On Giving Notice
Today I have to give notice at my current job, and I've given notice before, but I know that things have changed in the past few years with what I've been hearing. I work in management(in title, not in responsibility) at a failing chain that's been open barely 9 months, and when people have given notice they've been removed from the schedule.
I know this happens at other places, but I can't deal financially with that happening. I also can't have that negative reference of "He did work here, but no comment", which another of my last jobs (with the big lasers) does, and does not sound good to employers. A connection with the Dept. of Labor in Albany said that they're covering their asses, yet he still doesn't understand why some jobs request employment references and not professional references. It'd be much easier for all parties involved. (check this box if we can call the employer- if I don't, they think something's up)..
One of those silly "it's illegal to give somebody a bad reference, therefor you say 'Said person did work here, and I confirm that he did' or a 'no comment'", which if a past boss has a weird vendetta or a personality, could essentially make me look like a bad employee and not worth the hire. There are 4 people I trust to give good references as professional ones (including the friend in Albany, and Inigo from GWJ, and 1 other person from Verizon).
Any advice from gamers transitioning jobs (past or present) in here?
(sorry this may read a bit disjointed or with half-thoughts, but I'm late for work, sitting warpped in my towel at my PC, debating stuff.)
MaxShrek .. looks like Jake.. drives like Elwood.
It often helps if you talk to your employer about the reasons you are leaving if it is not because you hate the job. If you simply explain that you have valued the experience, learned a a lot from the leadership in the company and the opportunity to be a leader to such loyal employees, and are sorry to be leaving, but you feel that it is time for a different experience where you can continue to grow (or make more money if that is part of it), they usually are more understanding and likely to give you good references to others. You are also putting a really great (and fresh) interaction in their minds, so when other employers do call to ask about you, they will have something to say.
Also, when you fill out applications, there is usually a place to write why you no longer work at your former jobs. It is small, so come up with a quick phrase that will help explain why you gave notice in case you don't get a glowing review.
Good luck!
"I can't knife you right now. I have a chair and some pants."
It depends on the employer. Every IT job I've left has gone, "Two weeks? Nah, here's your box."
Could they still function smoothly without you? If not, you're possibly okay, and they'd appreciate the notice. If they can, you run a high risk of being shown the door.
I have yet to encounter an employer who was disparaged by a "neutral" report from a previous employer. They've all asked me about reasons for leaving before contacting previous employers. Only one interview (of many) has even yielded a call to verify employment.
If you can't live without the money, and you are fairly sure you'll be shown the door, then look out for numero uno. If you're really sure, then wait two weeks and "turn in notice". A quiet employment verification beats missed rent any day.
Grenn wrote:
Talk to your buddy in Albany. Whenever I've had someone give me two weeks notice, and decided to just have him/her leave that day, we've always paid for the two weeks. I always assumed it was the law in order to keep it a resignation, and not turn it into a termination.
My guess is if they have you leave they owe you two weeks pay.
As far as the two weeks notice, my stance is you need to give it. It's not an option.
edit: To address something little codger said. When hiring, I consider "no comments" from past employers as a big red flag. If I get more than one I move on.
"I learned 2 things today - first, I've got to use Mariano as my closer and second, I suck". - Francona after the AllStar parade in NYC
XBox Live Gamertag:
GWJ Superfly
I despise that employers do this (along with requiring degrees for trained monkey work, but I digress). The guy who fields those calls here has one answer, "no comment". I don't care if you were the best employee in the history of the company, he will have no comment. He will verify name, job title, and employment dates.
The "no comment" in my past comes from an employer who was mad that I didn't take a demotion and instead left for a position paying almost double his hourly rate. I offered one month notice, and was shown the door. Luckily, they haven't been on my resume for years.
Given, multiple "no comments" should be a warning flag, as they are indicative of a pattern involving bridges and fire.
Grenn wrote:
Same at most of the places I work. When I'm hiring, I just ask them if it's company policy that they don't comment. If it is, that's fine, but I've had one guy that said "Well... no." I counted that as a negative referral.
My former workplace will only confirm dates of employment regardless of the terms on which you left - good, bad, or indifferent. It may be more common than you think and, if so, not as big a concern as you're making it out to be.
"All that time you waste dating and having sex could be better spent scouring the web for new game developer press releases." - Quintin_Stone
Most companies will only confirm that someone worked for them, nothing more. It's to protect their behind. If they say the former employee was great and it turns out they aren't so in their new job, they've opened themselves up to a lawsuit from the new company. If the former employee sucked and they say so, then they open themselves up to a lawsuit from the former employee. The only answer that won't get them sued is "Yes, they worked for us."
My references are always individuals that I've worked with--managers, colleagues, etc. If you have a good relationship with them, then they are your best bet. They'll understand why you had to move on, but will still say good things about you and the work you did.
I've typically given two weeks notice and haven't had any company give me the bum's rush. I just spend that time transitioning projects, cleaning out my desk, and taking longer lunches.
Allow me to clarify. All companies have policies that preclude them from giving referrals to past employees. This is to primarily keep them safe from defamation lawsuits from disgruntled employees who receive bad referrals. In a court of law the company would be required to prove any negative comments made. The easy solution is to have a no referral policy.
In practice I have found that if you leave a company on good terms, in most cases you should not have a problem asking a manager to give you a referral in the future. Don't allow the "guy who fields those calls" to control your future. You should always contact any reference before you use them to give them a heads up that they may be getting a call soon, and to ensure they are willing to vouch for your work ethic not just your employment dates.
Although all companies have no referral policies, I generally have no problem getting referrals from past employers. I also have never heard an employer give a negative review of a past employee. I do get some employers quoting policy. I consider these to be negative reviews. All managers I know use this guideline.
I want Max to know that if he leaves on bad terms and is unable to get someone to agree to be a reference it could have negative repercussions down the line.
"I learned 2 things today - first, I've got to use Mariano as my closer and second, I suck". - Francona after the AllStar parade in NYC
XBox Live Gamertag:
GWJ Superfly
This may just be a Texas thing, but I thought all they could ask was "Did this person work for you?" and "Would you hire them again?" Still, a no comment on a rehire question would look bad.
I've never had trouble getting a job again regardless of whether I gave two weeks notice or not. Sometimes your situation doesn't allow you to give two weeks. As a rule I try to give notice, but as someone else said, you have to look out for number one. In the end, that company isn't interested in what is best for you, only what is best for their bottom line.
One of the things I started doing is not taking all my vacation hours since I get paid for them if I ever leave my current job. That way I can give them notice and if the boot me right then and there, I still have some cushion until the new job starts. I have about two weeks of vacation time saved up now. This doesn't really help now, I'm sure, just thought I would throw it out.
Oh hey, you can always use the "Hey boss, I have this friend that is thinking about putting in his notice..."
Somebody told me how frightening it was how much topsoil we are losing each year, but I told that story around the campfire and nobody got scared.
I was contacted as a reference for someone I'd worked with once. I gave a "no comment" as a professional response to a question I didn't feel legally entitled to answer truthfully. The caller assured me they wouldn't pursue action, but merely wanted to know if I thought the person in question would be a good fit for their organization. I weighed my options and decided to reply honestly. I asked for more details regarding the position and the organization, then told the caller that I honestly didn't think the person in question would be a good fit. I then proceeded to explain why. Then I explained why I would be a better fit. I got the job, and it was a good one. I have no regrets.
Don't be saucy with me, Bernaise. - Count DeMonet
FalseGravity - My first blog.
My employer has dealt with the lawsuit issue by having the departing employee sign a release that says they won't sue based on any reference we provide. I appreciate that, as it has allowed me to give referrals where I would have otherwise had to stick to name/rank/serial #.
If it's dead, it's probably me.
Now that's just awesome. Granted, I'll never use you as a reference, but awesome nonetheless.
Why anyone would sign that release is beyond me. What's to stop someone having a bad day from sh*tting all over your referral call? And then you can't do anything about it? Anyone who signed that would be a fool.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
Well, in the case of employees leaving on good terms, if they want a good referral from me instead of a "no comment", they sign it, and sometimes that is important to them getting their next job. Those who wouldn't get a good referral don't tend to ask for one anyway.
I may be in evil management, but I, like most managers I know, am eager to provide a good reference for good employees. There's nothing like working with an excellent person, and I want them to have every future opportunity they deserve.
If it's dead, it's probably me.
Yeah, but I'm looking at it from the stand point of the hiring company calling for the referral, not getting the person they are looking for (who knows maybe the left, not to mention most companies only allow HR to take those calls) and instead talking to another person who decides to be a dick.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
Perhaps that's a risk, but it doesn't tend to be the way it works in my experience. The ex-employee gives the HR person my contact info and they contact me directly.
If it's dead, it's probably me.
I've known a few people it has happened to, including my father. It's why I separate professional referrals from employment verification.
Unfortunately, if I slash my wrist with my lightsaber it cauterizes instantly. - PurEvil on emo Star Wars plots.
If that's actually legally binding, that's brilliant. I previously worked at a big corporation which had a very serious "don't you dare even dream of giving out a reference" policy. When I would get called for references for former employees which I thought well of, I'd have to come up with creative phrasing and tone to indicate my endorsement without coming right out and saying it. Would have been much easier if there was an optional form for them to sign on their way out the door.
I wonder how well it would actually stick if it were ever brought to court. Signing away personal rights always seems to be a gray area.
XBLive: Ruckus
One of the places that I've worked for actually outsourced employment verification to another company. If anyone called for a reference they would get directed there, to some operator who doesn't have a clue about the guy besides the start and ending date.
I'm like a flashing lightning and a rolling thunder, I'm like a stepping razor
That's great Fletch. You're like an evil genius, my favourite kind of genius.
McChuck wrote:
I've seen numerous occasions where managers have given glowing referrals from some of our most annoying employees. They really just wanted the employee to quit, and so they felt the need to help them get another job.
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last.fm: JayhawkerGWJ
Until they turn on the orbital death rays, of course.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
On the other side of this, I think no one has yet to take a negative referral from me seriously -- they've usually already decided to hire the person and won't actually listen to negatives. In one case that resulted in them getting a drugged out case who immediately filed for disability based on his addiction and never did any work.
Ah well, I warned them...
If it's dead, it's probably me.
*This one knows too much.*
Have you considered a position in our organization?
Don't be saucy with me, Bernaise. - Count DeMonet
FalseGravity - My first blog.
I tried the have a couple weeks vacation saved up so when I gave notice I'd have a cushion. Well, gave my notice, they let me go and didn't pay me for my vacation. They said my vacation was not vested. Whatever that means, I had worked there for 5 years.
IANAL, but at least in some states (California I'm pretty sure -- dunno about Texas) that is totally completely illegal and easily fought in court (as in, soon as their lawyer sees the claim, he'd say "Pay up and let's cut our losses before some judge rips us a new one.")
If it's dead, it's probably me.
If you have stock options, then I have some incredible Evil Lair designs you just might be interested in.
Quintin_Stone wrote:
lunabean wrote:Do you offer dental? Will I get a uniform? What color is it?
Because, when I wear blue, I am like the wind! A hot, Latin wind!
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
Break, like the wind!
(anyone gets the reference, gets a cookie)
Quintin_Stone wrote:
lunabean wrote:I would give 2 weeks no matter what. If the new job does not work out, you could also get your job back. This happened to me once.
I don't think I've ever said this sentence before, but man would I love to hump that butterfly.-- KrazyTaco
One phone call and you're melting like butter over my kettle pop. -- Edwin to Mex
2005 GWJFFL2 Champion
Spinal Tap. I like chocolate chip.
"I can't knife you right now. I have a chair and some pants."