LSAT Advice
Tuesday, January 29th, 2008 - 5:28pm
On Saturday I'm taking the LSATs for the first time and I was wondering if anybody here had taken the test before.
I've been doing the usual prep of taking practice tests and working with a study guide. But as I read my LSAT "ticket" it has all kinds of weird little rules and restrictions. Such as having my wallet placed inside of a clear ziplock bag and getting fingerprinted at the door.
So does anybody have any tips/advice that they wish somebody had told them before they took the LSATs? Thanks.
Certis wrote:
We need more gizzleflops for the nubenhagan.
AOC: Jozak - Conqueror on Wiccana
XBL: elliottxW



Just the usual stuff. Don't party the night before, take it easy, get a good night's rest. Try to arrive with a clear mind and stay calm.
Since you've already prepped, you should do fine. It's no different from any other standardized test.
Except that they can behead you at any time without warning.
Your Quote Here!
I took the LSAT -- basically, the best you can do is simply be rested and ready. Don't let that crazy fingerprinting and restriction stuff scare you -- its just to check to make sure that you are who they think you are.
As for the test, don't concern yourself with finishing the test, especially if you're a chronic finisher (I am). Most of the sections I never managed to get through in the time allotted, which just has to be done on purpose and the entire test is basically a bunch of logic puzzles crammed together that you have to work through -- something you already know if you've done the study preps.
Of course, this was 6 years ago, so they may have changed the test since then. By the way, I did very well on the test for not finishing it and I am a very good test-taker. I felt absolutely drained when I completed the LSAT in a way I didn't feel for the SAT, ACT, or GRE.
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
The advice about not worrying about finishing sections is good. I didn't finish the analytical section and still did extremely well overall. More test security has been added since I took it, so that's new, but would just be cumbersome.
One thing about prepping for athletic events might apply here: it's not so big a deal if you don't get a good night's sleep the night before the test as long as you're well rested for the few days prior to that. This doesn't apply to hangovers, however.
Don't sweat it too much; second-guessing and freakouts never help.
Do you still have your soul? If so, you need to sell that, ASAP.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Remember that being a lawyer pretty much sucks anyway. This will relax you.
You can't make somebody love you, but you can buy a bigger television.
Are you taking this just to see how you'll do, or are you seriously considering going to law school somewhere?
I never minded piracy. Anyone who minds about piracy is full of sh*t. Anyone who pirates your game wasn't going to buy it anyway! -Warren Spector
We all know that there is no quicker way to empty a joke of its peculiar magic than to try to explain it -- to point out, for example, that Lou Costello is mistaking the proper name "Who" for the interrogative pronoun "who," etc. - D.F.Wallace
I'd say considering. Law school is actually a fall back plan for me. That is unless I absolutely smoke the LSAT, at which point it becomes my top priority and I spend the next year of my life getting prepared to relocate some place far away. Since I understand that becoming a lawyer would effectively destroy my soul, I'm going to go for broke with it.
If I can't get into a top tier law school with my LSATs then I hope Plan A works out. If I can't get into a top tier law school and Plan A also fails, then I go to Plan C. Plan C is I continue my programming job and I go to night school at Lewis & Clark law school for the next 4 years.
Also I know my Plan lettering is off but it works in my head. If you can follow: Plan A is what I really want to happen but if I actually do really well on my LSAT then Plan B(going to a top tier law school) has to happen as otherwise I'd beat myself up for the rest of my life for wasting my soulless potential.
So um yeah, that is my simplified answer to your question
Certis wrote:
AOC: Jozak - Conqueror on Wiccana
XBL: elliottxW
Any chance of finding out what Plan A is?
Fletcher wrote:
Yeah I was wondering about why I didn't just say what Plan A is. But the more I keep thinking about it, the more I realize that it's silly that I feel embarrassed if I failed.
Plan A is become a special agent in the FBI. I'm pretty far into the process. But there's just so many places I could still get cut even though I've made it through the biggest cuts. I mean I could be a month away from going to Quantico and then I could somehow discover that my heart is a little too weak or that I've never seen the color green or I have a crazy ex-girlfriend who makes up stuff about me.
I guess it's just that I've been involved with the process for 6 months now and if I failed, I'd feel like a fool for having talked about the FBI so much.
Certis wrote:
AOC: Jozak - Conqueror on Wiccana
XBL: elliottxW
I never minded piracy. Anyone who minds about piracy is full of sh*t. Anyone who pirates your game wasn't going to buy it anyway! -Warren Spector
I took the LSAT because I was thinking about alternatives to my Ph.D. program (in a pretty non-lucrative humanities field). Because I hadn't definitely decided on law school, the pressure was off when I took the test, and let me tell you, when you saw the number of people the morning of the test who obviously stayed up all night/puked their guts out due to nerves, I was really glad I wasn't depending on my LSAT score to determine my future.
At any rate, I DID do very well on the LSAT (above 99th percentile), so that made me think harder about law school. I realized I didn't want to go unless I could go to a top-tier school. On the other hand, scholarships and grants for any professional school are pretty few and far in between, and I realized I didn't want a huge debt that would tie me to some crazy 80hr/week associate position. Lawyers are always in the office...I didn't want to live my life like that. I ended up finishing my Ph.D. and I'm now in a job where I have lots to do, but also lots of flexibility as to when and where I do it. Much better. Don't get a law degree unless you know what sort of life you'd be buying into.
*This is important advice.* I have a J.D... and don't want to use it, so I'm one of those underemployed J.D.'s out there. The more time I spent in law school, the less I wanted to be a lawyer, with the hours and the work. I *didn't* know what sort of life I was buying into before I was so far along that there was nothing to do but finish, with the requisite load of debt and grey hairs. The only fortunate thing to come of my experience was, besides for the wisdom to know better, that a J.D. does afford you the opportunity to understand how the law functions, which is important knowledge in a whole host of fields.
About the LSAT, just what others have said. Try to be relaxed, get good sleep, eat a decent breakfast. Also, if you don't know where you test site is, go find it this week ahead of time, so you're not frazzled looking for it the day of the test. Don't stress about all the fingerprinting crap. Just do what the directions tell you to and you'll be fine.
I'm a 1L right now. Make sure to read the rules - things have changed this year. No electronic timers. Don't get tossed for something trite. Don't try to guess the experimental section, just go with the flow. There is going to be a lot of downtime at the start during the administrative stuff - don't get frazzled. Keep breathing, think happy thoughts, and attack the sh*t out of it. Remember, law schools take your highest score now, so there isn't as much pressure these days. You're going to do fine. Good luck in law school!
I'd like to second the notion that a JD isn't a great fall back plan. There is a severe debt to income ratio that may be absolutely punishing as the economy slides. Legal services are in many ways discretionary, which has a pretty large blow back in the industry. When it comes time to make decisions, feel free to PM me to discuss further. I'm assuming since you're taking the Feb exam, you're looking at next cycle.
Any other lawyer types in the heezie?
Gamertag: PKSebben
Xfire: dramarent
Well, I suppose I should take this advice to heart, with the whole wanting to become a lawyer after saving up some money doing Mechanical Engineering.
*Legion* wrote:
I never minded piracy. Anyone who minds about piracy is full of sh*t. Anyone who pirates your game wasn't going to buy it anyway! -Warren Spector
Some people make poor decisions about law school. I go to a pretty highly ranked state school that isn't going to bankrupt me for the rest of my life. I might be morally bankrupt, but at least I'll be able to pay my loans.
Just make sure you do your research before you slap down your seat deposits.
Some of the lower-ranked law schools use dubious methods to screw people out of scholarship money, inflate employment placement data, and skew salary medians. Add that to the 30-40k per year some pay for these schools, and it's just downright criminal.
I also agree that patent law can be super lucrative. I'd suggest knocking out the patent bar before law school.
Edit: Style stuff.
Gamertag: PKSebben
Xfire: dramarent
I saved my money for grad school by taking the money and going to a state school for free. I plan on just taking this by feel, but patent law is the goal for now.
*Legion* wrote:
Not necessarily. With the engineering undergrad you can do patent work, which pays a lot of dough and is a highly sought after specialty. You have leverage as a patent lawyer and can do a better job of negotiating good working conditions. I find the work boring as sh*t and could never do it but if you have an engineering brain you might enjoy it. Pretty much none of the rules about competitive job markets apply to people who have passed the patent bar.
Ten years out of law school, I don't know anyone who is truly HAPPY at their lawyer job. The closest I've found are people who've convinced themselves that it's impossible to have a job that makes you happy (which I reject entirely) and that the best you can do is be content. This is maybe with the exception of hyper competitive guys who were picked on in junior high and never got over it and just like to attack everyone they see. But even those people aren't happy, I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt because I think for the emotional spectrum they're capable of (asshole to slightly more tolerable asshole), they're doing okay for themselves.
Another thing to look out for is that even if you like the job, everyone around you in the firm more than two years out of school is probably depressed and compensating in all the classic ways: being an asshole, drinking too much, adultery, all of that, which makes for unpleasant work environments.
At a poker game last year, something like 8 of the 12 lawyers at the game said they wouldn't go through law school if they could do it over. I left active practice last fall for a different sort of law-related job and can happily state that my day-to-day mood is now better than it's been since 1997. I really thought I had lost the capacity to enjoy life like I do now.
So think about all that before you get your score back and found you did really well.
Have you thought about going into the FBI and then seeing if you can get tuition reimbursement for law school? Not sure if such a program exists. Also JAG Corps is a good way to get free school and early courtroom experience.
You can't make somebody love you, but you can buy a bigger television.
So your saying I'm like some kind of uber-person.....awesome.
This sounds enjoyable.
*Legion* wrote:
I took the LSAT back in 1996. I got a 154, which put me around the 75th percentile of the time. Not too shabby, but just close enough for a wide gap. A friend got a 161 and he leaped to the 91st percentile.
Bring a candy bar or something to much on during breaks, like a snickers bar. The key to remember in the essay portion is issue spotting and that you present fair arguments for both sides/options. My stupid essay question was about whether to replace an antiquated heating system in an fixer-upper hotel. Lame.
With the logic questions, (e.g., Mike needs to sit next to Sally, but can't sit next to Jane), I hope you've been doing practice questions becuase practice questions are key! Just like for the Bar exam eventually. With logic, it's all about knowing which picture you have to draw in order to help you answer the question. If you've done practice questions, then you'll quickly be able to say to yourself, "oh, this is the concentric circle question," or "this is the double triangle question." Draw the picture, and quickly answer the question.
Good luck!
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You're talking about the Bar exam - I think he's taking the application test. I'll save that info for two years when I have to face the dreaded barzam!
Also, Stiffs and Gifts... classic!
This scares the beejesus out me. Even after my first semester in law school, I detest many of my classmates. They're hyper-competitive weasels who would shank their own mother to up themselves on the curve. I've met some people with perspective, but it's pretty much an insane asylum of type A over-achievers all crammed in a pressure-soaked situation and set on "liquefy."
I'm hoping to chill in the ivory tower or a advocacy group for the duration. 2800 billable hours a month would kill me. I don't care how much they'd pay me.
Gamertag: PKSebben
Xfire: dramarent
You're right. Oops! I edited my advice.
But I saved my answer in a text file for him 4 years down the road. 
Oh, and Elliottx, being a lawyer doesn't have to destroy your soul. I've been in public service for 7 years and the soul is intact! (2 years as a judical clerk and 5 as a prosecutor). The new loan forgivess laws passed by congress make goverment service a much more viable long-term option these days.
Also, looking back, I shouldn't have fretted so much about which school I went to. I went to a private school, DePaul College of Law in Chicago, and it was pricey. At the time, I turned my nose up at what I thought was a "lesser" school (Northern Illinois University) becuase the law school had only been in existence for about 25 years at the time. I realized at the end of my third year that what really matters is to get into a program and kick ass. Smart employers will look at the top ranked students at all schools.
I entered DePaul interested in alternative dispute resolution, and left wanting to be a prosecutor. I spent 18 months (summer after 2d year and all of my 3d year) volunteering with the Cook County arson prosecutions unit and I loved it. I was also involved in the moot court society my second and third year and that made law school a lot of fun (hanging out in the moot court office). We networked all 4 of the computers in the office at the time and regularly had Age of Kings battles when we should have been at anti-trust law class!
Xbox Live: JediJurist
Wii: 0973 6525 9083 7326
PSN: JediJurist
Don't let the bureaucratic pettiness of the proctors bother you--I remember getting yelled at for having brought earplugs (you can't use them, apparently). Like Draco said above, if you do any more practice between now and then, make it the logic games--pretty much get every type down if you do enough practice, and practice makes perfect. Also, don't freak out if you run across a logic section that is completely unlike anything you've seen in practice--that means it's probably the test section that won't count anyway.
Other than that, don't get too stressed between now and then, it's not like you can actually learn how to think critically if you don't already know how.
As for all the sucks-to-be-a-lawyer talk, big firms definitely chew up and spit out a lot of folks--but a surprisingly high percentage (unsurprisingly, though, I don't remember it) of those with J.D.s don't actually practice law in the classic sense, but a legal education and that degree can be really advantageous, and worth the effort.
I notice you're in St. Pete, Mookie. You go to law school in our great state?
Gamertag: PKSebben
Xfire: dramarent
Let me qualify. I don't know anyone working in a law firm who is truly happy. I worked for a judge for a while and that was fun but doesn't lead anywhere except a firm. I don't know much about prosecuting but Draco likes it. I know many lawyers who spent some time at a firm, moved on to other things, and are now happy, me included, and I couldn't have gotten my present job without a law degree. So don't be scared, just acknowledge that the first few years out of school might be tough and if you're miserable it might take some serious effort to address the situation. Fortunately, the more miserable you are, the more serious an effort you'll be willing to make.
You can't make somebody love you, but you can buy a bigger television.
Indeed I do (I graduate in December), at the lousy but expensive Stetson--I would've gone to UF, but I would've had to live in Gainesville while my wife stayed here and worked. The more I think about it, I should have, though...how about you?
Was Chemerinsky there while you were there?
Gamertag: PKSebben
Xfire: dramarent
UF.
If you're into Halo, we do law students from around the country big team battle - you should join in and eff up some Harvard kids! How about them apples!
Gamertag: PKSebben
Xfire: dramarent
As an aside, a friend of mine scored in the 0th percentile. I think it takes an impressive guy to score in the 0th percentile (I don't even know how to pronounce 0th) and be willing to discuss it.
You can't make somebody love you, but you can buy a bigger television.