PC Games - The End of an Era?
Eras And Their EndCrysis and Unreal Tournament 3 were released for the PC in November. According to NPD, here are the sales numbers:
Crysis--86,633 (18 days)
Unreal Tournament--33,995 (12 days)How many units did the tenth rated console game sell? 376,843.
This isn't going to be one of those "PC gaming is doomed" posts. It's not. Certain kinds of PC games, though, probably are.
Crysis had tons of buzz and plenty of advertising and it couldn't even get to 100,000 units in almost three weeks. And the development costs must have been huge. Unreal Tournament is a well-established franchise, and it barely broke 30,000 copies.
There's a reason for all this.
The editorial comments from management have been noted at this point.
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I was a little stunned by the low number of purchases but I do agree with his point regarding systems. People just don't feel inclined to upgrade every 6 months or so. The fact that DirectX 10 and Vista has been slow to adopt from the community at large has not helped things much.
Speaking from personal experience, I have delayed upgrading my rig for several months despite the fact that SupCom showed me the error of my ways.
Thoughts? What are the NBD numbers for PC Game sales? Is it fair to compare PC Games sales to consoles?
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That pretty much sums up why I bought an XBOX 360. I got tired of every 2 years putting $500+ into my PC to make it only "mid range", when I could buy a console for less than that and have all the games run smooth and silky for 4 years or more. While I would love to build a monster rig that could handle Crysis and Supreme Commander with ease, I just don't have the budget anymore. The money I put into building that rig, you could buy a console and large screen HD TV (probably less than 32 inches). Factor in the sheer frustration that can/will probably arrive with bugs and glitches on the PC (although, this is starting to happen to console games now), and I just lost the desire to keep up with the computer arms race. Someday I hope I have enough spare cash and time to build that monster PC rig and get back into computer gaming. Until then though, I will be quite content to keep going with my XBOX 360.
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"I may be out of ammo but I ain't out of chainsaw B*TCHES!" - Sinister's warcry for Gears of War
CoD4 has sold well for the PC. TF2 and Orange Box will do well. Crysis suffered from the perception that an upgrade was required to run it. I'm guess that Unreal Tournament suffered a reputation for merciless run and gun gameplay that made it less attractive than the better marketed CoD4 and TF2.
Is there a chance the industry as a whole will end up focusing more on gameplay and polish rather than pushing the graphics envelope?
Nah...
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Last winter, I bought a 42" HD screen and a 360. Total price: $2000. How much would I have spent on a new computer? Probably the same.
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I think the hardware angle has a lot to do with it but only in the last 2 years.
The last 2 years has been so brutal with the developments on PC hardware that developers are shooting themselves in the foot trying to make a "future proof" game. Why? Because the gap between the power of a $1500 PC today with a $1500 PC 2 years ago is %50. Try and make a game that scales well for computers 3-4 years old, you'd have to cut another %50-75 percent.
Today we are on the cusp of the Penryn 45nm quad cores with the bigger dye quad core being the bang for buck workhorse. 2 years ago, the Core 2 Duo's were just released and the single core chips were the workhorse.
Today the 8800GT and the 3870 are the bang for your buck must haves. 2 years ago the waters were muddier. You could go with a X800 - x1800 or the Nvidia equivalent.
So if you look at the benchmarks for most games, it is entirely possible to see a near doubling between the workhorse of 2 years ago to the workhorse of today.
One game, Crysis, tried to make itself future proof and hampered itself since there are other games with in depth experiences that people can run well on their current systems.
The other game, is a decent improvement visually over its predecessor but offers really nothing new. Its competition offers so much more, looks just as good and/or has already sold millions of copies on the xbox360 (halo 3).
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I'm gonna point you to the thread about the DNF teaser and the reaction over the graphics and answer, no. "The industry" will focus on gameplay over graphics the day gamers do.
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In my estimation Microsoft has done more than any other company to suffocate PC gaming. Despite the lip service they pay to DirectX 10, the Games For Windows initiative etc. they seem to be deliberately sabotaging their own efforts with poor implementation and in-house exclusives aimed at the Xbox.
I think the days of the "monster PC rig", as Dr_J puts it, are numbered. I have to admit I did recently build a beast of a PC that's roughly in the top few percent of PCs out there, but the likelihood of my upgrading it any time soon is pretty slim. I think we've reached the point where the graphics arms race is starting to cool down, and that puts the PC at a disadvantage. Its absolute superiority in this arena is no longer as obvious, and as long as Microsoft keeps DirectX 10 a paper tiger this will continue to be the case.
However, I think the PC will for a long time yet be the primary platform for niche styles of gameplay like hardcore simulations, turn based strategy and city building type games. Even adventure games and text based interactive fiction games have a life on the PC, and while they may fly under the commercial radar there are often thriving communities of gamers centered around playing, discussing, modding and creating these games. I just don't see these communities trying to break into the console world. Indie gaming will always be stronger on the PC since the means to develop for it are literally at everyone's fingertips.
PC gaming may become increasingly less commercial over the next several years (MMOs aside), but this will just result in the enthusiast communities of niche gamer/developer communities having more of a presence on the platform.
Despite my optimistic outlook, the whole thing honestly makes me a bit sad. I really don't like the path that gaming has taken since the Playstation 2 era, and I've begun to feel increasingly detached from the mainstream interests. Maybe I'm just not as young as I used to be and my sensibilities have separated from the commercially important demographic. But I grow fearful for the time that the Sid Meiers of this world are being handed bucketfuls of cash to develop first person action-packed Civilization building games exclusively for the Xbox 720.
Well, if it comes to that I guess I'll just fire up DOSBox and rock some Master of Orion while grumbling about these new-fangled Wiimotes and wireless guitar controllers.
Isn't that Moore's Law or some corollary thereof?
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That's a sad truth made all the more poignant by the fact that my current favorite game is three years old and sprite-based.
If I didn't drink, Crom would laugh and cast me out of Valhalla when I die. Peer pressure I can handle, but not when it comes from Crom. -Lobo
I'm a PC guy.
I switched from being a Mac guy the day Total Annihilation was released. Picked the $50 title off the shelf and then grabbed a $1200 P200 off a pallet so I'd have something to play it on. My argument against consoles used to be the online gaming aspect; there wasn't any on the consoles. That's now changed big time. My current gripe against them is the controls (I need a keyboard and mouse) but I can see the day coming where that will probably go away as well. Then what? $500 console and a $1200 display? Same cost as a decent PC rig.
I've built a business around PC gaming and we do OK but the first time some kid walked into the store asking for a controller so he could play Call of Duty 2 on our PC systems I had to laugh. I laughed and then wondered if I made a very expensive mistake. I'm very much worried about the state of PC gaming over the next 5 years. My second store might have a lot more consoles than the single 360 we currently have on the floor.
Now that said, there are currently a pile of awesome PC only games out. Most decent RTSs don't translate well to console and the best ones are exclusives (Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, and World in Conflict to name a few). The Team Fortress 2 experience on the PC is far superior to the console experience. As are most FPS titles (man I hate the snap-to aiming on consoles). But I have to wonder what's coming down the line a couple of years from now.
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I didn't care about Crysis, because (Aside from the stupid name with a y), I knew I wouldn't be able to run it, even if I can run Team Fortress 2 and HL2.
Same thing with Unreal, with the addition that it's more of the same.
Anyone know how Gears of War for PC did? Or Bioshock PC?
I'm just glad that piracy wasn't mentioned.
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The problem is that you are dealing with an entire generation whose only gaming experiences have been consoles. PC's are screwed.
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I should have been more clear. Yes the power doubling every ~2 years is moore's law. However, in this case its more than doubling. A doubling in computer power hasn't corresponded to a doubling in framerate in the past. I may be talking out of my ass, but its my perception me that it usually increases framerates ~30%.
The new machines are achieving framerate increases of ~90% compared to ones of 2 years ago.
Being fangoriously devoured by a gelatinous monster.
Those numbers for Crysis and UT3 are surprisingly low, especially this close to Christmas. As the consoles move closer and closer to matching a (high-end) PC gaming experience, I believe they will dominate sooner or later. It won't be long before most MMOs are made as PC/console hybrids. And I think consoles appeal to a broader market that doesn't want to bother with driver issues, component upgrades, etc.
But I can't see myself being anything other than a PC gamer for the foreseeable future. I'm a geek, and I like crafting my own rig and being able to service any issues it may have as opposed to sending it in for a warranty repair. And since I favor RTS and MMO gaming, everything I want to play is available. That and I just can't justify the financial commitment of both PC and console gaming.
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Don't know if that's true; Atari 2600 was pretty affordable back in the day. It was much cheaper than an Apple ][e
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There's no identifiable in-game graphics to even critique! The thread is a platform for mocking 3DR.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Until games like The Witcher break sales records and games like Crysis flop. Just like the movie industry did around the turn of hte century.
I love Bill Harris and most of the things he says make sense. But I just have to disagree with him on this one. Crysis and UT3 are not PC gaming. They are cheap derivatives that bring nothing new to the sea of games. After plopping down $60 for the Orange Box, I have zero interest in either Crysis or UT3. That's not because PC gaming is dead, but rather because it is flooded with clones and high marketing, low value crud. Now I don't mean to insult anybody's tastes in games here, but aside from 'ultra rad superzor max grap1x!!!!111' what do these games bring to the table?
I find it very telling to look at Steam population stats. Number one game on their stats is Counter-Strike. Not Counter-Strike:Source, but the orginal one. It is currently being played by 210,000 people. In other words, people around the world do not give a hoot about the latest in adaptive skin tone rendering of protagonist's pores.
(@)
Could be. One doubt I have is caused by the fact that my 9 year old plays on both console, portables, the desktop and a laptop, depending on the game. I think he's growing up comfortable with the ideas that games can be good on anything.
Seeing as how Gears of War disappeared off the top ten PC charts the week after it was released, I doubt it did well.
I think no better evidence for the death of PC gaming is the fact that Crysis couldn't even manage 90,000 in sales and yet it could hold the 2nd spot on the PC Sales Charts for three weeks in a row in November.
Also, I wish piracy was mentioned. People keep trying to sidestep the issue, but piracy is easily the largest culprit in why PC games aren't selling as well as they used to. It's exactly why hardware sales for the PSP continues to be high even though software sales have been non-existent: because it's the easiest console on the market to hack in order to play pirated games.
Finally, I hate this "always upgrading" people keep making about computers. Yes, it's more expensive then consoles, but this stuff is always exaggerated. I have the same video card I purchased over a year ago and Crysis is the only game on the market where I can't run everything as high as it goes on my native resolution.
I would think the first rule of PR is to ignore forum people, because they vacillate between crazy and liar. - Elysium
Here are the games I actually finished in 2007 on the PC:
Neverwinter Nights 2
Oblivion
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic
Sam & Max: Episode One
World in Conflict
Portal
Half-Life 2: Episode 2
That doesn't include games I still mean to finish like STALKER, The Witcher, Medieval 2 Total War and the new Company of Heroes expansion. And Hellgate London, but that won't be until next year if/when it's patched to something I could enjoy. The Civ IV series, Lord of the Rings Online, Age of Conan (hee hee), Team Fortress 2. The list goes on.
I think perhaps it may be more accurate to say that single player games are becoming more rare on the PC outside of the RPG genre. As much as I love Bill Harris, the man is not someone who loves multiplayer gaming like many here do. That's going to skew in favor of consoles every time. I don't think two games with lower than expected sales is a compelling enough reason for despair. Near as I can tell, this year has been one of the better ones for PC games and the market doesn't seem any better or worse off than it was before.
Certis beat me to it. - Elysium
The trend of flashier graphics is definitely the trend right now. But this actually give me more reason to stay with PC gaming. There are a lot of good indy or games made across the pond that are still focused on gameplay.
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LobsterMobster wrote:
Look at me I used to buy $500+ videocards at least every 6 months.. I've now been sitting on my 8800GTX's for over a year.. and with little incentive to upgrade.. WoW runs with everything completely maxxed out at 2560X1600 with SLI turned off.. I get decent enough 720P performance out of Crysis in SLI and honestly its not that great a game for me to run out and upgrade to what?
Bioshock I played on the 360.. Orange Box ditto.. I'll probably play Deus Ex 3 on the 360.. as well as CoD 4 when/if I ever get around to it.
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While Gears of Wars tanked on the PC, COD4 seems to be doing reasonably well. Exclusives such as Gears are something that also contribute to the decline in PC gaming. We all want the best and brightest new toy NOW, not a year later. So you scratch that itch by getting on the console and by passing the delayed PC release.
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I can relate to a lot of what's been said so far as a big single player PC fan. There have been tons of games coming out this year, a lot of them I really want to check out, but simply haven't because I'm not willing to drop the money on upgrading just yet. I won't try and represent PC gamers as a whole, but I can definitely say on my end that lack of game purchases is definitely not related to piracy. It's been a combination of system requirements and time available to play.
The one major release I did manage to pick up was Orange Box, because it was a collection of great games that ran perfectly on my system. While I don't look down on games like UT3 and Crysis that stick to generally tried and true game mechanics (I do still enjoy that stuff), the graphics alone are no longer enough for me to justify a purchase. But even with more interesting games like BioShock, while the gameplay may be interesting, if the requirements are too high, I won't be picking it up.
- eric
So far this is something I haven't brought myself to do yet. I still love the PC platform and really believe its the best platform to experience my favorite types of games on. So for now I'll just wait and get to those games when I can afford to. I definitely see that kind of mindset as a dying breed though.
- eric
Console of every generation have sold more games than PCs. I don't think that's news.
I've never been tired of the "PC upgrade arms race" personally, because its never been a race for me. I do most of my upgrading around the same time as the average console cycle. I spend no more than $200-$300 every other year for maybe a new vid card or Ram, and I can play just about anything (Crysis included). It might hlep that I don't play on a 24in monitor at 1600*1400 resolution with 16xAA and 8xAF. I never understood the hassle people associated with upgrading and such. It seems to get easier and cheaper as time goes on.
In terms of cost and value, a good modern PC is still a bit more expensive than a console, but not by as much as it used to be. Also, interms of money spent I wonder how much that is an issue, when you have 300k people paying well over a hundred dollars for Rock Band, Guitar Hero, those blantantly ripoff collector's edition titles, and $60 dollars in general for top of the line games?
I've beat this drum before on another thread, but this is from a somewhat different angle. Based on viewing a bitorrent site or two, there are still a lot of people playing PC games. I saw well over 300,000 people downloading Call of Duty 4, and over 100,000 getting Gears of War. Whether it can be argued on whether these people would buy these games or not, they are playing on PCs...the problem is how they are playing, and its affect on PC gaming in general. I can't believe this has no impact on how the PC is viewed, at least by developers and publishers. Pirated copies don't translate into sales, or even players online so much. When you have so many more players on that aren't buying your game, but still playing on PC, you're not going to be too enthusiastic about making that your lead platform.
"We don't care how we get the money as long as we get it!"
- Eric Hartness, Electronic Arts
Indeed, PC gaming continues to be my favoured platform and I had more than enough to keep me satisfied this year. However, I can't help but feel distress for the future when I constantly see poor sales results for quality games on the PC, making me wonder if poorly localized Eastern European titles and poor, buggy console ports are going to be even more of the norm than they already are. Regardless of the real reason for the slow sales of games like Crysis and UT3, it sends a clear message that putting effort into PC-centric games, or even PC games where the difference in interfaces and controls are taken into account, can't help but make my platform of choice look even shakier.
I would think the first rule of PR is to ignore forum people, because they vacillate between crazy and liar. - Elysium
Regarding Crysis being number two at below 90,000; how are these stats collected? I always worry when I see numbers thrown around like that. It seems like the PC market is a lot more fragmented and difficult to track than the console market. I mean, the people who made these lists, do they take Internet retailers like Amazon into account? Which stores do they have data from? Is it worldwide or specific to one region? Do they add Steam and other online-only sales into their chart? If so which ones? And so forth.
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The death of PC gaming has been heralded for years. Excuse me if I remain skeptical in the face of years of chicken littles.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
For me, it's about what allows me to play games with my wife and daughter (plus on-line friends). The one that fits that need best, at the moment, is World of Warcraft. Multiplayer RPGs and Strategy Games are what dominate the hard drive space here, but I must admit that keeping three PCs up to spec continually is growing old.
If I could get the MMORPG, or any multiplayer RPG, fix from a console unit, plus a health mix of games like Civ 4, Supreme Commander, StarCraft, and the like, I'd probably jump ship, too.
Right now, though, it seems to me that FPS games rule the consoles and, while fun, they aren't my first priority. When this is proven wrong, I'll be there with millions of others.
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