This feels weird, I am buying games now....
So, I do not know how many gamers here are 100% into legally owned games... I guess ... maybe 10?
Anyway, buying games wasn't really it for me for a long time. Yes, it is stealing. I admit it and actually never denied that fact either in my life.
Starcraft was one of the few games that I did buy. That's the thing. I felt it deserved the amount of money they asked.
Now, my wife owns an iMac for a while. She demands it's all legal. Whatever we put on there. Especially when we can afford it. She's got a point ![]()
So now, I am playing Civ IV (complete edition), legally. And right now I am downloading the 'Orange Box' through Steam. Good deal as well. HL2, Episode 1, 2 and lost cost, Portal, TF2 and Peggle Extreme for a total that is a little shy of 60$US. Good deal if you consider that I live in the Netherlands atm (going to Canada this year though).
I must admit. GWJ helped me getting towards this point as well. When reading, I see the real passion for gaming. See the online meetings being organized (love the high level of communication! lol)
Companies that can make this happen with the software they produce, earn to be supported.
I guess this can be my retro active new years solution :
going legal ![]()
Ok, who wants to throw the first stone? ![]()
'Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.'
Benjamin Franklin


I think I have one pirated CD image, and I've never actually played it.
If I had known how draconian the copy protection was, I'd have cheerfully stolen Bioshock, but other than that... no, I don't pirate games. I have a hard drive and HDLoader on my PS2, but every game on it is legit.
I think you'll find that very, very few GWJers steal their games.
My impression was that most people kind of "grow out" of pirating all their software and games after they're done with school. Once people have an income, they'd start buying their software just because it's too annoying to locate and maintain unlicensed stuff anymore. It's kind of time value vs money problem, solved largely by economics rather than morals. If there's any truth to this, then I expect GWJ is probably full of people who rarely (if ever) pirate games.
The downside of buying all your games outright, is when you get screwed. I've bought my share of PC titles that cannot be returned, and felt downright burned afterward. Demos be damned, I never get a good feel for a game from those overblown advertisements. Consoles definitely have an advantage due to game-rental services. I feel like I get a great gaming value on my 360, but I wish I hadn't purchased about half of the PC games I have.
XBL: VeggiePirate | Steam: VeggiePirate | AIM: mthiel2
Well, its good to see that people are owning up to illegitimate IP usage....but probably not too bright to say "I'm a filthy pirate" in a public forum, know what I mean?
One of my friends installed a bootleg copy of the original Quake on my computer way back in the day. Thing is, I had problems with it crashing and such. I finally went out and bought the game and it worked perfectly. My friend could not understand why I would pay for a game I had for free. I just wanted it to work right, and it felt better not having stolen code on my computer.
I have not pirated a single game since then. If I find some reason that I don't feel comfortable spending my money on something, then I do without. It always bothers me when I hear people rationalize their theft by claiming that there wasn't a demo, games are too short, and a host of other reasons. There are valid reasons not to buy the games, but they don't give you a right to steal them.
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I will admit to torrenting a game in the past under one condition - there was no demo.
I pretty much refuse to buy any game I haven't tried.
There are very few exceptions.
The vast majority of games I'm interested in have demos, and I don't buy many games anyway, but I do not play more of a torrent than I would play a demo, I make a decision, and I delete it.
Legally wrong? I'm not sure. I bet Johnny Cochrane or any other good lawyer could make the "I borrowed it from an internet friend" case stick, but I'd rather not find out, which, with the commonness of demos, means I don't do this any more.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
This is one of the reasons why I haven't purchased any PC games in a while.
I spend about half my time on Linux, but on the XP side, I really don't want to spend $50+ for a game that I am not sure will be any good to begin with, nor will even run on my PC.
Which is why the 360 and Gamefly=total win. Between demos, and rentals, I have found some things I didn't know I would even want (Ace Combat 6, Mass Effect, Call of Duty 4), and avoided some costly mistakes (Assassin's Creed, The Darkness, etc.).
I'm okay with purchases at the $60 level if I am going to actually play the thing, not if it gets put on the shelf, or exchanged for credit somewhere.
I'm not pirating anything, let's make that clear. I'm just voting with my feet.
To be honest, I "own" several ROM images (MAME and PinMAME primarily).. So, I'm a pirate.
I love MAME, and have no room or money to buy outdated arcade cabinets, nor can I find arcade cabinets in any arcades, there aren't any more. I've yet to see a Rastan machine or an Addams Family pinball machine that has it's respective controls intact. * I do, however, buy compilation discs of classics and XBLA games that I have MAME'd, because I know what I like, and would pay for many of the titles within reason.
*edited*
XBox Live:MaxShrek ..VexilumCaptus. 'I've made contact with the three American Surrealists: Harpo Marx, Disney, and Cecil B. DeMill'- S.Dali
When I had no money to buy anything I would pirate often.
When I was on a work term and could afford games I would buy them. I have even retroactively bought games I don't play anymore because I played them and enjoyed them pirated.
I think a lot of copy protection harms more legitimate users then it does pirates but I understand the reasons for it. I am a computer Engineer who is about to graduate and is seriously considering getting a job in the games industry, I would be stealing from my own plate in a sense if I supported such behavior.
Even though I proudly wear a pirate bay hoodie, I don't pirate.
Sure, I've got a box of cassettes in my basement dubbed from college friends' CDs, and I've got some backup CDs of DIVX movies in the heady early days of filesharing I should probably get rid of but by and large if I'm not willing to pay for something, I go without.
Now, I'll make exceptions for convenience's sake. If I forget to set the DVR or miss an episode of my favorite show, I'll torrent it. I'll also torrent British TV not available in the US. I also have some mp3 rips of library audiobooks on my drive after I've returned them. (I should probably clean some of this up.) But if I have the opportunity to pay for something, I generally take it.
The reason for this is, in my mind at least, is more a matter of identification than of ethics. I know lots of folks I respect who having carefully considered the consequences, choose to fileshare. Hell, I felt good about it when I did it. But now, I want to identify with the "good guys" in the copyright wars. For me, that means being a responsible user of content. The big dividing line in the content wars is between those who do not want the law to allow any restrictions on the rights of consumer regarding legitimate uses of content and those who want the law to forbid any possible pirating at all costs. There is a trade-off. We cannot stop piracy without infringing on the rights of some legitimate users. We cannot preserve the rights of the user (include fair use, first sale, etc.) without enabling pirates to steal. So I decided I have a choice. I can act as if the RIAA/MPAA are right, and take whatever I have the technological ability to rip or download or I can act as if the Free Culture people are right and be a responsible rights-holder. We all have the ability to steal whatever music, movies, or games we want. We also have the ability to show restraint.
The ethics of the digital marketplace are not firmly set, no matter what the RIAA PSAs tell you. The ability to make unlimited perfect digital copies seriously f*cks with the economics of supply and demand. We simply don't know what this is going to mean and the copyright law as written was designed around Xerox machines, not bittorrent. So while I clearly don't think this means we should just download everything we want, I also don't think we have a moral responsibility to prop up business models founded on obsolete distribution methods. The RIAA/MPAA are clearly wrong, but stealing content doesn't really oppose them. Indeed, it seems to buy into their argument that if content is not locked behind a restrictive DRM wall, it will be valueless. What will make a better system work is people who have the ability to steal content, but choose not to, for their own good reasons.
*Legion* wrote:
Ever since I started making my own money the allure of piracy has just fallen away for me. I love getting a physical copy (more the box than the disc to be honest, easier to put on a shelf and look at nerdfully) and the convenience that legitimate purchasing brings. I'm by no stretch of the imagination rich, but since games are an important hobby to me I can usually scrape up the $60 to buy one game a month. It helps me to appreciate them more as well. In general I never played many of the games I'd pirate, it was more something I'd download because I could, then installed it and played for an hour or so before moving onto something more shiny. Kind of an accumulation. Now a game is an investment and though most games are just a torrent click away (you yungins have it easy with bittorrent, us old timers needed ftp sites and actual personal connections!). I just don't seem to enjoy piracy anymore. In fact, other than the feeling of being master of teh intarwebs, maybe I never really did.
Occasionally
I get the urge to write out
a stupid haiku
Do what you want, "˜cause a pirate is free,
YOU ARE A PIRATE!
Yar har, fiddle di dee,
Being a pirate is alright to be,
Do what you want "˜cause a pirate is free,
YOU ARE A PIRATE!
XBL / Art / Blog / Buy me!
Funny, Starcraft was one of the few games I pirated. Probably the last one I ever pirated too.
That is, unless you count abandonware.
some good comments I've read.
Yes, I am older now and also have to means to actually cough up some money.
Raising 2 kids is costly, but it's still possible.
Comparing the pirating of games to music is understandable. Seems we all agree in general though.
And a very good point is being made about the fact it's all digital. It really is different then holding
something in your hot little hands. The market is huge this way and the overhead so different then
for a product that you physically have to move around the world to bring it to the buyer.
'Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.'
Benjamin Franklin
I've found myself pirating a lot less now that digital distribution is taking off on the PC. My biggest reason for pirating was either the game wasn't economical to try out (Sims 2 after the bajillion expansions for example; I put it down after about a week) or because I owned a legitimate copy but circumstances made pirating easier. This might be I lost the discs, the disc I did have was unusable, or even I just couldn't be arsed to go find the bloody discs in my massive CD spool. These days I don't just have a good paying job but Steam and other download services make disc issues a thing of the past.
Granted I can't loan the game to friends as easily as I can with discs but, frankly, most friends I'd loan games to play consoles anyway so no loss there.
Remember, only by treating everyone with dignity and respect can we maintain the element of surprise for that inevitable day when we wipe our enemies from the face of the Earth.
For clarification, "bnpederson" is pronounced "Brian."
Like most here it seems, I used to pirate when I had little or no money. I'm going back now and buying the games that I enjoyed in pirated forms in earlier years, Starcraft, Warcraft 3 being main examples. Diablo 2 is next on the list (Sorry Blizzard, your games were just too awesome not to own)
When it actually comes to ownership; music, movies or games, I actually really like the artifact. Even if broadband speeds and costs weren't prohibitive here, I would still rather buy a box copy of a game than buy it off Steam. I like DVD's and CD's too, although the first thing I do on purchasing a new album is putting it in the PC and ripping it to my iPod. The CD then gets packed away securely.
kuddles wrote:
For me it's either games I can't find anywhere, like SNES games, and a select few PSX games, or replacements of a CD that got damaged.
Though, recently I've been using them as demos, because it's a fair better judge of playability on my old system. Like I torrented a copy of Fable, and when I saw that it ran, I went out a bought it, and deleted the pirated copy. Same thing with Fate (20$ for a good dungeon crawler? SOLD!)
Though, what's happned with all of the Geneforge series, is I play the demo, confirm I still love the franchise, order it (At which point it's like, 9pm), decide I don't want to wait to see what's past that next screen, find a serial number, plug it in, and I'm still playing when my actual registration number comes in. (At around 9am the next day, usually.) I've done that with a fair chunk of Popcap and Reflexive Arcade games as well. (Read, Crimsonland, Jets 'n Guns, and Ricochet).
I'm not entirely sure if that even counts as piracy. I think I've gotten one thing off of the pirate bay, and that was Planescape: Torment.
Then, there's the other side-issue of multiple copies of one game. I.e, running off another CD of Diablo 2, or UT:GOTY. That I have done a fair few of.
Secret Asian Man wrote:
I don't pirate anything anymore (whether movies, music, games or whatever) but I will admit that about 10 years ago when I was starting in the job market and couldn't afford much of anything, we used to take advantage of EB Games' "return any game within 10 days for any reason" policy by basically buying 2 or 3 PC games on our lunch break, copying them (I worked shipping in a computer store that has one of these new $300 "CD writers" in our bench system) and returning them. Truth be told though, most of the games I copied I ended up not liking and would have returned even if I did intend to buy them legitimately. Today, I do all my research on a title in advance and if it's something I know I want, I will always buy it. If I'm not sure, I'll rent it first but a lot of my rents turn into buys. I am doing a disservice to this industry by not giving them their money for their product. That said, if the industry can also stop putting ridiculous DRM restrictions on the products I buy, causing huge inconvenience to me, the person who gave them money, that'd be awesome too.
"Just because something's popular, that sure doesn't make it right." -Penn Gilette
"You can't fix stupid." -Ron White
blog.digital-lifeline.ca
I tend to stray this area from time to time. I've never owned a system that could even be considered good enough for a mid-grade system compared to whatever was on the market, so buying new PC games without first seeing if they could be run has caused some issues in the past.
For the most part though, I'll just subscribe to an MMO (WoW) and keep myself busy that way. I find the $15/mo is cheaper than buying the amount of new games needed to keep me just as occupied and entertained.
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I'm a pirate. A Puzzle Pirate!
http://www.puzzlepirates.com
XBL Gamertag: Effin Bear | PSN Name: Effin Bear | Steam ID: MechaSlinky | Wii Console Code: 5185 2886 9649 1657
Well I have pirated a LOT of games in the past, especially during kid/college era and still do now. Mainly PSP games since they really need to sell them ALL downloadable to memory stick and not make pirates out of consumers who just want convenience
IMO Both Nintendo and Sony are stealing money from the developers this way more than pirates are since they know that whenever they play the "pirate card" i.e. ease up or even underhandedly promote how easily their systems can be cracked or homebrewed, they move units at the expense of their 3rd parties.
Being Asian it's pretty much in my blood to pirate games and Ive been made fun of in the past for being "white" when I bought games lol. However I have also bought a LOT of games, most at a discount but a substantial few at day 1 prices especially when I felt like supporting the developers. I've noticed that I own a lot more legit games than people who don't pirate or pirate sporadically and this correlates with similarly passionate gamers from this forum and others like CAG. The passion correlation is really important and if it ever becomes a case of DRM or creating passionate fans from them stealing from you, passion wins. I noticed even long before this generation of consoles got big that PC gaming was dropping off/dying and I noticed that many of my friends didn't even care enough to download games anymore. THAT's when I knew there was a problem. When you can get something for free and you don't even bother? it's far better to have a case where people remain passionate and you always have a chance at getting them as a future customer i.e. Sam and Max, Blizzard games that everyone pirated etc than not having them at all and actually have them grow up or move on to other hobbies. Nowadays I will easily buy the console version over torrenting any warezed PC version. Why? PC gaming is garbage and console ports now. DRM, compatibility issues and PC games being geared more towards people who want engines to benchmark their video cards than people who might actually play the game.
And Steam can go to hell. I don't play CS and I don't want their sh*t always loaded and hogging up my system tray kk thx
I was just thinking about this again and I thought about the difference between software and music. Musicians can make money by doing shows, while the alternatives for software writers are more limited.
Back in my college days I would pirate anything. Then again, there were no game shops in my country to speak of, so piracy was the only way to get games. Actually I found out that the games are actually sold officially only when I was thirteen (i.e. after 7 years of gaming on various platforms). Until then, I considered the piracy thing normal.
Of course, ever since then I longed for original games - boxes, original discs, manuals, you name it. The very first one I bought was Syndicate, I picked it up during my stay in Great Britain in 1994 when I was sixteen. Ever since then I'm making an effort to get every game I liked (or wanted to play but was never able to get) legally. They are for peanuts currently on eBay and make great collector's items.
I also have a great stack of DS, GBA, PS1 and PS2 games. The only thing I really pirate are SNES games (and American PS1 games), because I never had a SNES. Still, I at least buy the GBA and PS1 remakes of the games I like whenever possible.
Also, if you don't like buying new PC games for high prices, just wait a bit and pick them up later, their prices drop very fast. Some games you're not willing to spend 50 dollars, but for 10 bucks they are worth a try.
You can't take the sky from me.
I don't pirate. I take a pretty simplistic view towards pirating...If I'm playing the game, I should pay the people who created it. That pay may be via Gamespy, Gametap, the local library, the bargain bin, Steam, etc...doesn't matter. If they're after too much for the game, I just move on for now...it'll be $20 cheaper soon enough.
Typically I don't buy at anywhere near full price unless I'm confident I'll get value-for-money - Orange Box, I'm looking at you - I buy secondhand, on-offer, etc. I prefer to try before buying too - that way, my shelf doesn't get filled up with too many games I don't want to play. Demos and recommendations have made most of my recent purchases.
*Legion* wrote:
By the way, buying second hand or used later still doesnt help the developers, even if it does appease your guilt or make it "official" for you many years later. In reality, even buying at a discount price really doesn't help the developers that much i.e. greatest hits price due to a messed up economics/broken business model. If you really want to support developers, buy at a Day 1 or at full price.
It is for this reason that I really think games need to come down to $20-30 because thats when a lot of us take the plunge especially since we know it happens quickly. Since we are gamers with jobs, we really win as by the time we have the time to play anything anyway its already discounted
but again it doesnt really help developers. For me its the time when it is $20-30 when all sins are forgiven and just about anything can be made to look attractive to me lol. Does that include women? weeeeeeeellllll... ROFL
I will pirate a game if I already own it but the cd is scratched or some such, and I already have a legit cdkey. (Maybe I would do it if I just had legit cdkeys without buying the game, but probably not.)
Your friendly neighbourhood hair splitting singularity.
Aperture scientist is my alter ego.
If you have a valid license for the game, then you're not pirating it.
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QFT!
It also isn't pirating if you use a nocd crack to play a game whose media you purchased. These are clear distinctions that folks should make. The RIAA/MPAA would like to toss everyone who makes "unauthorized" copies or circumvents DRM/TPM into the same camp. I think that's horsesh*t. While I do agree that if a shared digital copy replaces a sale, stealing has occurred, legitimate owners have fair use rights to the content they purchased.
*Legion* wrote:
When pirating is easier than buying games, I pirate. Dreamcast for example where no tools were needed other than a CD burner to produce a working copy of a game to play and more recently with PSP. Even when pirating I will still buy a copy of the games I have fun with. I specifically remember playing all the way through a pirated copy of MGS3 and then buying a copy the next day because I loved it so much (and then re-buying it again when Subsistence came out.) Amazing games really do deserve what little money they cost and I am glad to pony up for them. I don't however bat an eyelash when choosing not to buy games when I don't feel like they actually deserve it. It does come to the point when pirating is so easy that I may have 50+ games and only own a tenth of those.
I'm more of a sausage smoker myself. - Yoyoson
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I think this is a valid discussion to have, especially in the gaming community. However, I'd like to remind everyone that plenty of developers read these threads and I don't want to see anyone getting too cavalier about their game pirating habits. The last thing you're going to want is to be labeled "pirate" every time you talk about a game.
Absolutely no links or information on attaining stolen games are allowed.
Certis beat me to it. - Elysium
We've all read the CoC Certis.
Remember, only by treating everyone with dignity and respect can we maintain the element of surprise for that inevitable day when we wipe our enemies from the face of the Earth.
For clarification, "bnpederson" is pronounced "Brian."