Why does everyone hate Runescape? Seriously
Disclaimer: Lol wut? and before anyone asks why, because I can, because its fun and because it keeps me sane.
Now everyone has heard of Runescape, and everyone bashes it. "Oh its THAT game, lawl!". But the the vast majority of people who bash runescape have never played it. And the comments about the gameplay are almost wholly negative. This is of course, because the people who DO enjoy it are off actually playing the game and have no time to humour the rabble.
Runescape is more or less the poster child of under appreciated games. There are many of them out there. Some people frown at me for preferring such games as Soldat to Bioshock. I am often told that DF is a "sh*tty" game because of its unbelievable complexity and "dumbed down" graphics, what these people miss is that those exact points are what makes DF so great.
When you stop to think and examine, you will see that Jagex has done plenty right.
- The business model of a large FTP population interlinked with a smaller but dedicated P2P cadre might seem odd, but 1 million paid subscriptions certainly make the point. 1 million! Even adjusting for inflated or skewed statistics (as if there were any other type) that is still what, 1/10 the population of WoW the juggernaught? Very few MMORPGs (relative to the running total) can boast a stable population of similar size.
The free section of runescape is massive in content if not scale compared to similar "try before you buy areas". There are limits, but they are few and mostly have to do with speed. Most people would not think to say, level thier blacksmithing skill to 99 in the FTP worlds, but the fact is that it CAN be done. Why is this a good thing? It means that people who pay to play still have a large pool of viable rivals. Fighters from the Free side are not much weaker than and greatly outnumber the Paying fighters. If both groups were isolated whether by population or strength, the pvp facet would be weak, and thats no fun.
- Runescape never lacks for content. It has a large selection of unique skills, all of which can be leveled from 1 to 99. Oodles of quests, with more constantly coming down the pipeline. A vast selection of multiplayer minigames that never lie dormant. This is great strength, as even the greatest games can be crippled by the lack of "new".
Not only does Runescape recieve new content, but existing content is ofted upgraded, expanded or evolved. New animations get sneaked in on the sides, boring archaic character models get facelifts. This is much much more than I can say for many games. Back when I played WoW, spiders for example ALL had the same exact sounds and animations. The only thing that set them apart from one another is size and superficial skins. I have never played them but am often told that this happens in many other games, EQ2 being a good example.
- With some notable exceptions (co-op quests/team minigames etc) runescape is completetly soloable. Some would see this as a blessing or curse, in truth it is something of both. What makes it work in this case is that people can choose to solo when they want, and team up when they want. They are not forced into either. Better to have the option and never need it, instead of not having it at all.
- Developers routinely put out games that MURDER the average computer. In most cases they actively develop games to run on hardware that has yet to exist (leading to unforgivable sins such as lagging console games). In pursuit of realism, playability goes out the window. There is an obvious downside to this in that people without the uber loot have no game, so to speak. When you look at Runescape, what you see is a tiny screen with simple graphics. Remind me, what is wrong about simple?
I have seen people play runescape in web cafes side by side with people playing counterstrike source. I have also seen little kids monopolize the total crap computers residing in the local public libraries. (not that we can complain of course, free is free). The difference between the two is that old 486s will choke and die on CS source, yet runescape runs smooth as a ferarri on either platform. Looking at the success of the wii, there is something to be said about unfettered accessibility, that being it works, and its great.
- Bots, bots bots bots. They are everywhere, we hate em. However I am glad to report that Jagex has recently brought down exterminatus on real world trading for in game items. It used to be that you couldnt walk 10 paces without seeing 10 bots in runescape. (I even checked because I didnt believe, its true, or was). Without going into too much detail Jagex has in one fell swoop:
1. Banned a lot of bots. 2. Muzzled the market so that items can only be sold for they are actually worth. 3. Plugged the holes allowing bots to funnel money into merchant characters.
Along with these admirable changes there are a lot of controvertial changes to the game. I have little to say about them except that they are the price of change for the better. Losing your "awesome" gas guzzling hummer might seem like a pile of suck, but you will be glad to do your part once mother nature starts hitting back in the form of global warming, which is real despite what various governments would like you to think. But I digress.
A lot of game companies are hesitant in the extreme to take such harsh measured against the gamer population. It seems that companies would not want to lose the income from deleted bot accounts and so let such things live. The frustration and annoyance of the legitimate gamer population is put off as "cost of doing business". This is rather chilling in that it seems such companies think of player satisfaction as lost income. Of course this is all a bit extreme, given that it is an exaggerated example, but the roots still hold true.
So to conclude, stop bashing Runescape!
By now most of you probably think that I am trying to sell Runescape to the masses. Far from it. The reason I feel obligated to take the position of devils advocate is that the ignorance about "simple" games like runescape and others with "simple" graphics/interfaces (like dwarf fortress) has reached an almost painful level. "Fun" is NOT composed solely of graphics or gameplay. The mix of both and how gamers react to the resulting flavour IS.
Fact is, people do play and enjoy Runescape, Nethack, DF and such grand fossils as XCOM 1. To all the detractors, I have this to say. There are people out there making a well paid living off of making runescape, and you are not. To the rest of you, don't let the vocal majority put you off something that you may enjoy greatly. You will never know for sure until you try.
There is fun to be had in many places, but the onus is on you to make it work for yourself. If you dont like something, thats fine, move on! But don't ruin the enjoyment of others by dragging things through the mud.
I don't hate it. I just don't like it.
"I'm absolutely retarded. Not 100% sure why." - atom
"Dhelor + intarwebs = Great ideas." - wordsmythe
"Do I what I do: hate everyone." - Quintin_Stone
Moving to MMORPG section.
Certis beat me to it. - Elysium
You forgot to make any arguments about whether or not Runescape is any fun
I've never heard of it, personally. Or if I have, it's been brief mentions not worth storing away in the old grey matter.
At least Im not bashing it, right?
ThePolypusher
WAR - Dolz
Having never played Runescape, I can't give any personal opinions, but I did find a few points in your post here interesting:
In October 2007 Runescape came in at 3.03% of the total MMO subscriber population, making it a firm "middle-of-the-pack" MMO. Games that beat it were WoW, Second Life, Dofus, Knight Online, Guild Wars, and Lineage I/II. At that time, WoW only made up 26.03% of the market, so you're fraction was slightly lower than reality at that time (may be different now, I can't find anything more recent that this data).
However, numbers do not a good game make. A relatively insignificant game with an extremely small user base can be very good, while a juggernaut can suck the fun out of a game. On the flip side of that coin, the juggernaut must be doing something right to be bringing in so many people. All I'm saying is that subscriptions should never be used to show if a game is good or not.
New is not always better. Asheron's Call has been doing monthly updates with new content and items for nearly 10 years now, and their subscription base is dwindling. The direction that game took is frustrating, because it could have been so much better.
Regardless of what the development team has done to prevent them, the fact that you had to bring up ToS abusers, and defend the game in spite of them, tells a lot about a game's community. I mean, would you want to go out and buy a house in a bad area, because the cops are really good at catching all the criminals?
Some people also like hooking giant fish hooks to their genitals, and hanging from the ceiling, but I doubt I'd like it much. Not trying to shoot you down, just showing that your arguments are a bit weak. Companies don't make a game that they don't think anyone will like. There will always be someone out there that enjoys it. But there are also going to be people that hate it. That's just life.
IronClad Online: PurEvil
Oh whoops! I had both forums open and think I hit new post in the wrong one. Thanks for the switch.
Simply put, thats not for me to decide.
That being said. Its pretty hard to play chess with yourself. Lack of population can kill any mmo and many have already died. That this has yet to happen with Runescape is simply a mark in Jagex's favour. Those subscription numbers do not take into account the gigantic free population which in can equal the p2p population at some aspects, namely combat.
Bad example, if the population is dwindling due to a lack of new players then keeping the game interesting is the least of thier worries. Do not confuse "new" with "change". New is always better in that it is interesting. Change can also be interesting if it affects the game in a positive manner. In this case "new" would be like adding entire new minigames and world areas and "change" would be adding new weapons to an already defined, solid and interesting combat system.
Tell me, how often do games like WoW apply the nerfbat and the antichicken? How about GW? It seems not a month can go by without some skill or other being nerfed into oblivion.
I wouldnt mind in this "bad area". Seeing as the cops refused all bribes, rounded up the criminals and had them shot. Its much better to live beside honest cops when you compare them to the various alternatives.
Of course. But do you see people going around holding placards and chanting things like "FLESH HOOKS ARE A SIN AND CAUSE CANCER"? What right do you have to negatively influence the oppinion of others on subjects they know nothing about? About the sum of your honesty and respect, rounded down.
Heh, internet discussions are like a flint knife. It doesnt matter how big the blade is or how many fangs are hanging from the pommel as long as the other guy gets the point. So do you? Or do I have to crack some more rocks.
That wasn't my intention, and I even stated that it wasn't. My entire post was to show that your arguments are weak, not that you're right or wrong. Besides the needless insult to my honesty and respect, your second post made a slightly better argument.
Instead of getting defensive, you should put more energy into giving good examples of why people shouldn't be bashing the things they are. You say above that, "Runescape is more or less the poster child of under appreciated games.", yet you don't say why, or why it should be more popular. Hell, in your entire post, you never once mentioned if YOU even liked it. Your post has all the trappings of a person who's advertising the game, but it feels like it's coming from some corporate exec. who's trying to boost his numbers. Obviously you have some personal feelings towards this game, but because you hold them back, your post seems empty.
If the game's good, tell us why, instead of tossing personal attacks at people trying to show you why your topic misses it's mark.
IronClad Online: PurEvil
We were bashing Runescape? I thought we were just ignoring it.
Sometimes, if you wanna save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
-Bernard
We bash Runescape here?
Seriously though, this is the strangest first/introductory post I've yet seen on GWJ: a massive defense of a game that I'm not aware we bash.
I only came here because it was astonishing to see something other that WoW or GW related. I haven't heard anyone even mention Runescape in years.
After doing a search through GWJ, dhelor mentioned (in a list) in Jan 2007 that he played Runescape at one time, but didn't say anything about it specifically, H.P. might have tossed out a small slight against Runescape players in an Auto Assault thread in Sept 2006, and Karmajay mentioned in a thread in March 2007 that it was frustrating when his son died in Runescape and lost some hard-to-find items, but that happens in a lot of MMO's... No real bashing though.
IronClad Online: PurEvil
Good research Pur, sounds like we have a plant to me then.
Yeah, I figured Runescape was one of those MMORPGs that was around for one open beta weekend and then it vanished. I think I'll look into it a little more because I'm getting the shakes from not playing an MMORPG in the last 6 months.
XBL: elliottxW
MMO Aliases: Jozak or Ezzamar
There are a good number of free MMO's out there. Not saying don't try Runescape, just that with little research you can have a number of decent games to try out without spending a dime. I started looking into them because I can't play WoW much with my wife at home all the time (she despises MMO's), and I don't see any point in paying the subscription to play an hour or two a month, if I'm lucky.
Since leaving WoW, I've tried Anarchy Online (free version), Rappelz, RF Online, Ruff-R.O.S.E, Hero Online, and some other game that seems to have slipped my mind at the moment (Edit: Project Torque). Most were decent, though each has it's problems. Worth the time to see something new though. If I get more time once we get moved into the new place, I might start doing a free MMO review for these boards, since I enjoy writing, and it'd really be nice to see something other than WoW scheduling in here.
IronClad Online: PurEvil
I really like the idea of seeing current reviews for some free MMORPGs. God speed in moving into your new place.
After looking into Runescape, I don't think I can get by the graphics. Yes I'm shallow and I love it.
XBL: elliottxW
MMO Aliases: Jozak or Ezzamar
Go for it, Pur! I like reading write-ups.
Oh, and yeah, I have to agree with this. I like to try various freebie games out there, and with all the popularity I've heard that Runebound enjoys, I took a look.
You know, sometimes graphics are worse than just going with a text adventure. I'd rather play a good MUD than Runebound.
Runescape... Meh.
I tired it for about an hour, and couldn't get the hang of any of the controls or the camera. The graphics are pretty terrible, almost to the point where it's difficult to play the game-picking up drops was a chore.
It just seemed to be a shallow Everquest clone without a compelling world to back it up.
WoW: Cuberen(70 Druid)-Dark Iron, Spacecube(70 Shaman)-Dark Iron
WAR: Cube(6 Engineer)-Iron Rock, Huntercube(15 Witch Hunter)-Iron Rock
Pur, I'm trying to load up on some freebies to scratch any MMO itch I might get this year. I could not get Funcom's site to let me make an account. Were you able to create a free account recently, or was this some time ago?
EDIT - Nevermind. Maybe it was the holiday crush or something. I was just able to create a free account.
Xbox Live | Steam | Last.fm
Some time ago, but I agree with you, you probably just hit a bit of holiday traffic.
IronClad Online: PurEvil
It's boring to me. That's why I don't play it. I'm sure if I played it a bit more though I would come to hate it.
Yet even then we ran like the wind,
whilst our laughter echoed under cerulean skies...
Face value is overrated.
Actually not my first. We had a pretty fun discussion about mmo tanking which by now is probably on page 24 or something.
Um... sorry if that offended you, I should probably have used "they" instead of "you" but I was trying to be rhetorical.
And if my wording falls flat perhaps you should ask me to clarify what I mean instead of flinging mud. Oh well, no hard feelings. I would tell you to grow up but the irony would kill us
In case anyone is still confused, my original argument was that a lot of people hate Runescape and none of them know why, except that they hate it. This is very bad for games as a whole because it completetly stagnates what people think of as a viable game. This situation is paralelled in many places. I have met hundreds of gamers who will not try dwarf fortress because of stupid misconceptions they have recieved by word of mouth. Some people think that because DF is a roguelike, it has no graphics and only uses letters. Apart from that being THE ENTIRE POINT, DF also has many excellent custom tilesets as well as a 3d visualization program that renders its multilevel 2d map as a 3d image.
I see little point in including my personal experience of runescape because It would make it seem like I was trying to sell you something you probably don't want. But as it seems as you guys have taken it that way ANYWAY, just go and try it. Make up your own mind.
Even if such things do not happen here, you are a gamer and like me, guilty by association. We are the only people who care about such things, which means we are also the only people who can change them.
Ever played Achaea? If there are people in existence who spend hours digging a virtual hole in the ground then I can damn well spend 2 hours catching butterflies and punching imps! If I remember correctly I even kicked a duck at one point, it was for a quest. Seriously.
Everquest had a compelling world? Do tell.
Just because someone dislikes something and can't articulate why, doesn't invalidate their opinion and it doesn't mean they don't know why, necessarily, just that they can't express it, and rather than sounding like a hemming and hawing idiot, "I don't know, I just don't like it" is much easier and quicker.
There's lots of stuff I don't like but can't really articulate.
I can't stand Fallout1/2 - can't really say why, just don't like 'em.
I loved The Realm - can't really say precisely why, but I did.
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
I didn't see Pur slinging any mud.
I also don't recall any Runescape bashing in the past year or so. I don't remember much discussion of it at all.
Advocacy of your favored game is certainly welcome on GWJ, but your logic and approach are a bit... off... for the reasons Pur is expressing.
Your Quote Here!
I think you may be preaching to the choir here Tamren. If I understand you correctly, your main point is "don't be hatin' on a game without tryin' it out a bit". I've never seen any significant Runescape 'bashing' outside of other MMO forums and in public chat tabs in other MMO's. When I was playing WoW, it seemed like I saw someone mention Runescape somewhere in the lowbie areas, and it became a contest to see who could find a new way of saying 'Runescape sucks' the quickest. It almost seems to be a badge of honor to 'hate' Runescape while playing WoW. (that same attitude can often be seen in other MMOG's towards WoW these days ;p ). Most people here (at least most people who post) do not seem to feel a need to prove their superiority by expressing their hatred or dislike of any particular game
As for me, I tried playing with a freebie account for awhlie, but it never really hooked me. I certainly don't hate the game though, as it indirectly helps pay my bills
private String paula = "Brillant";
If i never posted anything here i've still bad mouthed Runescape or rather humpfed in disbelief when hearing the number of people that still play that game. Reason being was the little bt i tried to play it did absolutely nothing for me. And like you mentioned i moved on. Some IP's have more devoted fans than others.
People have different preferences for the games they play and not everyone is going to like the same ones you do.
Gamer Tag: Rantyr
The difference is. You created your oppinion of those games, you didn't inherit them second hand. Which is a good thing.
Hey, read the disclaimer, you were warned
Oh go ahead and hate, just do your homework first. All to often I have seen people hate things for reasons that don't actually exist. Case in point, antigun lady campaigns to ban the almighty evil "BARREL SHROUD"!. Ohoho really? I watched the interview and the host was having trouble containing his mirth. When confronted with the question of what a barrel shroud actually was, the woman replied with a shrug and said: "the shoulder thing that goes up?"
Those would be words to live by. If I didn't already
--
If you take nothing else from this thread just think for a second. If you start digging in the dirt and hit a rock, dont stop because it might be a treasure chest! If it turns out to be treasure, get some friends in to help you dig. If it turns out to be a rock after all, pick it up and throw it at whomever sent you on the wild snipe hunt. Cause if you just threw your shovel, then you would have no shovel! And thats no fun, or something.
Every kid I know (in my family and their friends) either plays Runescape or played it for awhile. All of them started on the free servers and transitioned to the 5.00/month servers.
The amount of content is ridiculous but I just can't get past the Uo type graphics PLUS...too many kids play.
I don't think I've ever said this sentence before, but man would I love to hump that butterfly.-- KrazyTaco
One phone call and you're melting like butter over my kettle pop. -- Edwin to Mex
2005 GWJFFL2 Champion
The last time I actively played the game was back before it went "mainstream" with the younger gamers. Mostly because I was stuck with a crappy computer back then. Every tried to play starcraft tower defence with a touchpad? yeah it was painful. Since then I have dropped in now and then, again mostly when a good gaming rig is not available.
The kids! omg, there is nothing to compare them with in other games. Ever gone to a library and tried to study while 8 kids are shouting tips at each other from across the computer court because they couldnt get stations beside each other? Yeah that we could do without.
Trying my hardest not to come off as shallow but I really couldn't get past its looks. I'm not talking about polygons and motion blur or what-have-you, I mean it is hideous because it has no cohesive style, much like EverQuest or Second Life. I even find Incursion's ASCII graphics more appealling (I don't know, there's something so deliciously nerdy about an ASCII roguelike's looks). Style dammit! Do more with less, that's what it's all about!
Alright I'm shallow so I'm shallow. That doesn't change the fact that Runescape's got a UI only it's mother could love!
Mr.Green wrote:
Sometimes simple is good. Quake wars for example. The character models? Brown on brown plus brown trim. With a little green and some tan. It might have plenty of style granted, but that fails to exuse the fact that we can't see jack!
For what its worth, Dwarf Fortress doesn't even *have* an interface. The graphics are character tiles instead of sprites. Yet this is more of a blessing. A typical screenshot of a DF meadow is a lot of green punctuation marks with a handful of white infinity symbols. While most of you would see nothing but symbols, to me its just another grass meadow. The green symbols are grass, the odd " is a shrub, the infinity symbols are various rock boulders and that brown D in the corner is a wild deer. Now if you compared DF to something like Settlers, and Runescape to something like EQ, they will simply not stack up together graphically. Whether or not this is a good thing is up to player interpretation.
In dwarf fortress, If I see a red happy face (with beard) I know instantly that it represents one of the fortress mechanics. This is far easier than squinting at all of the dwarf sprites trying to find the one with the tiny red coat and wrench.
Argueably having a small interface is not a cop out in terms of quality but a roaring success at condensing information. Maybe the interface is so small because we don't actually need it to have fun?
Great, now I'm making a terrible first impression too.
Ahh, haterade.
I agree, it's terrible to see people say "no that game sucks" based on it's graphics. My friends ridicule me for simply playing dwarf fortress, I'm not even trying to push it on them.
That being said, I fail to see a significant difference difference between Runescape and Progress Quest.
I am therefore quite offended that you've compared dwarf fortress to it, let alone the entire category of under appreciated games, which I adore.
Besides, Runescape is quite popular. It's not an undiscovered gem, it's a game played excessively by those it's best suited for- people (kids, usually) who lack the motivation or credit card or ability to play anything better. Mostly, anyway. There are exceptions, like you and this one friend I have.
So tell me why you play. I'm genuinely interested, I cant see much reason to.
PS- You prefer Soldat to Bioshock? As in, some guys all like "Dude Bioshock is so cool!" and you're like "Hah! Plebian, I play Soldat!"? Are you hating games on the basis that they have good graphics? =/