I've consistently thought of myself as too old for my own mentality half the time...
Either way, a few problems come up.
"ZOMG! YOUNG PEOPLE ARE IMMATURE!" Please. Old people can kiss my butt if they truly believe that's the case for everyone. Blanket generalizations are something I was hoping some of our older journalists would try to avoid in their pursuit of the truth... all Safer's managed to do as far as I'm concerned is proved himself to be a crotchety old fart sitting in a rocking chair on his porch shaking his fists at the kids on his lawn.
"Just remember that sometimes you need to allow problems to just roll like water off of a duckilama's back." ~Reaper
I've seen both sides of this issue. I'm professional staff at the University of Minnesota Duluth and our employees are students. They're not at all like I was or my peer group. They're very hesitant to commit to something that may well just wind up being another job. It's frustrating because they don't always take it as a priority but when you get one to the level where they view it as a part of their life, they are the best workers I've ever seen.
Guys like Safer need to wise up. They don't need some crabby, old sumbitch growling at them all day. Why not? Who does? Because he'll fire all of them after five years just so he can make another billion dollars in stock options. And people know this. The mentality that you as a person are more important than your job or career is trickling down to every level of our society.
Corporate America needs to wise up. People expect loyalty to be repaid with loyalty. If you burn somebody once, why should they come crawling back?
And if guys like Safer have a problem with me saying something like this, well, I've worked and slaved my ass for years. You know what? I envy those kids.
"If Blizzard announces a subscription fee for Diablo III we will have to build a second Internet to make room for all the complaining." - muttonchop
Corporate America needs to wise up. People expect loyalty to be repaid with loyalty. If you burn somebody once, why should they come crawling back?
And if guys like Safer have a problem with me saying something like this, well, I've worked and slaved my ass for years. You know what? I envy those kids.
I used to have loyalty to my employers. Until I got screwed over one too many times. Now I'm there for a paycheck and that's all. I'll give my absolute best effort while I'm on the clock, that's just my work ethic. But I'm not going to jump every time they say my name and do the whole ass-kissing to get in good with the management routine. It's just a job, I work it so I can afford to have a real life with my girlfriend, her kids, and affording to go to school so I can get a career I actually care about. Bite me, corporate America. When you decided that it was a better idea to fire thousands of employees to gain a percentage point on the market rather than cutting overpaid executives, or cut medical care benefits to your employees, or just generally break the law (unpaid/underpaid overtime, uncompensated additional work/responsibilities, unjust firings due to corporate nepotism, etc) to harm workers, you lost any loyalty you might've ever earned from me.
I'm in college and I see way too many kids coming out of public school that think "Hey, I was an A student, no matter what, even if I fail a test, the teacher should give me the opportunity to be an A student"
The Episcopalians at my High school didn't coddle. If I failed a test, I worked my butt off to pull off a B for the trimester to balance with other A's. That's life and most college kids haven't seen it.
*Legion* wrote:
Ignore boogle, his PCs have hookers inside of them.
You know, all I am going to say on first glance is, wow. And Not world of warcraft for once.
I dont like vast generalizations, and I dont like slackers. My issue is sooner or later we have a job to do, work needs to be completed and the customer has to be taken care of insofar as we care about their business.
Sure, I love the idea of the nap room, and the game room, and the free food and sodas for all employees, but the money has to come from somewhere. There are two choices in virtually all financial decisions, 1) Make More Money or 2) Spend Less Money. To pay for all these perks, or benefits, the funds need to come from somewhere.
Its great to want to take care of all of the employees, but seriously, how is this paid for?
I know why people say companies screw them over, and I also know all this sh*t that employees do to companies because they are (in their own belief) owed something. I think with age comes some maturity, and I hope with that maturity comes some sense of Less Self and More Group oriented thought. Sadly, I see less of that than I did before. But my perspective may be skewed.
The dot-com-bomb occured because cash and ideal was put before long term planning. This article, in my opinion, sounds too close to that same ideology.
Take care of people that take care of you. Dont complicate your business plan, your staff growth options and communicate with people where they are.
Down side, is much of the US has become victim fixated and feels there needs to be some form of compensation for lack of motivation or production.
In my mind, for the moment, I feel old. I dont mean to sound this way, but over time I think some people just want the reward system to be inline with the production system. Ken Lay didnt deserve millions of dollars by killing the future of others, but good, bad or indifferent, Bill Gates may have (in some form or another) brought our collective viewpoint into a better place with how his (and his minions) decisions were made, so I dont have an issue with his wealth. A product was conceived (Or by some peoples opionion, borrowed or stolen), but the public en masse bought it and made a choice.
We need to work to pay bills, and the company needs us to produce so their bills are paid and their customers are pleased enough to use those services again. The equation hasnt changed in thousands of years.
In the Hunter Gatherer world our place was easier to define, well we have complication now. But the answer isnt free lunches to motivate people its for people to want to do more than expect things they havent earned.
But I dont think this will occur. Cynicism, yes, but with experience I say this.
OK, now back to my fantasy world of playing an undead mage cartoon and my preoccupation with items that glow purple that I can equip.
I think Safer has it all wrong. It's not that the generation is being "coddled". They can take criticism all right. But if you tell them something like "I'm disappointed in your performance", they'll tell you: "F*ck you man, I don't need your patronizing; I'd rather work for someone who isn't such a tool."
Corporate America needs to wise up. People expect loyalty to be repaid with loyalty. If you burn somebody once, why should they come crawling back?
And if guys like Safer have a problem with me saying something like this, well, I've worked and slaved my ass for years. You know what? I envy those kids.
I used to have loyalty to my employers. Until I got screwed over one too many times. Now I'm there for a paycheck and that's all. I'll give my absolute best effort while I'm on the clock, that's just my work ethic. But I'm not going to jump every time they say my name and do the whole ass-kissing to get in good with the management routine. It's just a job, I work it so I can afford to have a real life with my girlfriend, her kids, and affording to go to school so I can get a career I actually care about. Bite me, corporate America. When you decided that it was a better idea to fire thousands of employees to gain a percentage point on the market rather than cutting overpaid executives, or cut medical care benefits to your employees, or just generally break the law (unpaid/underpaid overtime, uncompensated additional work/responsibilities, unjust firings due to corporate nepotism, etc) to harm workers, you lost any loyalty you might've ever earned from me.
I think one thing the article barely addresses is the whole shift in attitude of corporate America: in the last 30 to 40 years it's becoming increasingly apparent that employees generally mean very little to their employers. These younger employees are aware of that, and aren't going to give their employer any more loyalty then they feel they are getting in return. So even if you've never specifically been screwed by an employer, there's a general sense that it could happen.
I might work in a unique environment, but I don't see this at all either. Many of my coworkers are within the "millenial" demographic or near it, and we all work in an environment with some pretty hardcore criticism, intermittent long hours, and with management that's usually too swamped to bother coddling. I don't see people quitting or looking for work elsewhere. I just see people busting their humps to do better work. I know this is anecdotal, but I don't really buy what the article is saying.
I watched the show and kept thinking how ridiculous it all was. There's seriously a $50 Billion a year market dedicated to figuring out how to deal with Millennials?! I'll tell you how to deal with them, DON'T HIRE THEM! Sheesh. That'll be $999.95 CAD, thanks.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's an over-reaction to a potentially valid criticism.
Sticking it to the man is great when you're 22, by the time you're 32 and maybe trying to support a family, well, not so much.
I'm pretty sure part of every manager's is pointing out when you're not doing so hot.
I'd rather have a boss who honestly tells me how I'm doing than one who is always blowing sunshine and flowers right up to the point where they fire you.
I'm in a situation right now where I was busting my hump for almost three years to help keep our department alive and now our parent company has decided to "turn things around" for us and "evaluate our profitability." Keep in mind that for the past two years they have given us jack squat. No new hires, no funding for extra development, and only one cost of living raise. And, now, they're coming in to "save the day" which just means they're coming in to scrape out as much money from this barrel as they can before they shut our ass down.
They've managed to drive off every single other person except me who knows anything at all about how the software works that we develop and implement. So, since I'm the only source for the information required to keep the department from going bankrupt (me, a 23 year old college drop out), they've been throwing money at me to keep me to stay.
Well do you know how much loyalty that instills in this young person's work ethic? Their actions have pretty much guaranteed I am going to do the bare minimum to keep my job, which I will probably quit anyway when the money faucet is turned off.
Congratulations, I was only planning on having this job for a few months and stuck it out for almost 3 years because I thought I owed it to my coworkers to keep the boat floating, and now in the course of 4 months I have a nice big "f*ck It" attitude that is associated with everything in this building.
The ages of the brainless dickheads that caused this attitude? All 50+.
This article can blow me. I'm a slacker because old people are selfish.
Location: Sitting uncomfortably close to your girlfriend
Wednesday, November 14th, 2007 - 10:43am
Yesterday, I had to close out an episode of the anime Grenadier I was watching on Youtube because my boss called me into his office to give me a raise.
I'm an Uncle!!! -8/20/07 Scrub wrote:
I buy even though I have 2 of them. I likey the Snakey.
ICO: General Fancypants l Steam: Grenn[GWJ] l WoW: Goquelyrslf, Grendwar l XBLA: GWJ Grenn
I think there's a chicken and egg situation here-- which came first, slackers or corporate indifference to employees? I think there's plenty of blame to go around. We all have stories where we got screwed by our employer. I worked at one employer and got "their highest raise"-- 2.5%. Since I knew many of the HR folk, I asked about raises, and they said they were allowed to give three levels of raises. The high performers, which were few in number, got a 2.5% raise. The standard got a 1.5% raise. The poor performers got a 1% raise. No wonder that after a year I was one of the more senior members of the 200-person firm. Should I stay here with no hope of improvement, or go with this other company for a 35% raise? That wasn't a tough choice.
On the flip side, that kind of behavior allows people like me to hire good people. I've managed to hire a lot of good people because other companies are so fixated on keeping salaries low. The trick is, where does that extra money come from? Ultimately, it comes from the shareholders, which in this case is me. If I reject the ego trip of seeing how big a salary I can get at the expense of my employees, then there's suddenly money available for this.
Are there slackers out there? Sure. I've had to fire a guy because he didn't seem interested in doing his job. We gave him warnings, but they didn't have an effect. It sends a bad message if someone is getting paid the same as others to do the same job, so we let him go. I think he was genuinely surprised-- I guess he thought that we were too nice to fire a family friend. Wrong. Slackers don't deserve the big salary.
Ultimately, it is an economic question. Who will survive, the company that keeps salaries low to spend the money elsewhere, or the company that offers more reasonable salaries? There are examples of both. Wal-Mart, deserved or not, gets a lot of flack for keeping salaries low, but they do fine. Costco takes better care of their employees, and they also do well.
I do think that many corporations have a low opinion of everyone from middle management down. The way they will be proved wrong is if a company outperforms them with higher cost workers. Considering the bloated salaries we see at the top of many large companies, I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that can happen. Take a slice out of top management salaries, give it to strong performers lower down, and profit! Of course, all those big egos at the top may not allow that, but someone coming in and taking market share could be very motivating.
Farscry said pretty much what I think. I've given 110% for every employer I've had when I've been hired and almost all of them have repaid it with backstabbing and lies. At my last employer which was a small local on-site service business, I voluntarily worked 6 days a week for 2.5 years and more than a few times worked 80+ hour weeks. I was a commissioned contractor and because I had to pay all my own expenses, I made almost no money while working this schedule. One night when the server was hacked, I stayed up all night working with one of the owners to rebuild it (literally saving the company) and worked a full shift the next day. Every time they hired some moron with no experience (which they always did because they had no experience either), I was always the one sent to clean up his mistakes and save customers, often with no extra compensation. I was continually promised promotion to a management role that never came. When I reached a point I was so burnt out that I was having digestive and sleeping problems, I asked for a hike in my commission rate so I could drop to 5 days a week. Their response? "Gerry, all you do is complain and we don't see what you've done to deserve a hike that big." I was asking to go from 40% (which I started at) to 50%.
I was running myself ragged for Geek Squad and got myself to the status of the best agent in Canada when they offered me my own store to run. Then after the management changed over at headquarters, they reneged on every promise they made to me, shut the store down after 6 months when I was promised an 18 month pilot window, reassigned me to a job I never would have applied for in the first place and expected me to continue to go "Rah rah Best Buy, go team!" While I still give 110% with my customers (because I would feel bad if I didn't), there are a number of things related to my store I'm supposed to do and don't (like go there between calls) because I hate the culture of the stores and my managers are slimebags. As of now, this place is a paycheck until Stylez and I can get our own company started but the funny thing is that if any of my managers asked me why I don't try that hard and I gave them that and the company's betrayal of me as a reason, they'd just blink at me and go "So?" We now have a problem where our call center and the blue shirts in the store are so bad at their jobs that almost every call I go to ends up with a customer being mad at me because they were improperly quoted our prices or promised things for free I'm supposed to charge for. Their response when I ask what they're going to do about it? "Just deal with it, there's nothing we can do." But every time a customer complains, I'm the one held to account for it.
The problem with business today isn't that young people are lazy, it's that the vast majority of employers treat us as commodities to be used and abused as they see fit. Their argument for not spending a penny more on retaining people and maybe only having 9% profit growth this quarter instead of 10% is "Well, there's plenty more where that came from!" And they wonder why young people couldn't care less about giving it their all for their employers? Make it seem as though the work is appreciated and I think they'll see a big improvement. Sometimes slightly less profit growth and telling your greedy investors to wait a bit is better in the long run. Sorry to rant, this kind of thing just pisses me off.
"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca
Studying generational differences is useful and interesting. Reading what the popular press reports on them is not. What I'm really tired of is people who should no better repeating shallow and trite observations on the millenials as though it were actual research data.
The bottom line is that cosseted children with an unrealistic world view are in for a shock when they realize that their bosses, professors, and other random authority figures aren't going to go out of their way to make things easy for them. Once upon a time, we called people who expected the world to change for their benefit to be spoiled and unrealistic. (Of course, this is coming from someone was a cosseted child and wishes he could still get away with behaving like one. Sadly, we do have to grow up eventually.)
On the other hand, if some of these stereotypes and generalizations about millenials turn out to be valid observations, then people who rely on them for employees / customers / etc., are going to have to change their business plans and market themselves to the unique needs of this group.
By and large however, these kids are going to have to learn that world is a hard, cold, and unforgiving place that does not have their best interest at heart. I hope their lesson is more gentle than mine was.
*Legion* wrote:
There's not enough bandwidth on a thousand Internets to detail what's wrong with that idea.
Yesterday, I had to close out an episode of the anime Grenadier I was watching on Youtube because my boss called me into his office to give me a raise.
As it happens, I watched the first 3 eps of that this weekend, thanks to a Blockbuster rental. I'm on the fence about whether to watch any more. Giant bouncing oogaba will only hold my attention for so long.
I want to back up what most people here have said. The reason there's no employee loyalty any more is because executives butchered the idea of employer loyalty years ago. You made your bed, now you lie in it you old fat f*cks.
I'm been pretty lucky myself. I worked for a contracting company that took care of its contractors, at least until the tech crash of aught-one. Not only benefits, but bench time between contracts. Twice I was on bench, getting paid, for a solid month. My wife, on the other hand, has numerous times been stung by douchebag employers who believed that working there was a precious gift and this gave them the right to treat employees like sh*t.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Good lord, I wouldn't have expected brilliance like that from that nemeslut Quintin Stone!
I want to back up what most people here have said. The reason there's no employee loyalty any more is because executives butchered the idea of employer loyalty years ago. You made your bed, now you lie in it you old fat f*cks.
No more calls. We have a winner.
ranalin wrote:
That'd make this firm perfect if they did that.
Don't hold your breath. As far as I can tell, bench time died about five or six years ago.
*Legion* recognizing greatness wrote:
You would have been correct. So correct as to stifle any further discussion in this thread.
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas... Houston that is...
Wednesday, November 14th, 2007 - 2:50pm
Hehe, I dont know about the rest of you guys but I have supreme Loyalty to my job. I work for ADP and they protect their employees like crazy. I could go into really great detail but I dont want to leak any corp secrets, but they are going through a reorganizational period right now and the best part is no one gets fired... My Division has gone through this and they ended up adding a few people, the work load was crazy for a few months but it has started to pay off.
As I say with most people that complain about their jobs, if it sucks soo bad.. quit! Its not a right to work it's a priviledge.... Of course I have my own horror stories about getting stabbed in the back, for instance I use to work for Sony interactive (97?)while going to College, I was making so much money I decided to Drop out of college and live the good life, but before doing this I asked my boss at the job what he thought my chances for retaining my job. He told me I was one of the hardest workers and did very well... After dumping all my money into a new apartment (cheaper rent) They layed off my whole shift, took us into the room and said there is no work left so they need to save money... I tried to land another job but could not had to cancel my lease and cut my loses and move back home to recover from it.
Lesson learned? Get a freaking college Degree.. so I can bounce to another job quickly, save moeny for rainy days. I have my degree now and experience so if I ever get layed off I can get another job ASAP....
If you just starting off you should not be staying at a job for longer than 2 years anyhow, when your just out of college they can get you cheap. Get 2 years experience, move jobs get a raise, spend another 2 years and get another one. The third job give them the option of giving you a raise or jump. You got to look for a good job, not "develop" one. Thats how I got my current position, they called me about 4 hours after I submitted my resume. I try to be the best worker I can be, so after spending an hour or so surfing the web and watching stupid videos I'm getting to WORK!
Xfire: Pharacon
Tempest says: "A team hat doe snot communicate and talk to each other about what the next move will be is going to lose."
Mex is my hero = "f*ck it, I'll do it. WE'LL DO IT LIVE."
I'm 28, but I've despised the kids they are talking since around the age of 12 or so.
But maybe I've always been too old.
private String paula = "Brillant";
I've consistently thought of myself as too old for my own mentality half the time...
Either way, a few problems come up.
"ZOMG! YOUNG PEOPLE ARE IMMATURE!" Please. Old people can kiss my butt if they truly believe that's the case for everyone. Blanket generalizations are something I was hoping some of our older journalists would try to avoid in their pursuit of the truth... all Safer's managed to do as far as I'm concerned is proved himself to be a crotchety old fart sitting in a rocking chair on his porch shaking his fists at the kids on his lawn.
"Just remember that sometimes you need to allow problems to just roll like water off of a duckilama's back." ~Reaper
I've seen both sides of this issue. I'm professional staff at the University of Minnesota Duluth and our employees are students. They're not at all like I was or my peer group. They're very hesitant to commit to something that may well just wind up being another job. It's frustrating because they don't always take it as a priority but when you get one to the level where they view it as a part of their life, they are the best workers I've ever seen.
Guys like Safer need to wise up. They don't need some crabby, old sumbitch growling at them all day. Why not? Who does? Because he'll fire all of them after five years just so he can make another billion dollars in stock options. And people know this. The mentality that you as a person are more important than your job or career is trickling down to every level of our society.
Corporate America needs to wise up. People expect loyalty to be repaid with loyalty. If you burn somebody once, why should they come crawling back?
And if guys like Safer have a problem with me saying something like this, well, I've worked and slaved my ass for years. You know what? I envy those kids.
"If Blizzard announces a subscription fee for Diablo III we will have to build a second Internet to make room for all the complaining." - muttonchop
Awwww...
I thought this thread was going to be about how to ethically slack at work. Share your hints!
The opposite of Love is not Hate, it is Fear.
#1: Be the boss! Then you can call whatever you're doing "work"!
/ The more you know
The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
I used to have loyalty to my employers. Until I got screwed over one too many times. Now I'm there for a paycheck and that's all. I'll give my absolute best effort while I'm on the clock, that's just my work ethic. But I'm not going to jump every time they say my name and do the whole ass-kissing to get in good with the management routine. It's just a job, I work it so I can afford to have a real life with my girlfriend, her kids, and affording to go to school so I can get a career I actually care about.
Bite me, corporate America. When you decided that it was a better idea to fire thousands of employees to gain a percentage point on the market rather than cutting overpaid executives, or cut medical care benefits to your employees, or just generally break the law (unpaid/underpaid overtime, uncompensated additional work/responsibilities, unjust firings due to corporate nepotism, etc) to harm workers, you lost any loyalty you might've ever earned from me.
I'm in college and I see way too many kids coming out of public school that think "Hey, I was an A student, no matter what, even if I fail a test, the teacher should give me the opportunity to be an A student"
The Episcopalians at my High school didn't coddle. If I failed a test, I worked my butt off to pull off a B for the trimester to balance with other A's. That's life and most college kids haven't seen it.
*Legion* wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJ
You know, all I am going to say on first glance is, wow. And Not world of warcraft for once.
I dont like vast generalizations, and I dont like slackers. My issue is sooner or later we have a job to do, work needs to be completed and the customer has to be taken care of insofar as we care about their business.
Sure, I love the idea of the nap room, and the game room, and the free food and sodas for all employees, but the money has to come from somewhere. There are two choices in virtually all financial decisions, 1) Make More Money or 2) Spend Less Money. To pay for all these perks, or benefits, the funds need to come from somewhere.
Its great to want to take care of all of the employees, but seriously, how is this paid for?
I know why people say companies screw them over, and I also know all this sh*t that employees do to companies because they are (in their own belief) owed something. I think with age comes some maturity, and I hope with that maturity comes some sense of Less Self and More Group oriented thought. Sadly, I see less of that than I did before. But my perspective may be skewed.
The dot-com-bomb occured because cash and ideal was put before long term planning. This article, in my opinion, sounds too close to that same ideology.
Take care of people that take care of you. Dont complicate your business plan, your staff growth options and communicate with people where they are.
Down side, is much of the US has become victim fixated and feels there needs to be some form of compensation for lack of motivation or production.
In my mind, for the moment, I feel old. I dont mean to sound this way, but over time I think some people just want the reward system to be inline with the production system. Ken Lay didnt deserve millions of dollars by killing the future of others, but good, bad or indifferent, Bill Gates may have (in some form or another) brought our collective viewpoint into a better place with how his (and his minions) decisions were made, so I dont have an issue with his wealth. A product was conceived (Or by some peoples opionion, borrowed or stolen), but the public en masse bought it and made a choice.
We need to work to pay bills, and the company needs us to produce so their bills are paid and their customers are pleased enough to use those services again. The equation hasnt changed in thousands of years.
In the Hunter Gatherer world our place was easier to define, well we have complication now. But the answer isnt free lunches to motivate people its for people to want to do more than expect things they havent earned.
But I dont think this will occur. Cynicism, yes, but with experience I say this.
OK, now back to my fantasy world of playing an undead mage cartoon and my preoccupation with items that glow purple that I can equip.
Always vigilient, and dies in the end
I think Safer has it all wrong. It's not that the generation is being "coddled". They can take criticism all right. But if you tell them something like "I'm disappointed in your performance", they'll tell you: "F*ck you man, I don't need your patronizing; I'd rather work for someone who isn't such a tool."
That's not being coddled - that's being proud.
Seconded.
Wow, all my dreams of career stability and corporate ethics have been shattered once again.
*Legion* wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJ
That's what you dream about? Meh.
I'll stick with my dreams of world domination and supermodels.
No, thats what OU Career Services and me pimping myself for internships at the career fair made me yearn for.
*Legion* wrote:
PSN: BoogleGWJ
Employment advice from The Onion. It's like chicken soup for the slacker soul.
Everything can be debated, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's debatable.
--Chuck Klosterman, Fargo Rock City
I think one thing the article barely addresses is the whole shift in attitude of corporate America: in the last 30 to 40 years it's becoming increasingly apparent that employees generally mean very little to their employers. These younger employees are aware of that, and aren't going to give their employer any more loyalty then they feel they are getting in return. So even if you've never specifically been screwed by an employer, there's a general sense that it could happen.
I might work in a unique environment, but I don't see this at all either. Many of my coworkers are within the "millenial" demographic or near it, and we all work in an environment with some pretty hardcore criticism, intermittent long hours, and with management that's usually too swamped to bother coddling. I don't see people quitting or looking for work elsewhere. I just see people busting their humps to do better work. I know this is anecdotal, but I don't really buy what the article is saying.
xbl y3llow5 | steam yellow#5 | PSN ForrestTheWicked
I watched the show and kept thinking how ridiculous it all was. There's seriously a $50 Billion a year market dedicated to figuring out how to deal with Millennials?! I'll tell you how to deal with them, DON'T HIRE THEM! Sheesh. That'll be $999.95 CAD, thanks.
XBL: MikeMac75
I suddenly feel all inspired by my self-employed slacker existence...
great article... it's printed out and sitting on the back of my office door
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's an over-reaction to a potentially valid criticism.
Sticking it to the man is great when you're 22, by the time you're 32 and maybe trying to support a family, well, not so much.
I'm pretty sure part of every manager's is pointing out when you're not doing so hot.
I'd rather have a boss who honestly tells me how I'm doing than one who is always blowing sunshine and flowers right up to the point where they fire you.
I'm in a situation right now where I was busting my hump for almost three years to help keep our department alive and now our parent company has decided to "turn things around" for us and "evaluate our profitability." Keep in mind that for the past two years they have given us jack squat. No new hires, no funding for extra development, and only one cost of living raise. And, now, they're coming in to "save the day" which just means they're coming in to scrape out as much money from this barrel as they can before they shut our ass down.
They've managed to drive off every single other person except me who knows anything at all about how the software works that we develop and implement. So, since I'm the only source for the information required to keep the department from going bankrupt (me, a 23 year old college drop out), they've been throwing money at me to keep me to stay.
Well do you know how much loyalty that instills in this young person's work ethic? Their actions have pretty much guaranteed I am going to do the bare minimum to keep my job, which I will probably quit anyway when the money faucet is turned off.
Congratulations, I was only planning on having this job for a few months and stuck it out for almost 3 years because I thought I owed it to my coworkers to keep the boat floating, and now in the course of 4 months I have a nice big "f*ck It" attitude that is associated with everything in this building.
The ages of the brainless dickheads that caused this attitude? All 50+.
This article can blow me. I'm a slacker because old people are selfish.
Letters to the Internet
Yesterday, I had to close out an episode of the anime Grenadier I was watching on Youtube because my boss called me into his office to give me a raise.
I'm an Uncle!!! -8/20/07
Scrub wrote:
ICO: General Fancypants l Steam: Grenn[GWJ] l WoW: Goquelyrslf, Grendwar l XBLA: GWJ Grenn
Amen.
Xbox Live: JayhawkerGWJ
last.fm: JayhawkerGWJ
I think there's a chicken and egg situation here-- which came first, slackers or corporate indifference to employees? I think there's plenty of blame to go around. We all have stories where we got screwed by our employer. I worked at one employer and got "their highest raise"-- 2.5%. Since I knew many of the HR folk, I asked about raises, and they said they were allowed to give three levels of raises. The high performers, which were few in number, got a 2.5% raise. The standard got a 1.5% raise. The poor performers got a 1% raise. No wonder that after a year I was one of the more senior members of the 200-person firm. Should I stay here with no hope of improvement, or go with this other company for a 35% raise? That wasn't a tough choice.
On the flip side, that kind of behavior allows people like me to hire good people. I've managed to hire a lot of good people because other companies are so fixated on keeping salaries low. The trick is, where does that extra money come from? Ultimately, it comes from the shareholders, which in this case is me. If I reject the ego trip of seeing how big a salary I can get at the expense of my employees, then there's suddenly money available for this.
Are there slackers out there? Sure. I've had to fire a guy because he didn't seem interested in doing his job. We gave him warnings, but they didn't have an effect. It sends a bad message if someone is getting paid the same as others to do the same job, so we let him go. I think he was genuinely surprised-- I guess he thought that we were too nice to fire a family friend. Wrong. Slackers don't deserve the big salary.
Ultimately, it is an economic question. Who will survive, the company that keeps salaries low to spend the money elsewhere, or the company that offers more reasonable salaries? There are examples of both. Wal-Mart, deserved or not, gets a lot of flack for keeping salaries low, but they do fine. Costco takes better care of their employees, and they also do well.
I do think that many corporations have a low opinion of everyone from middle management down. The way they will be proved wrong is if a company outperforms them with higher cost workers. Considering the bloated salaries we see at the top of many large companies, I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that can happen. Take a slice out of top management salaries, give it to strong performers lower down, and profit! Of course, all those big egos at the top may not allow that, but someone coming in and taking market share could be very motivating.
XBox Live: PoppinfreshGWJ
LobsterMobster wrote:
Oddly enough, this one came out today.
XBox Live|Tshirts|My Music|GameFly|xfire
Farscry said pretty much what I think. I've given 110% for every employer I've had when I've been hired and almost all of them have repaid it with backstabbing and lies. At my last employer which was a small local on-site service business, I voluntarily worked 6 days a week for 2.5 years and more than a few times worked 80+ hour weeks. I was a commissioned contractor and because I had to pay all my own expenses, I made almost no money while working this schedule. One night when the server was hacked, I stayed up all night working with one of the owners to rebuild it (literally saving the company) and worked a full shift the next day. Every time they hired some moron with no experience (which they always did because they had no experience either), I was always the one sent to clean up his mistakes and save customers, often with no extra compensation. I was continually promised promotion to a management role that never came. When I reached a point I was so burnt out that I was having digestive and sleeping problems, I asked for a hike in my commission rate so I could drop to 5 days a week. Their response? "Gerry, all you do is complain and we don't see what you've done to deserve a hike that big." I was asking to go from 40% (which I started at) to 50%.
I was running myself ragged for Geek Squad and got myself to the status of the best agent in Canada when they offered me my own store to run. Then after the management changed over at headquarters, they reneged on every promise they made to me, shut the store down after 6 months when I was promised an 18 month pilot window, reassigned me to a job I never would have applied for in the first place and expected me to continue to go "Rah rah Best Buy, go team!" While I still give 110% with my customers (because I would feel bad if I didn't), there are a number of things related to my store I'm supposed to do and don't (like go there between calls) because I hate the culture of the stores and my managers are slimebags. As of now, this place is a paycheck until Stylez and I can get our own company started but the funny thing is that if any of my managers asked me why I don't try that hard and I gave them that and the company's betrayal of me as a reason, they'd just blink at me and go "So?" We now have a problem where our call center and the blue shirts in the store are so bad at their jobs that almost every call I go to ends up with a customer being mad at me because they were improperly quoted our prices or promised things for free I'm supposed to charge for. Their response when I ask what they're going to do about it? "Just deal with it, there's nothing we can do." But every time a customer complains, I'm the one held to account for it.
The problem with business today isn't that young people are lazy, it's that the vast majority of employers treat us as commodities to be used and abused as they see fit. Their argument for not spending a penny more on retaining people and maybe only having 9% profit growth this quarter instead of 10% is "Well, there's plenty more where that came from!" And they wonder why young people couldn't care less about giving it their all for their employers? Make it seem as though the work is appreciated and I think they'll see a big improvement. Sometimes slightly less profit growth and telling your greedy investors to wait a bit is better in the long run. Sorry to rant, this kind of thing just pisses me off.
"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca
Studying generational differences is useful and interesting. Reading what the popular press reports on them is not. What I'm really tired of is people who should no better repeating shallow and trite observations on the millenials as though it were actual research data.
The bottom line is that cosseted children with an unrealistic world view are in for a shock when they realize that their bosses, professors, and other random authority figures aren't going to go out of their way to make things easy for them. Once upon a time, we called people who expected the world to change for their benefit to be spoiled and unrealistic. (Of course, this is coming from someone was a cosseted child and wishes he could still get away with behaving like one. Sadly, we do have to grow up eventually.)
On the other hand, if some of these stereotypes and generalizations about millenials turn out to be valid observations, then people who rely on them for employees / customers / etc., are going to have to change their business plans and market themselves to the unique needs of this group.
By and large however, these kids are going to have to learn that world is a hard, cold, and unforgiving place that does not have their best interest at heart. I hope their lesson is more gentle than mine was.
*Legion* wrote:
informationgames.info
As it happens, I watched the first 3 eps of that this weekend, thanks to a Blockbuster rental. I'm on the fence about whether to watch any more. Giant bouncing oogaba will only hold my attention for so long.
I want to back up what most people here have said. The reason there's no employee loyalty any more is because executives butchered the idea of employer loyalty years ago. You made your bed, now you lie in it you old fat f*cks.
I'm been pretty lucky myself. I worked for a contracting company that took care of its contractors, at least until the tech crash of aught-one. Not only benefits, but bench time between contracts. Twice I was on bench, getting paid, for a solid month. My wife, on the other hand, has numerous times been stung by douchebag employers who believed that working there was a precious gift and this gave them the right to treat employees like sh*t.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
Impressive! I'm doing the same minus bench time. That'd make this firm perfect if they did that.
Executives that take advantage of hard working enthusiastic young workers is a big reason why there's a slack in ethics.
Gamer Tag: Rantyr
It was easier back in 98-99, when the tech industry was through the roof.
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
No more calls. We have a winner.
Don't hold your breath. As far as I can tell, bench time died about five or six years ago.
*Legion* recognizing greatness wrote:
Hehe, I dont know about the rest of you guys but I have supreme Loyalty to my job. I work for ADP and they protect their employees like crazy. I could go into really great detail but I dont want to leak any corp secrets, but they are going through a reorganizational period right now and the best part is no one gets fired... My Division has gone through this and they ended up adding a few people, the work load was crazy for a few months but it has started to pay off.
As I say with most people that complain about their jobs, if it sucks soo bad.. quit! Its not a right to work it's a priviledge.... Of course I have my own horror stories about getting stabbed in the back, for instance I use to work for Sony interactive (97?)while going to College, I was making so much money I decided to Drop out of college and live the good life, but before doing this I asked my boss at the job what he thought my chances for retaining my job. He told me I was one of the hardest workers and did very well... After dumping all my money into a new apartment (cheaper rent) They layed off my whole shift, took us into the room and said there is no work left so they need to save money... I tried to land another job but could not had to cancel my lease and cut my loses and move back home to recover from it.
Lesson learned? Get a freaking college Degree.. so I can bounce to another job quickly, save moeny for rainy days. I have my degree now and experience so if I ever get layed off I can get another job ASAP....
If you just starting off you should not be staying at a job for longer than 2 years anyhow, when your just out of college they can get you cheap. Get 2 years experience, move jobs get a raise, spend another 2 years and get another one. The third job give them the option of giving you a raise or jump. You got to look for a good job, not "develop" one. Thats how I got my current position, they called me about 4 hours after I submitted my resume. I try to be the best worker I can be, so after spending an hour or so surfing the web and watching stupid videos I'm getting to WORK!
Xfire: Pharacon
Tempest says: "A team hat doe snot communicate and talk to each other about what the next move will be is going to lose."
Mex is my hero = "f*ck it, I'll do it. WE'LL DO IT LIVE."