Insider talks about RROD failures
http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_inside_source_reveal_the_truth...
This is the first really credible sounding analysis and discussion of the problem that I've read.
I thought that after the debacle, they would have gotten their testing and manufacturing processes fixed for the subsequent hardware revisions. It sounds like it is still a work in progress though.
Also of note is the comment about all three of the majors working on their next-gen systems. I think at least a couple of the companies have already let this slip though their job postings. In the spirit of some of the other 2008 predictions, I'll take a crack at the likely system specs for the next gen xbox. Essentially, it'll be an evolutionary upgrade of the 360 architecture, not a radical break with the current design:
-Similar CPU architecture, but with somewhere between 8-16 processor cores. The cores will be essentially the same as the 360's CPU cores, maybe running slightly faster and with a few extra functions. It will probably be backward compatible with the 360 with only a minimal emulation layer.
-Similar GPU, but with enough pipelines and fill rate for a few more rendering passes at 1080p. Despite the efforts of some display makers, there won't be any market for television displays with resolutions above 1080p. There may be provision for supporting 3D displays, but I don't know that the technology is there yet or that Microsoft has the vision to pursue it.
-1 Gigabyte RAM.
-Hard drive of some sort, solid state disks still aren't going to be cheap enough in 2010 or 2011.
-A Blu Ray optical drive, digital distribution will still take too much bandwith for them to abandon physical media, Blu Ray drives will be cheap and a compelling value added.
-Some sort of motion controller, maybe driven by a hi-res camera instead of accelerometers.
-DVR, media center, cable set top box functionality.


Interesting, and pretty much what I thought: rush to market, poor design, insufficient testing and arrogance.
I still love my 360 tho....
So it was pretty much done like anything else these days, ship out fast and use the customer's as beta testers.
And agree that the the next step for the xbox will be evolutionary although i think it will be more in the lines of 4 Gb of RAM, I just hope they include wireless
.
and finally.
Hi everyone
It's pretty much what we thought but I really wished they never rushed it to the market, because even when their next system is released I will probably buy it but I have no faith in MS quality control
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Mex refering to Actresses:
Make no mistake, I'd hit them all so hard that my pelvis would have to be classified as a deadly weapon, I just don't think they're all
Good read.
Definitely an interesting read. I've been wondering lately whether MS really has managed to fix the problems, and it occurred to me that we haven't seen any "system killer" games in the last few months. There were a few stories around the launches of BioShock and Halo 3, but I haven't heard any reports of games like COD4 or Mass Effect "killing" 360s. Of course, we all know it was just shoddy hardware all along, so people should know better than to write a "COD4 causes red rings" report as if the game itself is in some way to blame, but I'd still like to think that it's a sign that the worst of the 360's problems really are behind it.
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There was a Guitar Hero II patch that RedOctane confirmed to have caused firmware failures on some 360s and a significant number of people did have their systems fail upon first inserting Chromehounds when it launched. Anyone who mentioned those problem at the time was called a fear monger but they did exist.
"Just because something's popular, that sure doesn't make it right." -Penn Gilette
"You can't fix stupid." -Ron White
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I'll take that crack and raise you:
- Intel/AMD X86 processors will be used in further convergence of PC/console harware
- The chipsets used will be a complete solution based around the two companies 'integrated' CPU/GPU systems to bring down costs.... if they go the Intel route it's possible that Nvidia will provide the GPU rather than Intel's weaker GPU architectures
- There will be 2-4 main cores that execute out of order code and another 4-6 minor cores that execute in order code in the same way that the SPUs work on the cell.
- There will be a maximum of 1 GB of ram shared between the processors/GPU (though there will be little difference between them anyway) - probably shipping with 512-768 MB
- The box will not be backward compatible (too much hassle for them to bother)
- Internal and changeable HDD (like the PS3) but shipping with 40-60 GB basic model.
- I agree on the 1080p - there's no need to go higher and by 2010-2012 most of the population in EU/US still won't have TVs capable of this resolution anyway.
- I'm predicting a launch date of September-November 2011 in the US, followed by late December availability in EU in limited numbers. Can't predict Japan's allocation.
- No integrated Blu-Ray optical device as graphics won't look that much better than the best current 360 games - much like PC equivalent - there will be a Blu-Ray peripheral out by late 2009 that will be forwards compatible (USB) with the next Xbox if Blu-ray does win the format war. The price still won't be down to sub-£20 for Blu-Ray players.
- Not sure about that motion controller but you'd need at least 2 hi-res cameras with something to focus on (like motion capture reflective spots) to get accurate enough 3-D information without accelerometers - kinda like the sensor bar with a standard ratio between the two cameras.
- If they do include motion control it will be a side-project and not the main focus of the console like it is for the Wii. There will still be a main controller like the one we're used to but perhaps the motion controller will be something you can buy like the Eye-toy or a dance pad for specific (read: Family oriented) games.
- "-DVR, media center, cable set top box functionality." is a given.
- The console won't ship for more than around £299 and they will try and keep that cost as low as possible (including the manufacturing cost/selling price ratio)
Wacky ideas:
- There may be a DVD writer included in the console rather than just a reader. The purpose of this is for users to download full games over LIVE! and burn them to (MS-endorsed) DVDs with standard (current) console DVD DRM. They will be playable in any console (not just the one that downloaded it) but it is an extra/concentrated revenue stream for MS as a publisher to cut out retail reselling as people wouldn't want to buy cheap-looking burned DVDs. Retail versions of games will also be available but will be $10-20 more expensive.
What do you think?
Of - power - insessantly
Plagued - by - malefisense
Doomed - to - insidious -
Death - is - he - who - breaks
this - monument - i - prophesy
I'm finding the RRoD stuff more funny than annoying. The meltdowns in varying degrees were entertaining, when mine finally went, I think if there was an annoying part was being on hold with Microsoft's customer cervix.
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wait the industry expert former insider at Microsoft actually said "LOL"
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
http://wumusicgroup.com/
hey. lol. kk.
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-One of the lessons of the original Xbox is that Microsoft needed to own the intellectual property to keep driving costs down. For this reason, they'll continue to use a fully licenced design rather than another company's off-the-shelf chip. IBM will probably tweak their G4 or G5 core to make it a little faster and more efficient, but I bet it will be similar enough that code will be fully backward compatible.
-We probably have a difference in perspective on the merits of the PS3 cell chip. It makes sense as an evolutionary outgrowth of the PS2 chipset, with the SPE's taking on the same graphics rendering tasks as the PS2's "Emotion Engine." And, if Microsoft weren't out there as a competitor, it might be a good design. However, Sony's vision for the future didn't take into account the tremedous progress made by nVidia and ATI in developing graphics processors. From what I've read, the PS3 wasn't supposed to have a separate GPU. The SPEs were supposed to act like more flexible versions of a GPU's rendering pipelines. But, somewhere towards the middle of the PS3's development, Sony realized that their graphics performance wasn't competitive against current CPU/GPU combos. So they shoehorned in the nVidia GPU, leading to the PS3's bifurcated design, with hard limitations between the Cell and the GPU's respective memory pools and little guidance to developers on exactly what they should be doing with the Cell's asymmetric number crunching units.
-I don't think that it is out of the realm of possibility that the next Xbox will have some Cell-like secondary number crunchers, but it seems unlikely. In the 360 CPU, IBM tweaked their CPU core design with some extra vector processing commands. For the next generation they may enhance these functions, but I doubt they'll implement Cell-like asymmetric secondary processing cores. Despite the catastrophic implementation, the 360's architecture seems much more well thought out and forward looking than the PS3's. That's why I think that the next xbox will look a lot like the 360, just with more core processors and rendering pipelines. Also, that sort of design would make things very easy on the developer community, and Microsoft has recognized the competitive advantage of making things easy for developers.
-The 2011 launch date sounds about right. I wouldn't be surprised to see a dual camera/reflective motion capture wand input device, in addition to a standard controller. The DVD burner idea is really interesting and makes a lot of sense, but I don't think it'll happen because it is one of those features that will get trimmed to keep the costs down.
Wasn't LOL recently added to one of the major dictionaries, therefore making it part of commonly accepted language?
"Just because something's popular, that sure doesn't make it right." -Penn Gilette
"You can't fix stupid." -Ron White
blog.digital-lifeline.ca
I think that was actually "w00t."
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baggachipz: Who cares about Japan, let them have their silly pointless dog games and countless re-hashes of anime-based dragon princess super lucky crapitty crap.
He probably laughed out loud and the guy just transcribed it as such.
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Actually, at the top of the article, the writer added an update that said the interview was conducted via e-mail.
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Okay maybe i was a bit unclear on the SPE/Cell comparison. I didn't mean implementing Cell-like architecture, i was talking about the (supposed) specs of the intel CPU/GPU combination that will have a daughter chip along side a main processing chip. (In other words the combination of CPU and GPU into a single chipset)
The SPE comment was meant as a direction as to the smaller daughter chip's overall power and status in the system... i.e. being in order only as opposed to out of order. The OoO chip (dual/quad whatever) would be the main processor for complex stuff while the IO chips (sorry for stepping on the naming convention with my shortening) would be used to calculate things like physics and complex math instructions that need raw processing power dedicated to them.
It's possible that Intel could lisence a proprietary version of this tech (slated for 2010) to MS in the same way that IBM have for the gaming companies in recent generations.
In the same way that AMD will have low-end integrated CPU/GPU combinations that could possibly (probably?) be more powerful than Intel stuff due to their graphical expertise but even so these implementations will have a similar structure to them.
I agree that we won't see Cell/SPU-like implementation in future generations of MS's consoles (not even the next PS IMO) as it makes no sense.
The DVD-burner aspect was just a wacky idea that i thought would be cool and would bring in more money to MS directly (online distribution of full retail games is the only thing that they're lacking at the moment)... and you mention cost, but a cheap DVD-burner will be much cheaper than integrating a cheap Blu-ray drive.
Of - power - insessantly
Plagued - by - malefisense
Doomed - to - insidious -
Death - is - he - who - breaks
this - monument - i - prophesy