Fear of (character) death

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Kepheus's picture
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Recently, a friend was extolling the virtues of Mass Effect (continuing in his campaign to convince me to buy a 360) and said it was in his top 3 all-time games story-wise along with Indigo Prophecy and something else.

What surprised was the third game wasn't Planescape: Torment. His reply: "I'm at a point where I can't go any further without dying and, as a power gamer, I just can't bring myself to do it."

Given that he plays WoW, I wouldn't think death would be an issue. And, really, if you're not playing some sort of "ironman" mode, you've got save games/points and gameplay mechanics (a la PoP:Sands of Time) to fall back on.

So, is my friend even crazier than I've suspected, or do other people share this same phobia?

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Wait, so he's afraid of dying in Planescape? Because if so, he, like, totally missed the point.

I usually don't like it when my characters die, specially in stuff like Baldur's Gate where they talk to you and whatever. But as you said, we have reloads...

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kaostheory's picture
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I'm with Mex, whenever there's some connection with the character, I don't like to die. In those story-less FPS games, I am as suicidal as they come.

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Swat's picture
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The only way I could see caring if I died or not is if it was some weird hardcore game where death literally meant wasted hours of your life getting your character to that point. At that point though I wouldn't be sad, I'd be pissed.

Then again, I never "become" the character I play, I merely play the character presented to me. I'm sure if I developed some sort of weird connection to my toon I would be more disturbed when I die, but I like to separate the fantasy from reality for the sake of my own sanity

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Quintin_Stone's picture
Location: Cary, NC

The fact that he recognizes he has to die to advance the story and still refuses to... yeah, he's crazier than you suspected.

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I see scenarios like this frequently in our Team Fortress 2 games here. Some guys stay "safe" behind cover afraid to charge the opposing team because they fear getting "killed". You are going to "die" in this game anyway. It is inevitable. So, go with style. If you can take out a key member of the other team or effectively damage their defenses before you die it was worth it. You'll respawn in a few seconds. If you die like a doofus instead, well, so what. Have a good laugh. It's only a game!

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TF2 is a great game for dying. So many ways to go!

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ShadeRaven's picture

In a scenario where death advances the story... yeah... your friend has some issues with the subject that goes beyond normal.

That said, I prefer games that don't trivialize death. Where staying alive amidst chaos and threat speaks to your skill. And even in games like WoW, I take great pride in surviving those encounters that others talk of multiple deaths before overcoming.

Of course, some of the best tales told 'round the PC come from spectacular death events that were shared with friends and/or combatants.

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Danjo Olivaw's picture
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What do you think is implied with the term "power gamer"? How is this the determining factor in his resistance to character death?

Bitchin' avatar, by the way, Kepheus.

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Has he played King's Quest 6? Would that ease him into the idea?

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I played a D&D campaign once where my character fell off a rope bridge in a natural cavern into an abyss and died due to me rolling two 1's in a row. I laughed my ass off and it's still a running joke with my friends about it to this day.

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momgamer's picture
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I play way too many Final Fantasy games to have any real trouble with dramatically necessary death. Stuff like the end of Halo3 with him trapped in that drifting ship bothers me a whole lot more.

wordsmythe wrote:
Has he played King's Quest 6? Would that ease him into the idea?

I was gonna suggest he could play Steel Batallion to get used to it. That one not only "kills" your character if you don't punch out, it will go in and delete your saved game. You learn real fast not to try to ironman your way through a reactor meltdown or critical hit.

Or the pen and paper games "Call of Cthulhu" or "Paranoia". Paranoia is so deadly each character some with six clones of itself at creation because they know you're going to die gruesomely so often you couldn't maintain a session - at least if your GM plays the Computer the way he should be played.

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kaostheory wrote:
I'm with Mex, whenever there's some connection with the character, I don't like to die. In those story-less FPS games, I am as suicidal as they come.

Same here, though maybe a little less attached than either of you. I think I died a fair bit in Torment, maybe because I knew I could.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:
What do you think is implied with the term "power gamer"? How is this the determining factor in his resistance to character death?

He tends to play games by amassing as much power as possible before actually playing out the story. He once levelled way up in Daggerfall without leaving the first town, all by exploiting a bug with sleeping in shops and stealing everything.

I think he can accept characters dying being part of a game, but purposely getting killed --even if you know you'll be resurrected -- might rub up against how much he puts himself into a character.

Paranoia looks like fun, momgamer, except he'd probably want to GM...

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Kepheus wrote:
I think he can accept characters dying being part of a game, but purposely getting killed --even if you know you'll be resurrected -- might rub up against how much he puts himself into a character.

I've run into this breed of power gamer a couple times. Somehow they can divorce themselves entirely from the plot in order to pursue a more powerful character, but still maintain a nearly unbelievable attachment to that character. I don't really understand it, but I think it might sometimes be a more exaggerated version of the "everybody wants to be Superman" drive in many gamers.

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Just sounds like the behavior of a regular old perfectionist. I fight similar urges sometime when they get in the way of me enjoying a game.

All this science I don't understand. It's just my job five days a week.

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Ha! Now I remember a dude in high school that tried to play C&C(I think that was it) with me.

He went crazy because he couldn't stop his tiny soldiers from dying. He'd micromanage them to run waaay out of danger when they got their health bar into the yellow, and the only map I ever saw him win, he ended with a contingent of injured soldiers in a corner of the map. I don't think he played RTSes for very long. I just hope he went into medical school or something similar.

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Grenn's picture
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Mex, that's just about the funniest thing I've ever heard. Doesn't everyone send lone soldiers to defend areas simply to track enemy progress to your door? Their sacrifices were duly respected in the name of furthuring The Cause.

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For the most part, character deaths don't phase me, but in Guild Wars you can earn the title "Survivor" by getting your character to Level 20 without dying. I did that for a few characters and it made for some tense moments. Honestly, it made some of the content a lot more challenging and nerve wracking.

They even have additional tiers of the "Survivor" title, but I only went for the first one.

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ShadeRaven's picture

That's pretty cool, Devil. I came into the MMOs too late for GW, though, or I might have taken up that challenge.

Unfortunately, in WoW, instances seem to be set up such that you are required to die to learn them. Couple that with relatively negligible penalties for it and you get numb to it.

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momgamer wrote:
Or the pen and paper games "Call of Cthulhu" or "Paranoia". Paranoia is so deadly each character some with six clones of itself at creation because they know you're going to die gruesomely so often you couldn't maintain a session - at least if your GM plays the Computer the way he should be played.

Hah, good call. I was going to mention "Paranoia" but you beat me to it. In fact, I think any player that actually "wins" a session has all of their remaining clones killed by the computer anyway out of spite. As for PS:T, I really can't understand the aversion to death. The game opens with the Nameless One waking up in a morgue, for goodness' sake.

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creatureparade's picture
Location: Bellingham, WA or your sister's house.

You know, I've noticed that while I hate it when my supporting characters in RPGs die, it never bothers me as much as it does when an animal in my party dies. It's not that I don't reload if I lose Annah in Planescape, because I do. I think it all comes back to Fallout. From the moment I got Dogmeat in my party, I defended him to the death with Jihadist fury. When my dog dies in a game, I reload just like I would with another party member's death, but it's somehow so much sadder with the dog. It's like I've failed him and myself in some fundamental way.

Or maybe I'm just a big pussy. Does anyone else remember and love Dogmeat?

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Anodyne's picture
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I go well out of my way to save the characters I like in games, and generally play the extreme "good guy" type character whenever possible. For example, I'm playing through Deus Ex again. Even though all-out continuous stealth is too tedious for me, I make every reasonable effort to prevent the deaths of characters who I like. Both NSF and UNATCO troops get the stun baton treatment, and I went through that ridiculous fight in the hotel to save Paul. I don't mind using the conventional lead on the MJ12 guys. If I can't save every protagonist myself from their death when the game might allow me to, it's as if their deaths are my fault even if I would have to do things that I would otherwise consider "unfun."

On the other hand, however, if I find a character is obnoxious, I have no qualms with killing them off or allowing them to die. I think I actually shot that one party member in Fallout 2 who says the same lines over and over again.

creatureparade wrote:
Does anyone else remember and love Dogmeat?

Yes! I must have spent twice as long on that game because I wanted to keep my buddy Dogmeat safe. Sure, he couldn't help carry my metric ton of irradiated garbage or get within ten feet of a chaingun-wielding mutant, but he pledged his life to me just because I had a bitchin' leather jacket. He was pure awesome embodied in canine form.

I find it odd how we more readily empathise with domesticated animals than humans, even in games.

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Quintin_Stone's picture
Location: Cary, NC

To me, there's a difference between permanent loss of an irreplaceable party member and a transitory character death before a resurrection spell (or losing a faceless fungible unit in an FPS). Yeah, I'd reload a game if I lost Dogmeat or another vital party member in Fallout. Not so much in Baldur's Gate when I've got the means to cast or buy a Raise Dead spell.

On the other hand, I rarely used vita chambers in Bioshock. So maybe I'm just full of sh*t.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!

wordsmythe wrote:
I know I'm not terribly cool