GOOD J-RPGs, and other myths?

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Diamond Sutra's picture
Location: Cary, NC (or Japan)

Hey all. I was reviewing this thread:
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/37516

I'm not huge into console/PC RPGs (I'm actually a big tabletop fanatic, as Quintin Stone can attest to). But I've played my fair share of console Western and J-RPGs over the years.

I'm looking to see if there are memorable/good RPGs that one can conceivably pick up for an existing console (in other words, not "Game X for the SNES", etc).

What I'd like to do is talk about the J-RPGs that you found good or memorable in the past few years. And not talk much at all about what you thought sucked.

Here's my list:

Shadow Hearts 2 (Covenant) : The best RPG for the PS2, IMO. Interesting setting, huge scope (2 disk game) of plot which travels all over the place. Great powerups, cool secrets, interesting range of characters in terms of fighting styles and personalities. Plot was epic and fun. Lots of bonus content/powerups that don't require autistic schoolchildren to complete. Random combats are sucky, but there are action-y elements to the combat which made them ok. Gameplay was fair, not being too hard overall, which honestly I like (If I want hard, I'll play Shin Megami Tensei, where every random encounter can f*ck you up and kill you. Not fun for me).
Unfortunately, SH3 isn't nearly as engaging as 2. But 2 is some badass epic fun.

Final Fantasy X: The mini-games were exasperating, and the unskippable cutscenes were flat-out too long (that was probably the game that got all other companies into installing cut scene bypass buttons). But in the end, it was a light RPG where you didn't have to worry in every mook battle about getting wiped out. Pretty graphics, interesting characters, and for some unknown reason I found myself pretty interested in the love plot and all the emo-ness. In the end, I think it was the pan-asian character/set/costume design that I found really otherworldly. Blitzball and the "every 5 seconds random combat" thing was annoying for me, tho, but the rest outweighed the bad in my book.

Persona 3: While it did suffer from repetitive play as you advanced through a school year, it too allowed you all sorts of levels of cool customization with the persona (read: GODS) you control. Nothing quite like charging into battle with Susano-O, Vishnu, and the Archangel Gabriel. The plots, from the character level to the background/story, were pretty interesting IMO. The side-plots were engaging. The combat play was repetitive at times too ("random combats... which you can choose to fight or not"). Gameplay was both "real" (school) and epic (save humanity).

Odin Sphere: Got a lot of hype, but it too was honestly fun for me. Unique in its 2d side scrolling/action theme. It's set in a cool fantasy-SF mashup world of norse mythology. Boss battles are challenging and exciting (especially the last). The "grinding parts" where you level up to fight the big boss involve Cooking Meals, and even so it's like 40 minutes (and not hours). And the story, overall, is awesome: One happy ending, and 3 very unhappy endings, all at once.

Haven't played any J-RPGs on XBOX, DS, GC, Wii, etc so I can't speak to other consoles.

Anyone else pick out any J-RPGs that they think are "good", or would recommend to others?

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0kelvin's picture
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Final Fantasy 12 starts off pretty great. You won't finish the game (nobody finishes this game), but for at least the first ten or twenty hours it's the best Final Fantasy in years.

I actually prefer Final Fantasy X-2 to Final Fantasy X, but I'm certainly in the minority there. It cut away a lot of the cruft that's built up on the series over the years and really went straight for the fun.

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0kelvin wrote:
Final Fantasy 12 starts off pretty great. You won't finish the game (nobody finishes this game), but for at least the first ten or twenty hours it's the best Final Fantasy in years.

Why?

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Location: Boston

Nei wrote:
0kelvin wrote:
Final Fantasy 12 starts off pretty great. You won't finish the game (nobody finishes this game), but for at least the first ten or twenty hours it's the best Final Fantasy in years.

Why?

I don't know but 0kelvin's template fits me perfectly. Got about 15-20 hours in, loved every minute of it, but somehow moved onto something else before seeing it through to the end.

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For me, it was just too long to hold my interest. I can't speak for anyone else, but it seems everyone I've talked to about the game lost interest at some point and never finished it.

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I played, and finished, Final Fantasy XII (granted, it took me several months of playing on-and-off), and I've distanced myself from it enough to say that it was my favorite Final Fantasy game yet. It's the combat system that does it. Going back to a traditional JRPG turn-based system just feels awkward now, unless it's done really well (i.e. Persona 3 )

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Nei wrote:
Why?

*I* finished it.
I very much enjoyed the combat and the leveling system (which allowed me to have anyone learn any weapon/spell I wanted to throw at them). Storywise, I wasn't impressed with the overall plot. I don't remember any of the character's names (save Vaan: There was 'Girl', 'Princess', 'Han Solo', 'Bunny Chewbacca', and 'General Good Twin'). There were some exciting battles and side-stories around the middle/mid-end, but the end was ho-hum, maybe?

But personally, I loved the fight system in FFXII. I wish there was That in FFX. But oh well.

-Andy

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Nei wrote:
0kelvin wrote:
Final Fantasy 12 starts off pretty great. You won't finish the game (nobody finishes this game), but for at least the first ten or twenty hours it's the best Final Fantasy in years.

Why?

Strange... I was about 20 hours into FF12 and I never got back to it again. I had a lot of fun until that point in the game. Maybe I should finish it just to prove 0kelvin wrong. I love doing that...

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JRPGs that I think are worth playing for anyone who likes the genre, roughly in chronological order (with caveats where appropriate):

Final Fantasy 4 -- SNES
Not my favorite in the series, but a fun story with charming characters, and a bit of a cultural touchstone. A good history lesson.

Final Fantasy 5 -- SNES
You'll probably have to play it on the GBA or PS1 though, unless you are into ROM hacking/patching. I actually don't care much for the story or characters, but it's got some interesting game mechanics. Another good history lesson.

Final Fantasy 6 -- SNES
My favorite game of that era, and a real turning point for the genre in terms of experimenting with character development and narrative methods. Also a graphics and sound masterpiece for the time, and super polished in every way.

Chrono Trigger -- SNES
The first "gateway drug" for the genre. Other than FF7, this game was where more people I know got into the genre than any other. Slick, streamlined, and approachable with a story telling mechanic that easily lends itself to multiple playthroughs. Also, better graphics than even FF6, and depending on your preference of compositional styles between Uemetsu and Mitsuda, better sound as well.

Final Fantasy 7 -- PS1
If you've played one game in the genre, it was probably this one, and for good reason. While I still liked the characters and story of FF6 better, and wasn't as charmed by the "materia" system as other folks, this game is undeniably a landmark milestone in the genre. Another game that you should play if you care to know the history of the genre. It's just a shame that the production values (particularly the translation) are so spotty thanks to its rushed release.

Suikoden 1 -- PS1
Actually, I think this may have come out before FF7, but whatever. A quick (20 or 25 hours), light, and traditional entry in the genre. It is notable mostly for laying the groundwork for the brilliance that was Suidoden 2 and 3, with its large collection of recruitable characters, its finely crafted plot, and the supremely rewarding castle building system. Also, you will get a lot more out of Suikoden 2 if you play this first.

Suikoden 2 -- PS1
I can think of no game that tells a tale of political intrigue better than this one (FF12 pales in comparison). Like S1, it features a very fast and light set of battle mechanics, but also like S1 it has startling depth and variety thanks to its improvements of the groundwork of the series. If you go back and play one game from this era, make it this one.

Xenogears -- PS1
Do you hate long cutscenes and drawn out dialogue? Then don't play this game. If you do have the proclivity for such things, the endurance to make it through 70+ hours of it, and the desire to unravel the many layers of political and religious intrigue that make up the plot, you will be glad you did though. This game is still among my favorite games of any type because of the sheer brilliance of the many storytelling and gameplay concepts that were attempted, even though most were not anywhere close to fully realized.

Chrono Cross - PS1
Although technically a sequel to Chrono Trigger, the connections are so tenuous that you almost wonder if they weren't maybe an afterthought meant to help garner this game some attention in the jam packed PS1 era JRPG market. That's not to say that the game didn't deserve attention, though -- high production values and a fascinating (if convoluted) story were paired with a rather unique battle system to produce a very enjoyable final package.

Vagrant Story -- PS1
Given how action oriented the game is, it's almost hard to classify it as a JRPG, yet enough of the core values of the genre are there to barely squeeze by. The game is almost unforgiving in its insistence that you learn the intricacies of it's weapon crafting system, but the potential frustration of the game's difficulty level is worth dealing with to get to the meat of the characters and story. Both are mature and dark in a way never seen in the genre before, and rarely seen since. Also, the game features an extremely appealing art style and cinematic story presentation that was rarely matched even in the next generation of consoles. Oh, and on top of that it has one of the best written localizations ever -- every JRPG should aspire to the standard set by this game.

Final Fantasy 10 -- PS2
My favorite entry in the series, even though many seem to be turned off by it. Admittedly, as the first entry in the series to feature voice acting it was a bit rough to get through the beginning of the game, but unlike the last game in the series to push technology forward (FF7) this game was polished and finished and only got better as you went along. On top of that, in my books the quality of its battle system was only topped in the genre by its direct sequel, and the game features my favorite video game character ever (Auron).

Final Fantasy 10-2 -- PS2
Okay, this game really won't be for everyone. Actually, it won't be for a lot of people. However, if you loved the world and characters in FF10 and you can get past the saccharin sweet bubble gum pop intro, this game has charm, character, polish, and the brilliant culmination of the "job system" that the series had been working on since FF1. Few will every play it I'm sure, but if you can get into it, you will undoubtedly be pleasantly surprised.

Suikoden 3 -- PS2
Perhaps not the masterpiece that S2 was, but still brilliant in all the ways that the early games in the series were. Also, while many people didn't like the fact that the battles were slowed down a bit, the complexity that was responsible made combat in the game quite fun.

Xenosaga 1-3 -- PS2
So everything I said about Xenogears earlier? Same goes here, but multiplied by 2. I sh*t you not, on multiple occasions there are cutscene/dialog segments that approach an hour in length. It's also worth noting that there was a serious drop in quality in Xenosaga 2 (especially in the writing of the translation and the voice work presenting it), but in the end it's worth working your way through to see the way the story is brought to a close in Xenosaga 3. The series was supposed to actually have six parts in total, but given the lackluster sales of the second game the story was brought to a satisfying end after part 3, with window left open for a future sequel. Sadly, we'll probably never see it.

Final Fantasy 12 -- PS2
Everyone else seemed to like this game more than I did. It was definitely a lot of fun and I enjoyed myself the entire time I was playing it, but the story and characters never inspired me to become invested in the outcome of the game. Still worth a play, but honestly I'd recommend FF10 and 10-2 over it.

Suikdoden 5 -- PS2
Suikoden 4 was entirely skippable even for diehard fans of the series, but if you loved the earlier games this one will probably put a smile on your face. It's nothing stunning, but it's a fun walk down memory lane.

Okami -- PS2
Okay, this isn't really an JRPG at all. It's a Zelda clone. But it is beautiful and fun, and everyone should play it.

Persona 3 -- PS2
Dating sim meets dungeon crawl is not the description of any game I'd ever think I'd enjoy, yet this game pulls it off. It's very traditional in its approach to combat and statistical character development but supremely unique in its narrative and emotional character development. Not for the faint of heart, though -- it is long and towards the end it can be quite challenging.

Anyway, that's not an exhaustive list to be sure, and I didn't include tactical RPGs like FF Tactics, Front Mission, Disgaea, and Jeanne D'Arc, but those are some of the major highlights of the genre in my book. I'm sure other folks will post a lot of games that I loved but forgot, though, as the PS1 and PS2 days were chock full of great games in the genre.

(Also, I didn't include any Saturn or Dreamcast games since I never owned those systems, and yes there aren't any Xbox, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox 360, or PS3 games either, since I don't think any truly good JRPGs are on those systems (yet). Here's hoping for Lost Odyssey, though. )

Edit: Dragon Quest 8 -- PS2
The only game in this series that I ever was able to finish. The rest always ended up boring me to tears, but this game was charming an lighthearted, had a quality translation, and while it was traditional in its battle mechanics, it at least updated the visual presentation.

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I guess I'm one of the few that finished FFXII. I've actually put some time into the game, it think 170 hours or so, but I think I've done the majority of what the game had to offer.
I for on, really enjoyed the story. Granted there was not much of it, but I really like new focus of saving the country rather than 'save the planet' or the 'planet's spirit', 'tree of life', etc...

As for other JRPG, I really like the 'Tales of ...' games, specifically, Symphonia on GC and the Abyss on PS2.

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0kelvin wrote:
Final Fantasy 12 starts off pretty great. You won't finish the game (nobody finishes this game), but for at least the first ten or twenty hours it's the best Final Fantasy in years.

Are you kidding? I couldn't put it down. I had to force myself to play other games after finishing the story at the 100-hour mark rather than continuing to do all the sidequests.

FFXII and Dragon Quest 8 are much-loved by me, and both rival the classic greats in jrpg history. Persona 3 is rapidly proving how awesome it is to me, and there were several others from the recent past that I loved. I will need to put some time into a quality response to this thread later.

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In addition to what was already mentioned, you can grab Grandia II for the PS2 for $10. Fantastic game (I'd be happy to elaborate if you like) - it's a shame the later additions to the series weren't anything special.

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0kelvin wrote:
Final Fantasy 12 starts off pretty great. You won't finish the game (nobody finishes this game), but for at least the first ten or twenty hours it's the best Final Fantasy in years.

140 hours in and I'm working on my second and third Tournesol (DAMN YOU HELL'S GATE FLAMES!). Don't ask me why.

Zigguratbuilder wrote:
Final Fantasy X: The mini-games were exasperating, and the unskippable cutscenes were flat-out too long (that was probably the game that got all other companies into installing cut scene bypass buttons). But in the end, it was a light RPG where you didn't have to worry in every mook battle about getting wiped out. Pretty graphics, interesting characters, and for some unknown reason I found myself pretty interested in the love plot and all the emo-ness. In the end, I think it was the pan-asian character/set/costume design that I found really otherworldly. Blitzball and the "every 5 seconds random combat" thing was annoying for me, tho, but the rest outweighed the bad in my book.

Blitzball may be the single greatest addition to the FF universe and anyone who doesn't think so is entitled to their opinion.

I really enjoyed the dressphere system of X-2. The save plus feature was long overdue and I like that I can change the class mid-battle to suit my needs. I'm not a fan of sailor moon. In fact, I ended up turning off the changing animation.

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Final Fantasy 12 was the best one since, but not better than the best.. Final Fantasy 3 (It's 3 to me! No bloody 6).
Though, I am like everybody else and I stopped playing about 20+ hours in. I don't know why, everything about the game was really good.

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Dear Squeenix, or whatever you guys have on the sign these days, remake (not port!) FF6 with the FF12 battle system, complete with that dragoon lance guy flying off screen only to land on somebody's head from time to time in glorious 3d. Now then, get to work code monkeys!

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Dragon Warrior 4 for the NES. I'll put this game against any game on the list.

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Jesus, Zero. Your list pretty much summed up the last five years of my life. Nicely done.

Recreational Villain wrote:
remake (not port!) FF6 with the FF12 battle system, complete with that dragoon lance guy flying off screen only to land on somebody's head from time to time in glorious 3d.

I believe you're thinking of Kain from FF4 (or Freya from FF9). No lancing in FF6 that I recall.

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I feel a little sad that FF8 isn't mentioned. I really liked the junction and level system in that game and the storyline was quite kooky. I prefered that one to FF7 and 9. FFX had the superior storyline even if (as someone else has said somewhere i read/listened to once) they underutilised the imagery and iconography of the main emphasis of the storyline

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But there was too much of an artifical grind suddenly before you could climb up the mountain and confront the boss up there... in comparison with the continuous grinds in 7 and 9 which had more diverse environments to explore and grind in betwen those types of boss encounters and thus i never finished it.

I second Chrono Trigger - brilliant game and you can easily get it for a SNES emulator these days... stick it on an R4 and you can probably get it running on the DS.

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I liked and finished Shadow Hearts 2 and FF12.

I have played about half of SMT Nocturne and Shadow Hearts 3 but the magic isn't there.

I haven't really enjoyed any other examples of the genre.

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oops double posted.

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KaterinLHC wrote:
Recreational Villain wrote:
remake (not port!) FF6 with the FF12 battle system, complete with that dragoon lance guy flying off screen only to land on somebody's head from time to time in glorious 3d.

I believe you're thinking of Kain from FF4 (or Freya from FF9). No lancing in FF6 that I recall.

Correct. I realized halfway into the drive home that I botched my US to JPN numbering. They can still update (not port!) both FF2 and FF3 (US) anytime they'd like though!

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They are actually working on an update to FF4 for the DS -- it will have graphics in the style of the recent FF3 remake. While it's not a glorious high def reinvisioning like we'd all certainly like, it is something I guess.

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I gave up on FFX when I lost count of the number of things that made me go WTF. Odin Sphere is in NO WAY an RPG. Noob.

Also, Skies of Arcadia and Rogue Galaxy FTMFW.

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Good call on Skies of Arcadia.

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The most recent releases from Legend of Heroes series, Sora no Kiseki FC and SC are nice, solid RPG titles. It avoids some conventional problems that plague the genre, such as random enemy encounters, and boasts interesting combat and character building system.

I kept wondering what the game's true strength is, but can't make head or tail of it. I did finish FC, all 50 hours of it. It's the first JRPG that I ever played from beginning to the end, and I played some good ones.

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Phantasy Star IV.

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Can't forget about Working Designs

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One day I will finish Okami, FFXII, Xenogears, Wild Arms 3, and Rogue Galaxy. They are all fun games but I don't have the time. This summer should allow for that.

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I think my problem with FFXII was that after getting far enough in the game, the gambit system basically automated fighting for me. Once the game started playing itself, I was pretty much free to go play something else.

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zeroKFE wrote:
Chrono Cross - PS1
Although technically a sequel to Chrono Trigger, the connections are so tenuous that you almost wonder if they weren't maybe an afterthought meant to help garner this game some attention in the jam packed PS1 era JRPG market. That's not to say that the game didn't deserve attention, though -- high production values and a fascinating (if convoluted) story were paired with a rather unique battle system to produce a very enjoyable final package.

The game was definitely meant for people who played through Chrono Trigger multiple times and have a firm grasp on the story. Although not initially apparent, both games have a lot to do with each other. The overall Chrono Trigger/Cross story is a brilliant one, though you may need to search for a timeline to keep track of the story.

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Zigguratbuilder speaks a great deal of truth... in fact, I may have to make sure he's not been pokin' round my PS2, because the four titles he elaborates upon (Shadow Hearts 2, Final Fantasy X, Odin Sphere, Persona 3) are four of my all-time favorite PS2 titles. I just finished Persona 3 a couple of days ago, and I picked it up the day after it came out.

Here's a couple more that I loved:

Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits (PS2) : Awesome battle system and some great characters. Bebedora remains one of my favorite chracters ever.

Bebedora: I am Bebedora. Your puppet. I control and am controlled.
You are Darc. My master. You control and are controlled.

Delma: Man! Another weirdo in the group!

Atelier Iris (PS2) Graphics that only a Super Nintendo could love, but a heart of gold. Plus, there are some genuinely funny scenes. Whenever there's a magically summoned manta ray grinding itself into the crotch of the protaganist while a perky female companion vocalizes 'ENjjjjjoying yourself?' in a shocked voice you know you've found something special.