I'm transitioning to "No China" policy...

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TheGameguru's picture
Location: The Park

Namely I cant take the cheap quality of clothing and shoes from brands I used to like now that they've shifted to 100% Chinese manufacturing.. so I'm starting to shift to a no-China household. I urge everyone to do the same... sure your clothing and shoes will be more expensive but they will last longer.. be of higher quality and you'll end up buying less per year since they last longer.

Anyone have resources though for the rest of the products?.. obviously it will probably take me the year to fully transition over time.. for instance the majority of my Kitchen will have to be replaced.. I'm pretty sure I dont have a single Mug or Glass not made in China.

Electronics are even iffier.. I started to check a few things and was relieved to discover most are still not made in China.. and my cell phones certainly arent. (Nokia ftw)

I have to examine my PC's and Laptops.. that could be iffy as I'm sure components are made in different places and then re-assembled elsewhere.. i.e. Apple may be completely out.. (which sucks)

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LobsterMobster's picture
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GG wrote:
sure your clothing and shoes will be more expensive but they will last longer..

Easy for you to say, Mr. Hojillionaire.

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Funkenpants's picture

Considering we've offloaded our pollution onto the Chinese, I think it's a principled stand to take. I can see the argument regarding clothes and shoes, since the savings on those goods could well be illusory if they don't last. But what to do about electronics? Who are the manufacturers that still make electronics outside of China?

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Location: Richmond, VA

About how much do you plan to spend? What are your expectations as to the durability of non-Chinese made clothes versus Chinese clothes? What in your house isn't made in China?

I am curious about the financial reality of trying to replace all Chinese made products with replacement products. By replacement products I mean those made outside of China and other southeast Asian countries, as I do not believe the quality control practices are much higher in, say, Vietnam, than in China.

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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL

Most everyone is in Taiwan no?

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Robear's picture

Even if some clothes made in PRC are low-end, why would that extend to other industries? It seems to me that there's a ton of stuff made there, from high end to low end. If your stance is based on product quality, just buy stuff that is obviously well-made. It's easy enough to look for thicker fabrics, double-stitching and the like.

Getting to the level of figuring which chip fabs are good, and which are not could be difficult.

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TheGameguru's picture
Location: The Park

Quote:
What are your expectations as to the durability of non-Chinese made clothes versus Chinese clothes?

not even close.. the quality of a Paul and Shark jacket I purchased is light years ahead of the last two jackets I purchased both made in China which together cost more than the Paul and Shark. Its actually insulting once you put the jackets next to each other and closely examine them. Put some Prada shoes next to some shoes from Kenneth Cole...Timberland etc.. (now all made in China) again not even close. I mean.. I bought some Prada's in Greece for $235 EU compared to some Campers (now 100% made in China very disappointing) at $160 EU and the value of buying non Chinese is immediate.

Quote:
Who are the manufacturers that still make electronics outside of China?

Certainly an issue.. especially on the PC/Laptop side.. and ultimately could be the deal breaker.. but I hate doing things half assed.. so we'll see. I do believe there are LCD panels still made in Japan and I think Samsung still is 100% manufactured in Korea.

Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter

Down in the Park with a friend called Five.

http://wumusicgroup.com/

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MikeMac's picture
Location: London, Ontario

I'm having a hard time fully understanding the purpose here. If it's lashing out against poor quality, then China isn't the answer as there's just as much junk made all over the planet including North America. Focusing on high quality brands would make more sense to me.

Why toss out kitchen equipment from China? Do you really think glassware from China is flimsy/fragile compared to something else? What would you do with it? Haul it to the landfill? How does that help?

Do you consider Taiwan part of China? If so, you'll be quite limited for electronics choices.

In general I don't support the junk stores or brands myself, so I might be with you on this!

Regardless, converting the consumer herd mentality from "Lowest Price is BEST" to something more centered around quality or value is a long shot.

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Gorilla.800.lbs's picture
Location: New York, NY

What the heck is "$160 EU"? One hundred sixty European dollars?

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TheGameguru's picture
Location: The Park

Gorilla.800.lbs wrote:
What the heck is "$160 EU"? One hundred sixty European dollars?

I'm to lazy to hunt down the official EU symbol on my keyboard

Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter

Down in the Park with a friend called Five.

http://wumusicgroup.com/

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TheGameguru's picture
Location: The Park

Micro€oft

see..doesnt really work

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DSGamer's picture
Location: Pacific Northwest

This reminds me of an experimnt I tried once. I decided to try weaning myself off of foreign made goods. I went to the mall and decided I'd look for new clothing. I figured start small. Electronics are probably impossible, was my thinking. I found 2 shirts in an entire mall. 2 shirts. Needless to say that that experiment phailed.

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jowner's picture
Location: Limbo

Not really having the same problem. Just checked the last like 5-6 articles of clothing I bought and they are India, India, Indonesia, China, China and USA! (or at least the tag says so). The Indian fabric and quality seem great, maybe the quality will become more apparent after some more washes. The Chinese stuff is also fairly good but I wouldn't say as good as from India. All of this is pretty much pointless though as it is all brand dependent. One piece is a pair of Tommy jeans made in India and I love them just because they fit so well and the material is very good. Especially compared to the previous pair I got at Old Navy made in Mexico which are pretty awful. But then on the flip side Old Navy makes very good cheap Khakis made in the Dominican Republic.

I really think it goes by a case by case study and even deeper then brands but products within a brand.

Edit: the one exception I do have is I got some fake shoes from China from Ioffer. But even then its hit or miss. One pair of Nikes I got are falling apart from some rough use at work whereas the other pair are holding up very well. In hindsight I would of still bought them as both styles were limited edition I wouldn't even be able to buy in a normal retail store.

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Jayhawker's picture
Location: St. Louis

DSGamer wrote:
This reminds me of an experimnt I tried once. I decided to try weaning myself off of foreign made goods. I went to the mall and decided I'd look for new clothing. I figured start small. Electronics are probably impossible, was my thinking. I found 2 shirts in an entire mall. 2 shirts. Needless to say that that experiment phailed.

There's always nudist colonies.

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Staats's picture
Location: Minnesota

"phailed" with a "ph"? Huh?

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Farscry's picture
Location: Commanding at the Helm

TheGameguru wrote:
Quote:
What are your expectations as to the durability of non-Chinese made clothes versus Chinese clothes?

not even close.. the quality of a Paul and Shark jacket I purchased is light years ahead of the last two jackets I purchased both made in China which together cost more than the Paul and Shark. Its actually insulting once you put the jackets next to each other and closely examine them. Put some Prada shoes next to some shoes from Kenneth Cole...Timberland etc.. (now all made in China) again not even close. I mean.. I bought some Prada's in Greece for $235 EU compared to some Campers (now 100% made in China very disappointing) at $160 EU and the value of buying non Chinese is immediate.

Good god, man, you live in a completely different world than me. All of the goods/stores you listed here are way out of my typical range for my livelihood. Shoes? Dr. Scholl's from Target. Jackets or coats? Something once every 7ish years from Kohl's or maybe Sears if I want to spend a little more.

I sweat out budgeting for fresh produce over prepackaged foods for health reasons and balancing my budget on a monthly basis. Having a root canal (and another upcoming) broke my budget entirely for a 4-month period.

I can only wish my worries were something as simple as whether I should avoid Chinese-made goods. Seriously, be thankful you are as well off as you are. You're quite fortunate.

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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

I had seriously considered doing something like this once too both because of quality and because of the horrendous working conditions many Chinese plants have. Honestly though, it's incredibly hard to avoid China, particularly if you are into electronics and gaming. If you want to game, you literally can't avoid China ever. Every console, every PC component and pretty much every television and home theater receiver is made there. And I hope you don't like your high speed Internet because every broadband modem I've ever seen was made in China. I once looked around the store I work at to see if there were any TVs that weren't made in China. There was one model and it was a terrible generic brand that was discontinued shortly thereafter. With clothing, there is a little more freedom if you have the money to spend (and are into the style of the brands that are made outside China.)

It's also true that this doesn't have so much to do with China specifically as with consumers who want expensive things for nothing and manufacturers who want those extra few cents (or sometimes dollars) of margin. If all this stuff was getting made in say New Zealand instead, I think we'd still have the same quality problems, though maybe those of us who think about things like working conditions could have a clearer conscience. It's a shame that this is how the consumer goods market has ended up and if you can cut China out of your life, it's to be applauded. But for most people, particularly technology enthusiasts, it's near impossible to do so.

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Gorilla.800.lbs's picture
Location: New York, NY

Our household has a "no china" policy when we do barbeque in the backyard -- we're using disposable paper cups and plates instead.

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fangblackbone's picture
Location: bay area

I have had some issues with cheap store clothing like that from Old Navy. Most of the $15 jeans I've bought there have developed holes at some of the seams around the seat and pocket area after only a few months. I am going to wear them out as long as I can despite also fraying along the front pocket after only a few washes. I am definitely beginning to value $40-60 jeans that last for 4-5 years.

Shoes are similar. I lucked out and got a fabulous pair of Sketchers from Ross for $20 that lasted me 1.5 years. ( I wore them for 2) So of course I scoured a few Ross stores to find another pair and ended up getting a Pair of Reeboks for the same amount that lasted 5 months. So I went to the Sketchers outlet and got a pair for $50 and the quality of how they feel and how my feet feel after hours of standing or walking is remarkable.

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jowner's picture
Location: Limbo

I don't get the working conditions argument especially regarding China. I'm 99% confident the man/women/kid who made my knock of shoes felt much safer doing that then working in a Chinese coal mine... Am I missing something blatantly obvious? I might be an Ass or something but the only thing that would bother me if the labor was actually slave and not willing participants in conditions that might pale to our standards but are considered not so bad in their country.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

The idea that only cheap crap is made in China is simply untrue anymore. Coach, Louis Vuiton, and many other high end designer products are being made in China. Large segments of the Boeing Dreamliner are being manufactured there as well.

If your aim is to avoid being saddled with poor quality crap, avoid shopping at Old Navy. The stuff you'll get at Brooks Brothers will be many times better and more durable irrespective of its country of origin.

There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.

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Robear's picture

Quote:

Our household has a "no china" policy when we do barbeque in the backyard -- we're using disposable paper cups and plates instead.

You can't put good 'que on anything but paper, anyway.

“Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly.” Atty Gen'l John Ashcroft, on secret NSC torture guideline discussions.

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TheGameguru's picture
Location: The Park

Quote:
Every console, every PC component and pretty much every television and home theater receiver is made there. And I hope you don't like your high speed Internet because every broadband modem I've ever seen was made in China.

My Xbox 360 and Cable Modem were made in Mexico.. I just checked.

Quote:
The idea that only cheap crap is made in China is simply untrue anymore. Coach, Louis Vuiton, and many other high end designer products are being made in China. Large segments of the Boeing Dreamliner are being manufactured there as well.

Thats my biggest beef I think.. for instance I used to love Camper Shoes.. they were made in Spain were awesome in quality and design.. and then wham! they shifted everything to being made in China for the exact same cost (if not higher cost in some cases) with a noticeable drop in quality with their classic designs.. frankly unacceptable in my book.

Coach to.. F' that.. I'm not paying higher prices for lower quality goods.. I'm sticking with Clothing made in Italy, France, Spain, hell even here in the USA.

I'm working on the electronics.. but like I said.. I hate doing things half assed so we'll see.

Tumi is going to miss a very good customer though.. but I fired off a letter.

Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter

Down in the Park with a friend called Five.

http://wumusicgroup.com/

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Farscry's picture
Location: Commanding at the Helm

Robear wrote:
Quote:

Our household has a "no china" policy when we do barbeque in the backyard -- we're using disposable paper cups and plates instead.

You can't put good 'que on anything but paper, anyway.

Gentlemen & scholars, the both of you!

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Jayhawker's picture
Location: St. Louis

jowner wrote:
I don't get the working conditions argument especially regarding China. I'm 99% confident the man/women/kid who made my knock of shoes felt much safer doing that then working in a Chinese coal mine... Am I missing something blatantly obvious? I might be an Ass or something but the only thing that would bother me if the labor was actually slave and not willing participants in conditions that might pale to our standards but are considered not so bad in their country.

Well, if your goal is to be the American that the rest of the world hates, mission accomplished. Americans are pretty proud of the fact that we got rid of sweatshops, and came up with child labor laws. So the rest of the world sees it as pretty hypocritical of us to move operations abroad and still reap the benefits of these labor practices. And, well, it is. But at least most of us kind of just don't look at the tags, and try not to think about it.

Your take is more honest, though.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Cabin John, MD

Jayhawker wrote:

Well, if your goal is to be the American that the rest of the world hates, mission accomplished. Americans are pretty proud of the fact that we got rid of sweatshops, and came up with child labor laws. So the rest of the world sees it as pretty hypocritical of us to move operations abroad and still reap the benefits of these labor practices. And, well, it is. But at least most of us kind of just don't look at the tags, and try not to think about it.

Your take is more honest, though.

I think that is a bit of an overstatement.

Folks are more disgruntled at American moralizing about how another country is supposed to run their government and economy than they are with our tolerance of sweatshop labor. In my years overseas, I never much noticed folks getting that worked up about Americans buying goods from China so much as they got pissed about Americans telling them that they had to buy American cigarettes (and couldn't put warning labels on them without incurring the wrath of Jesse Helms and his power on international trade committees).

There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism,... those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.

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Got some business deal in the works, GG?

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Grumpicus's picture
Location: Piedra Redonda, Tejas

TheGameguru wrote:
the majority of my Kitchen will have to be replaced.

Wha? I'll grant you not spending money on future purchases that don't meet a certain criteria but why would you throw out perfectly good, perfectly usable items just because of some stamp on the bottom? I had you pegged a few notches higher on the fiscal intellect scale.

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Robear's picture

I can believe the Xbox 360 is *assembled* in Mexico, but there's no way the components don't include Chinese electronics. No way.

“Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly.” Atty Gen'l John Ashcroft, on secret NSC torture guideline discussions.