy Writ, and seem a saint when most I play the devil." ~ William Shakespeare
Copingsaw is on the money.
Disrupt the capture of Farm out of the gate. Grab Stables, Lumber Mill and Blacksmith.
Lumbermill is a distinct advantage because: a) it's high ground and therefore b) easy vantage point to call out incomings.
This is nearly impossible to execute with a PuG. The masses think that because it's PvP they have to fight on the road and kill other players. Nevermind actually winning.
There are many other goods points presented so far - but good look finding a consistent PuG AB group that gets it.
Oh crumbs, I'm all thumbs laying here with you. You're beautiful and busty and I'm a little rusty - I've forgotten what to do...
Another thing that the PUG'ies seem to forget. FIGHT AT THE FLAGS! Sneaky druids,shamans,rogues love stealth capping points by people distracted.
Gamer Tag: Rantyr
Shaman can't stealth, but then again, that's never stopped me from running up to a flag and clicking on it, while everyone(horde OR alliance) just straight up ignores me.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote:
I’ve been playing alliance Arathi Basin for about 2 months now – all PUGs – and here’s my 2-cents worth:
Strategies:
BS is most strategic location. Horde seem to understand this better than alliance as they always send a strong contingent there out the gate, whereas alliance seem to more often prefer the wings – LM and GM. As in chess, when you control the center, you have maximum mobility – also easy to launch harassing attacks on farm and still maintain a reasonable defense on BS. Did I mention it’s also the best place to rez??
LM is second most strategic with GM a distant third (assuming of course ST and Farm are given caps out the gate for each respective faction). GM is most isolated and provides no strategic vantage points. You’re basically in a blind hole. Given a choice, always chose LM over GM. Seems obvious, but it’s surprising how many times I hear . . . and see alliance choosing to throw heavy defense and resources at the GM to allow a more strategic place (pretty much any other) to fall.
“Cap three and hold”, is a very common mantra you hear at pretty much every battle. In theory, a very solid strategy – if it could be done, you would always win. Problem is, of course, the horde have the same thing in mind. This is where you really need to get a feel for the relative strengths and player types of the two groups. Most of the wins on the alliance side I have been a part of tended to be more aggressive where defense and offence were very fluid and adaptive. It’s a poor use of resources to have 4 guarding GM if the battles are taking place at ST and BS. Mobility, good communication, and rapid response, mixed in with strategic harassing attacks – I’ll take these over 3 static groups of 5 trying to fend of horde at 3 locations.
Retake ST if you need a third cap. If you can’t retake it – given the relative close rez location – you’re probably out gunned and are going to lose anyway. If you switch to GM – which I see a lot – the Horde at stable will be there in a heartbeat and defeat you there as well and you’ll rez too far away to get back in the fray quickly.
I could go on . . . and on . . .and on . . but I doubt if anyone has read this far . . . I’ll make another post with my AB pet peeves . . .
It's interesting how dominant Horde usually is at AB, given the map is pretty darn even. I've played AB enough times from both sides to understand why.
AB Winning Strategy:
1. Ignore the mine. Alliance players, for some reason, always go after the mine. If you notice, the Horde tends to leave it alone except to be annoying and keep the Alliance on their toes. The problem with the mine is that it's damn difficult to defend given the wide-open terrain and there's no visibility. You can't see anything going on down there, so if you have 3 players guarding it, you're really playing 15 v 12 and you're going to lose most of the time. The winning strategy is simply ignore the mine except to keep the other team on their toes. This is, by far, the biggest mistake the Alliance makes. Take a look at the games you lose - I bet that you're holding the mine at the end of the game. This is the #1 key. If you get 3 Alliance toons heading down to the mine on the initial run out of the gates, it's almost automatically a loss.
2. You must hold the BS because it's the central point and the central spawn point. The Horde approach to the BS is a bit better than Alliance because of the LOS, but it's not a major advantage. If the Alliance ranged attackers would circle around the BS hut rather than go directly for the flag, they create a hell of a lot of chaos and usually have some pretty good free shots at clothies. In fact, a hunter coming around the backside can change the battle in an instant between pet attacks and silencing shot. Most Alliance hunters (and other ranged toons) come around the flag side and are instantly too close to the horde melee attackers. That's bad news. Go around if you're a ranged Alliance attacker! And yes, this goes against the conventional wisdom of fight at the flag - this is pretty much the only exception.
3. You also need the LM - preferably guarded by rogues, priests, druids and anyone else who can mitigate falling damage. It's a great vantage point - the exact opposite of the mine. You can see attacks coming from a mile away. So if you see an attack forming on the BS, you can have one or two guys jump down (with reduced falling damage) or feather fall down, cut across the water and reinforce the BS in 30 seconds. Too often I see an alliance warrior and a paladin sitting up here. They have no ranged attacks and no jumping damage mitigation, so it's exactly the wrong spot for them. Those guys need to be at the BS, where hiding inside the building creates LOS issues for ranged hordies and they have to walk right by the doorway to get to the flag.
4. You need at least 2 toons (if not more) at BS node and at least 3 at the LM at any one time. That's at a minimum. At least one of the ones at the LM needs to be prepared to go to the BS in an instant when an attack is forming (and before it's underway). 3 toons can usually hold a node long enough for reinforcements to come and with any kind of communication, you can have 4 ready on defense with more coming. In fact, if you have one or two guys at the stables holding the node, they can shift to the LM while the LM cliff-jumpers (all 3) go to the BS to create a defense force of 5.
5. Anyone back at the stables needs to be harassing the mine. You're really not trying to take and hold it, you're trying to cause them to react to your attacks. If they have 1 or 2 guys holding the mine and the 2 from the stables hit it, they'll call for reinforcements. That will reduce pressure on the other nodes. And the stables that are wide-open at that point? Well, if you're hitting the mine and holding the LM and BS, only a stealthed toon is going to get by you to take the LM (where there's a fair amount of traffic anyway).
6. Mobility is the key. With only 5 static defenders (3 at LM, 2 at BS), you have 10 toons to create chaos across the map. Having the guys from the Stables raid the mine helps. If you can have 3-4 guys always pressing towards the Farm on the BS/LM side, the Horde will get bottled up there. And what happens if they break through? Well, they'll be attacking the same area in which you'll be respawining in the next 20 seconds, so it's easy to beat them back.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
IF, IF you can be organized, I think BS/ST/GM can work very nicely, because the run distance is least between those three. If you have a response force that forms up roughly at the crossroad there, they can respond to incs and defend whatever needs defending pretty well. I don't see any real difference between defending any of the points, with the sole exception of the ranged coming around the side of the hut at the BS -- that's a very good idea.
Yes, the GM has poorer visibility, but if you have an organized team, that's not THAT critical. Eyes elsewhere on the map can spot for you.
That said, the Alliance is almost never that organized, so the LM idea is probably better on any kind of PUG team. And if you have a lot of people who can fall without taking much damage, the LM might be a superior idea in general... but for many classes, it takes longer and hurts a lot more to go from LM->BS than from GM->BS.
Ever since 2.4, Alliance on Rampage server have fared much better on AB. I'd say my win percent has been 50% the last few months, which is much better than the 25% I was running at prior. In fact, My overall win percent on BG's has increased to 48% (I have a fubar plugin that tracks it) since 2.4. Alliance doesn't seem nearly as hopeless to me as they have in the past.
Yeah, I had always played horde in WoW, but eventually decided I was gonna play Alliance - the 'traditional' wisdom that Horde is/was more 'mature' than Alliance is woefully wrong. Plenty of idiocy on both sides, and it seems worse on some servers than others.... by far, actually.. heh
So I ended up going with Alliance - and yea... the BG suckage, well... sucks. I do recall lots of Easy wins in AB on Horde side. They did communicate some - but it was just like an unwritten rule - go for BS and LM first. But sometimes the teams were quite clueless.
I see a lot of posts like 'OMG, I'm going to Horde Alliance sux so bad' - and I think - that's fine, let all the people who want EZ-mode switch sides. Eventually, I'll end up with a PUG of a bunch of persistent bastages sometimes
I recall one guy on Horde side had a macro he'd hit at the beginning of the BG with basic strats - think maybe I'll put one together and do that too. Some people are just clueless and not stupid, others are just stupid and clueless - so maybe it has a 25% chance of actually impacting some of the crappier players? lol
I have always believed that the advantage lies with whoever has the LM, BS, and farm, which is probably easier for the horde to snatch up right from the start. Placing 2 people at each flag and the rest of the team right where the roads to each place meet is a tough setup. They can respond to any attacks quickly it rather difficult to take any of the three points without a well organized attack on more than one point at a time.
As horde, I (very) rarely win any BGs on Rampage with the exception of AB.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
Fight on the flag.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams