I play a warlock, and have never played a mage. I don't think you can really make a direct comparison between warlock and mage as each serves its own niche in a raid/group and can each put out the damage. I've seen the warlocks on the higher end of the damage meters than mages in the raids I've been on but of course, that is compromised by need to cc and simply the type of fight. You'll even find dps variability within a warlock's different talent specs.

The crits should not really fascinate you as crits are not reflective of overall damage done which is what you should care about on a boss. If anything, they sometimes cause you more headache as you land a series of unfortunate crits too early in the fight.

In terms of gear, they both are the same at 70. Tailored items are the way to go when initially gearing up and in raids, you'll be competing with them (and shadow priests) for the majority of drops.

Typically destro spec does not surpass affliction spec until ~T5 but it is skill and raid dependent (numbers to shoot for such as crit, +hit, +dmg, are harder to achieve early on to make destruction viable on boss encounters). I've also seen Demonology spec shine at this stage too. Affliction suffers at the higher end because of limited debuffs and the higher end items that give substantial +crit and +haste have lower value for affliction.

I have a 68 hunter and before BC used him specifically for pvp so i understand that. I also have seen the gear that's available to hunters...

Still my questions are for the lock and mage. I'm having a hard time deciding between the 2 (most likely will stay pvp oriented), and thought i'd ask around. Till i decide i'll just take turns swapping back/forth between them.

Warlock's are vastly more versatile if you're thinking of focusing on PvP. I hate to put it this way, but a mage's main defense is to "not get hit", which really doesn't work very well since we lose all mobility while casting our best spells. Either you're going to spec in a way to get high crits (fire, Arc/fire), or you'll spec for kiting and slight damage mitigation (frost). Either way, the main strategy is the same... kill them before they can hit you.

Warlocks can at least soak up a bit of damage, keep a lot of their mobility while fighting, and have a pet to keep the person busy. Not to mention, fear. The warlock's main goal is to outlast the person while the DoT's are ticking. It's a much easier game to play.

The big things that the mage does have in it's favor, is that gear isn't real hard to find, you don't have to pay for food/water, and you don't spend nearly as much time in the air as anyone else by teleporting to the major cities. I enjoy playing my mage, but it is a more challenging class to get the hang of, especially in PvP.

It depends on what you're fighting too though. Every class has their nemesis. My lock has alot of trouble with rogues (go figure) and warriors (fury or arms). Either one can basically cut me to peices. As affliction you're only real option with them is to CoX, DOT, and run. They both shrug off fear like it's a joke (warriors are practically immune to it if played correctly). Rogues just CoS out of everything then tear you apart. You pretty much won't win against a rogue as a warlock and you will generally loose to a DPS warrior as well.

However, I have to admit there is a certain evil pleasure in DOTing something up and watching it die slowly. It's even funny getting killed by someone then getting a killing blow on them while you're rezzing because they couldn't get your DOT's off them.

I don't have first hand experience playing a mage in PvP. I have alot of experience fighting them. On my warrior I don't even bother anymore. Mages are the anti-warrior. In a straight-up fight they beat me everytime. One of the reasons I rolled my warlock was so I could inflict vengeance on mages (and it's worked out well). Frost Mages can be tough to fight sometimes in PvP.

I think it's a toss up frankly. If you like seeing big numbers pop up on your screen the mage is the way to go. If you like a little more durability and steady killing go warlock.

One other thing that may influence your decision is the downtime factor. Locks are farming/grinding machines. They can just go on killing forever without stopping to drink/eat by making use of their drains effectively. Mages have a repeptitive kill/drink routine that can get annoying.

I echo DeepSea's comments.

I would say it is a DPS scratch between a lock and a mage in PVE. The utility advantage may go to the mage but a slight DPS advantage may go to the lock. So much of it depends on spec and skill. From a leveling standpoint, the lock is easier.

From a PVP standpoint, as a general rule, you will see locks do better in arena and BG's, mostly because they have more tools at their disposal. You will rarely see a fire mage do well in PVP but I have seen good frost mages completely own in PVP. When a lock owns, people just say they are OP; when a mage owns, you take notice because it isn't as common.

Bottom line, play the one you have the most fun with.

I have trouble seeing any sort of mage "own" in Battlegrounds without a team of people who are finely tuned into playing support specifically for them.

Have played both into the higher ranges, and here's my thoughts. At the higher end, dps is darn near the same. I was destro before, and went affliction on the lock. Before that, the only players I fell behind on the damage meters when I tried were Shank and Vall, and could match Cope and Sigs. Since going Affliction, I now can equal the latter two in the raids since the dots over time proc so well. I've pulled away from the crits noting that pure damage will outdo a crit focused lock/mage almost every time. I see my damage really outdo my heavy destro spec by a lot.

From a pvp instance, I think its been covered that lock's are one of the better classes, so if thats the focus, go lock.

From a full utility, above it was mentioned mage - I go the exact opposite. Mages have the lovely mana food, sheep, and can freeze things in place - and the portal is still handy. Locks have - soulstone, healthstones unlimited, see invisibility, succubus for seduce, imp for hp buff, felbeast for silences mages, summon, and if you go destro, I think shadowfury doesn't get the credit it deserves to stun mobs (and proc SoC) - that 2-3 seconds is 2-3 seconds the mob just sits and gets beat on, AND, can interrupt explosions and casters.

Play what you enjoy is the best advice given...but I'm a 'lock man.

If it is for PVP, I woudl say go lock.
I totally SUCK at PVP, yet as a lock, i can still manage just fine.
I woudl not be able to with my mage I am sure.

Outlining a few, select, very specific situations that it does extrodinarily well in doesn't make it a good overall spell. That's not 'thinking outside the box', as you put it, it's taking the situations where it's actually useful, and pointing them out.

Second, you aren't a tank class. There are a few specific encounters where you are unavoidably going to wind up on top of the aggro table. This is not tanking.

Third: There is a better tools to prevent mobs from fleeing than Shadowfury; it's called Curse of Recklessness, and it even reduces armor, which gives it more utility than SF.

Fourth: A good healer isn't going to be anywhere near the top of the aggro list unless the tank is stunned.

Fifth: SF, and stuns in general, are a crappy method for CC, and should be used as a last resort tactic, not a standard tactic.

Guess a summary is learn to play.

AnimeJ, with all due respect...you said it had no credit. I didn't say its the most useful spell in the game, or something a lock will use in every battle or instance...but I easily disproved your theory with the number of issues.

Never said i was a tank class, but on illhoof, the lock in effect becomes the second tank. And not sure what you are playing, but ending up on the aggro table has no application to a lock being a tank, never inferred that.

Pally's and warriors and rogues and hunters all have tools to keep a mob from fleeing, but if they are focused, and a mob starts walking, having another tool in the bank is just that. And yeah, CoR is there, but generally, unless its specific need, CoA, CoS, CoS, and CoE all get tosses before it. And while it reduces armor, it increases damage...not something you always want on tough mobs.

Guess you called all our healers out...eh? good on ya. Everyone of them at some time or other has hit the top of the list...a failed sunder, a couple of healing crits, or hey, how bout when the MT dies and the second tank needs a sec to get the mob under control? Maybe you haven't seen a wipe, but I've seen this happen, and we have about the best group of healers I know of...

I believe I stated your 5th point. These are situations...nothing more. Now, you are wrong on the stunning the exploding mob...dead wrong. But as a standard CC means, SF is not the way to go.

As far as learning to play, guess you think I don't know what I'm doing. Thanks on that man. I won't say the same about you, because honestly, you do a heckuva job at your class, but what gets me is you speak with authority on ALL classes so frequently...and in cases like this, you are simply wrong, but can't admit it. That's all there is to that.

Go read EJ; on mobs that flee, the extra damage(roughly 1%, if that) is going to be more than easily healed through. As such, CoR is far better than SF. Math wins on this one.

Nope, because last night I was there on Moroes. My @$$ was dead on the floor before he hit 50% because Zel was blinded, Smithy was gouged and the DPS was trying so hard to keep their aggro down(which they did a damn fine job of, I might add), that chain heal spam from me kicked me up the chart. Stuff happens, and you'll never see me deny that(nor did I). But in general, those situations are VERY rare, especially if everything is clicking perfectly.

I'm well aware of the mobs that explode. But 2 seconds doesn't give a large enough window to kill the mob in; I prefer rogues stuns, Hammer of Justice, Bash, some other longer term stun. Simply put, there are far better tools for dealing with that than SF.

As to you not knowing how to play, I felt flamed, I flamed back. You do a good job at what you do, no doubt. But you responded badly to what I put forth as constructive criticism, and came down on my head like a ton of bricks full of arrogance about how SF was so useful and good. And you know what? The two of us can continue being tools to each other, pissing back and forth about how much it sucks or doesn't suck. It will, as I'm sure we both realize, do nothing but piss each other off, and that though in and of itself pisses me off even more. I hate being angry.

I speak with authority on classes often because I spend a LOT of time learning about them. I know most cookie cutter spec's by heart. I know DPS rotations for nearly every DPS class in the game. I know preferred stats, and what I don't know, I can find. I pride myself on that knowledge, and live to share it. However, as we have learned here, and many times in the past, I don't always share it well.

I've played a mage up to 67, so while I'm far from an expert, I have a pretty good feel for the class.

In PvP, a warlock beats most classes, both in group PVP and individual dueling. Mages can be deadly, but most classes, well-played, can make their lives at least somewhat difficult. Mages eat feral druids and warriors, and have a 50/50 chance against a rogue if the rogue gets the first attack. But hunters, resto druids, and warlocks will all beat them. Mages are warlock food. A frost mage is very survivable, but overall, locks have a big edge. As far as I know, the only class that really makes locks miserable is a beast mastery hunter.

PvP magery also takes very fast reaction times and extremely quick, correct decision making. From what I can see, locks don't suffer nearly as much from a bit of inattention or a slightly wrong call. With a mage, you have to execute absolutely perfectly or you will die. If, however, you DO execute perfectly, you will get many kills. Mages are definitely a good class if you think very fast, but if you're aren't really, really quick, you will find them frustrating in PvP.

For raiding, mages are a little better for utility (food and crowd control) and for AOE stuff. Warlocks are much higher damage against bosses, where their DoTs and curses have time to tick. Personally, I don't consider a raid complete unless there's at least one of each.

As far as gearing goes, I think it's pretty similar for both. Take that with a grain of salt, though, as I haven't geared either class for raiding.

Edit to add: yeah, more downtime on mages. They're slower to level, particularly solo. They're much easier to level with a group.

Wrong. You've mistaken this for an unmoderated public forum where this kind of petty sniping back and forth is tolerated.

Both of you; start acting like adults who can keep in mind that this is a video game, and keep your tempers in check.