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Monday, January 21st, 2008 - 3:12am
With us continuing to work through content we may want to look into WWS. I know it has been mentioned before and I came across this in my travels.
Let me know what you think.
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The cool thing about WWS is that you really only need one person with everything configured properly to get data. If you're running recount, then you already have the combat log settings correct; it does all that for you. Beyond that, you'll need to start a text combat log with the /combatlog command before any boss fight. Once that's done, turn it off when the boss is down, and upload that file to WWS and they'll crunch it through.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote:
I would support using this on boss fights post Kara. Are you suggesting that you would be willing to figure it all out and get it working Hanta?
My guild has made extensive use of WWS. We usually have at least one person recording in any raid and I am usually the person getting the logs onto the server. I will say that having more people log, with good logging mods, can help with accuracy.
As for the data you're going to get, WWS can be the best thing in the world for people to find out what they are doing wrong or could be doing better. If you have defensive people who can't stand having their performance analyzed, it's going to bring that out in the open, too. WWS isn't going to help show if your tanks are generating enough threat (though you can easily see the secondary effects). It's also not super easy to judge healing between two or three healers, someone always seems to be "on top" and the other two are filling in the holes. But, for DPS (which TBC Raiding is ALL about) WWS is the way to go for looking at performance post-raid.
If you are taking raiding seriously at any level, WWS is the way to go.
-Bad Mojo
And man that dog looks like he's having a good time, but that monkey is f*cking into it. This isn't his recreation; this is his life and he knows it in a way I will never know anything. --Danjo Olivaw
I think this is a great idea Hanta. While I know something like this is going to step on some toes, what it boils down to is that if as a guild we are going to get beyond Kara with occassional ZA runs we will need to look into things like this.
*Bandolique (70 Combat Rogue)
*Amara (70 Fire Mage)
*Zeus the Good Luck Dog making the Lords of Kara/SSC/TK cry whenever he is around
As long as this isn't used as a *club* I'd like to see the information this can pull together. I know Lique and I have both been tweaking our builds to up our dps and this can be a great tool to see how effective that type of modification can be. That being said, the reason I say it shouldn't be a club is that there are situations where dps characters are using special skills in order to prevent damage or spell/stun locking targets, which can send some stats tumbling down.
Of course as a numbers geek, let the crunching begin...
GWJ Alliance on Blackhand
Lunazul - Rouge & GWJ Paparazzo
Merdee - Hunter
Lunarel - Druid
If I remember right class v. boss mechanics are taken into account. So it expects say rogue dps number to be lower on Aran as say Maiden or Curator. I think the biggest assest this would be to everyone is to take some of the guess work out of "Am I ready for Gruul's?", etc. As we all know gear is only half the story and if say in a weeks worth of raiding we see that one or two (using Luna's and my class as an example) rogues are dramatically behind the rest (200+dps) we can offer more constructive advise beyond "Well replace this and see what happens" especially now that the majority of our raiding rogues are pretty similar gear wise. This should never be used as a dps race as we should all be playing smarter not harder at this point. As I was saying post raid last night, meters should never be used as a "Look I am better than you" ego boost. They are merely a tool to see how YOU are doing and if YOU are hitting the recommended numbers to progress beyond the 10man raid world. WWS would just be a bigger broader picture to help individual players improve as we move into harder and harder content.
*Bandolique (70 Combat Rogue)
*Amara (70 Fire Mage)
*Zeus the Good Luck Dog making the Lords of Kara/SSC/TK cry whenever he is around
The idea behind WWS isn't to create a clique, but to show exactly where people are at. With the info that WWS can provide, people can look at their gear, and their spec, and see what they can do to get to where they need to be.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote:
I haven't seen Shank's DPS fluxuate dramatically in raids. Running boss fights are tough for melee DPS but it doesn't hurt me too bad and most trash pulls are simple DPS burns with the occasional stun thrown in.
And remember, the Japanese aren't commercially whaling. They're conducting "research". Like "researching how delicious this whale is". - Paleocon
I'm pretty sure she meant "club" as in "a heavy, blunt weapon used to pound someone into the ground" vs. "social interaction".
That which does not kill you, still hurts like Hell. - Anonymous Soldier
None of us is as dumb as ALL of us. - Anonymous Staff Officer
Veni, Vici, Ridebam, Discedebam - "I came, I saw, I laughed, I left"
Oh, well if that's the case, then yes, it could very likely wind up being used as a large, heavy blunt object to knock off leeches.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote:
Not sure how any guild can progress without running WWS after every raid... how would you know where problems are?
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
http://wumusicgroup.com/
So far, we've used the criteria of "living vs. dieing" and "succeeding vs. failing". It seems to have worked for us.
That which does not kill you, still hurts like Hell. - Anonymous Soldier
None of us is as dumb as ALL of us. - Anonymous Staff Officer
Veni, Vici, Ridebam, Discedebam - "I came, I saw, I laughed, I left"
You only say that because you are not on top.
Most good raiding guilds use WWS. It helps to expose areas for improvement, and as long as everyone will be receptive to feedback it is great idea for you raiding guys.
For instance.. our Lady Vashj tries using WWS we saw that not enough DPS was getting to the Striders.. and to much on Elementals and Nagas.. makes adjusting strategies hella easier.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
http://wumusicgroup.com/
You already convinced me it's a good idea...but I wouldn't be me if I passed up an obvious joke.
That which does not kill you, still hurts like Hell. - Anonymous Soldier
None of us is as dumb as ALL of us. - Anonymous Staff Officer
Veni, Vici, Ridebam, Discedebam - "I came, I saw, I laughed, I left"
I would encourage the use of this tool for ALL 10-man+ content. This would give each and every toon on raid something to work on. It breaks down overall DPS on each shots/spell....so a rotation modification could be made. The whole reason why we would use this is for each of us to IMPROVE on our technique, choice of attacks, or even spec. Yes I did say the 4-letter word spec!!!!
Ahhh....so happy to live in the land of being famous for the most polluted lake in the country and the best hot dogs. Are these 2 related....GOD I hope not
So who's going to be running it?
WoW Blackhand Alliance
70s: Nukanatrix (M), Braun (P), Boreali (Warrior)
Erissar - 67 Druid
Grumbar - 65 Hunter
Jergen - 64 Paladin
Heckfire - 62 Warlock
Ideally you'd want to have several classes running it. Melee and ranged dps can merge their logs to get a very accurate portrayal of what's going on.
I'm all for it.
Quote:
- Legion, taking "keeping it in the family" to a whole new level.
Xbox Live: Fedaykin98
The good news is, there's no mod to run right now. You can just install a logging mod like clsaver. Clsaver lets you set the combat log range to max and automatically start and stop logging when you enter or leave an instance. You might not think it so important, but I have had to weed through tons of people I didn't know because someone kept logging in front of Karazhan when a bunch of PvP is going on. Makes crunching the logs harder.
-Bad Mojo
And man that dog looks like he's having a good time, but that monkey is f*cking into it. This isn't his recreation; this is his life and he knows it in a way I will never know anything. --Danjo Olivaw
Also, make sure you set your max range to 200. This will allow you to get most of the ranged info from every fight.
Not sure which mod did this (I'm guessing Recount or Omen), but when I checked my config file last night, I found that the range entries had already been set to 200 as is suggested by WWS.
GWJ Alliance on Blackhand
Lunazul - Rouge & GWJ Paparazzo
Merdee - Hunter
Lunarel - Druid
Most combat log mods, Recount included, do this. At that point, it's a matter of turning on combat logging(/combatlog) and turning it off(same command).
I'd like to add that you're all dirty skimmers, since I posted these answers in the second post of the thread.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote: