Talk about a bad hospital visit...
Thursday, January 17th, 2008 - 1:55am
If this is true then I will never visit a hospital for a bump on the head again. EVER.
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That's very odd. I've recently read something about doctors recommending unneeded tests. In order to make money I supose. I'll try and find a link.
No kidding. That test sounds completely unrelated to the actual injury.
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Nope. Finger-->Butt. Seriously.
http://classes.kumc.edu/son/nurs420/unit8/trauma_survey.htm
Right in the Primary Survey under Disability.
He should consider himself lucky. I usually have to pay $200 under the table to get the doctor to do one of those.
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Don't have time now, but man do I have a doozy of one to tell. Appendicitis in a foreign country.
Robear and Kiri know the details.
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The frightening thing isn't that they wanted to give him a test that appeared unrelated to the injury, but that they drugged him in order to perform it and then restrained him afterwards. It's so wildly out there that it strains credulousness in my view.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
I'm not a doctor, but the article said the test was relevant and so did the link Joe posted. Sounds like to me theres an off chance it might have been relevant
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I have bumped my head good and hard many a time, but have never had anyone try to do anything but fix the gaping wounds on the aforementioned melon.
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Right, which is why I said that wasn't the frightening part.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
Sounds like he entered the hospital with Martin Riggs. Perhaps he was annoying and had it coming?
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Damn near killed 'um.
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Last time I checked, people have the right to refuse medical procedures. The man was obviously conscious and able to make decisions at the time, therefore until the hospital managed to get his consent, putting anything up his bunghole is assault at the best. Add that he was drugged & restrained, I'd say rape could easily be on the table, even if the purpose was to assess a possible medical condition. No means No...
Makes me wonder if there were over eager interns involved...
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Funkenpants wrote:
Sure, people have a right to refuse medical procedures and leave the ER or hospital on their own accord. It can be documented as leaving Against Medical Advice (AMA). But, not knowing any more about the case, here you have a guy with a potential closed head injury, which can potentially impair thinking. One can imagine that if an ER doc let such a patient go home AMA, and the patient DID have a concurrent spinal injury, a lawyer could come back and argue that the patient's judgement was impaired, and fault the doc for not doing the right test. Documentation in that situation wouldn't save the doc or hospital from a lawsuit.
It's an appropriate part of the physical exam in a patient with possible neurologic injury, and maybe they felt it had to be done. Maybe this story/situation speaks to how medicine is currently practiced, given how litigious the US has become, but it's a reasonable and appropriate test. The news item is written in an inflammatory tone.
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I thought the entire reasoning behind AMA forms was to shield hospitals from litigation. I don't think any lawyer would take the case if the AMA was signed and the deposed doctor says that the patient made a conscious choice to sign the papers and leave. I'm with RedJen on this. If a patient can sign a DNR, then s/he can certainly refuse a very invasive and uncomfortable proceedure. The fact that it came to blows further illistrates just how out of hand the situation was. Rape may not hold up in court due to the lack of sexual intent, but you could probably nail them with some (frankly outdated) sodomy laws. Plus, since its a civil suit, and given the sevarity of the act, he might get triple punitive damages if he doesn't settle. That means major bucks.
I'm not a lawyer, I only work for them, and I brought this up with one and she gave me most of that legal info (jargon).
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Scrub wrote:
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I've had that one too. In America. With norwegian insurance. With a norwegian tounge-twister of a name. And while high as a kite on painkillers. Also quite a doozy.
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Things signed while mentally impaired (concussion) can later be contested, and might not stand up in court. AMA does not guarantee protection.
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For all they knew, the guy could be asking them not to do it, because it was uncomfortable, because he had a spinal injury....
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Slate explains patient rights. From the original article, I don't think the doctors had the right to do what they did, but I also think the whole thing could have been avoided if they had explained the need for the test. If he was lucid and didn't appear to have any sort of mental deficiency, the doctors definitely overstepped their bounds.
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I think the best part of the story is how he refused the rectal exam in the first place. Did the doctor have freakishly big hands? Did he hear that if someone puts something up your butt, that makes you gay?
It's a normal part of an examination. My dentist gives me one every six months.
What?...
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They can fix my eyes, but in order to avoid injury, they have to go in through the rectum. No man's going that way with me.
...such a dick.
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Scrub wrote:
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Mine was during my first month in Taiwan. Folks were smoking cigarettes in the hallway. The air conditioning was busted in the recovery room I shared with 15 other post-operatives and the swarm of mosquitoes went from patient to patient. The woman next to me had some flavor of abdominal injury and kept moaning "hao tong-o" ("omfg I hurt like a mf") despite the fact that it didn't seem to have any appreciable effect on the timely response from nursing staff. Oh, and I was dosed so heavily by the anesthesiologist that I didn't wake up for four days.
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I can guarantee that if I come into the ER to get my head stitched up and the doctors want to rectally probe me without explaining the reason behind the test punches will be thrown. As far as I'm concerned what they did to this guy is no better than a frat boy with a bag of roofies at a bar. Drugs + lack of consent + something up the butt = rape.
It's that simple. Doctors fear of litigation be damned.
I predict restraints and sedation in your future then. Good luck with that.
EDIT: Never mind. Not worth it.
Morrolan wrote:
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Uh - he was sedated and forced to lie drugged up with a tube down his throat for three days, not knowing if he was going to live or die. That's terrible enough to get 2 PTSDs if you ask me.
EDIT: actually I guess that depends on the interpretation of the article, which is too vague. He could've merely woken up that way - which is still no joke - and then be forced to spend 3 days in detention center not tied to a bed.
For some reason I'm reminded of this Family Guy episode (slightly NSFW).