Jeanne d'Arc, I hate you...
Saturday, November 3rd, 2007 - 1:21pm
... because you've spoiled me forever.
In the last few weeks, I've played FINAL FANTAST TACTICS and DISGAEA on the PSP, and both of them so pale in comparison to JDA that it makes me sad.
FFT is nothing but the original PS1 game ported over with fancy new anime cut-scenes. There's nothing WRONG with the game, of course, and I had lots of fun memories of playing it back in the day... but this game doesn't even seem as fun as FFTA for the GBA. The graphics are dated and the text is tiny... yet I see these huge 90%+ reviews on metacritic, and I wonder if nostalgia is really driving this praise for this re-released game.
I never played Disgaea on the PS2, so this is at least new to me. I'm not DISliking it right now... but it suffers from some of the same problems as FFT-- small text, not optimized for the PSP, etc. I think the other thing that is losing me with Disgaea is that it seems so effing complicated and I don't find the game explaining what I'm supposed to be doing. Making new characters, the "dark assembly," the fact that every single item has different stats, etc. It's constantly got me wondering if I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. The first "mid-boss" battle wasn't that hard, except for the fact that my entire party was instantly killed before I even thought to destroy the "geo-rocks" or whatever theyre called.
That said, I'm still curious to see what happens next. The story is amusing in a way that only wacky japanese anime can be. The static dialog boxes are a bit weak, presentation-wise, but at least it has some charm.
I dunno. Am I being too picky? I know JDA isn't the greatest game ever, but I found it to be such a perfect little treat-- great graphics, good difficulty curve, anime cut scenes, great story-- that I just can't get into these others.
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You should play Advance Wars =)
The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
Me no likey Advance Wars, but me likey JDA and FFTA mucho.
I haven't finished JDA yet, so I haven't experienced what Matt is talking about, but I'm not surprised to hear it. JDA is really, really good.
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ha....ha...hahahahahaha...... *sniff*
good try, man. But seriously...
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The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
Hey now, I like Advance Wars. It's just a different style of TBS.
When I eventually grab a PSP, Jeanne D'Arc is way high on my list of most-wanted games, eclipsed only by FFT (because I love that game so much, and a new & solid translation of the script will make replaying it a fantastic experience for me!).
Disgaea can be quite confusing, but once you get all the nuances down it is great. I recommend heading over to gamefaqs to take a look at a tutorial just to get a really good grasp on what all the little things are. It can be alot to take in, but well worth it when you start making awesome weapons and characters.
"Uranus is positioned for summer surprises." - from Tarot.com's mailing list
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I tried checking gamefaqs, but i didnt find anything to help the "newbie" get started... just a lot of min/maxing charts.
I want to like DISGAEA, but it's hard to do so when the game makes absolutely no effort to TEACH you how to play. I went through the first 6-8 battles with just the two main characters and the three penguins. Am I supposed to be building a party? Which classes should I use? What advantage to spending more mana for the "normal" vs "incompetent" guys? Once I got to the guys who continually cast "hell pepper" on me, everyone in my party went down in one or two hits (except Laharl, who was by far more powerful than everyone else). Am I supposed to be constantly grinding these guys on the early levels? I did ok by myself until that damn dragon comes out and does the stupid "bloody talons" on me constantly.
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From what I've read, they made some changes for the worse when they ported Disgaea. For instance, I've heard that now only the character that lands the killing blow gets XP, which makes it really hard to level up weaker characters. It is a complicated game with a high learning curve, and I think there's a help section but I don't know how much actual help it is.
Matt, if you post specific questions I'll try to help you best I can from how I remember the PS2 version.
Normal characters start out with either 0 or 1 bonus point (I forget which), whereas Incompetent start out with -5. You need to allocate these points before you create them, and they strongly influence the growth rate for those stats on that character. So while -5 might not seem like a lot, down the line it can snowball into -500. Also when you're transmigrating a character the "quality" will determine how much skill experience they'll get to keep (characters gain experience in a skill every time they use it). If their experience in a particular skill drops too low, they'll forget it. So doing high-quality transmigration between classes is the best way to teach a character new skills that their main class normally doesn't learn.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
i'm not sure about XP, but i know mana is only earned by the "finisher."
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double trouble
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Disgaea struck me as intended for people who really get off on powerlevelling. Which I probably would be, if I were unemployed and unmarried. As is, I'm looking forward to starting Jeanne D'Arc next time I'm travelling... Too bad, because I loved the art style for that game.
JDA is awesome... you'll definitely enjoy it.
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That's always been what's turned me away from the Nippon Ichi games in the end. I really had fun with FFTA. It being portable certainly helped. But there is no way I can see myself duping as many hours into a game as I did with that game. I played it almost 100 hours. It was crazy. And a lot of that time was spent power leveling and earning skills, etc. I did the same thing with Tactics Ogre as well. I can't see myself doing that again.
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I's kind of sad to say, but I think ultimately I'm going to have to give Disgaea a pass. It's just too damn complicated for me (he says, after just being forced to go inside an "item" and fight monsters... ooooohhhhhkay...).
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I dunno, I was really tickled the first time I entered "ABC Gum" world.
Of course, I put hundreds of hours into Disgaea to get the nuances. Like I took a high-grade item that gives boosts to all stats, loaded it up with "specialists" to boost mana and XP gain, then leveled it up till it gave +2000 to each stat. Then whenever I wanted to level up a new character I'd give that to them, and suddenly a level 1 could go toe-to-toe with a level 200, and gain 50 levels with a one-hit kill.
But that there is some serious time investing and number crunching. If those two things don't appeal to you, you might want to play through Disgaea once for the excellent story and then give it up.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
CAN you play through the main story mode WITHOUT grinding/min-maxing?
That's my main concern. I spent like 45 minutes last night trying to level grind some new characters up to a paltry 4th level (a mage and a warrior). I sent them out during that "white death" mission and again, instant kill with the frigging "hell pepper." Even Etna sucks, getting killed in two hits. Laharl is like twice as powerful as everyone else (level 9 or 10) and he does OK, but then it's usually just him against everyone else. I finally managed to beat that mission and get to chapter 3, but they force you into "item world," again without explaining anything very well. I used the "exit" item and got myself out of there. Not sure if I want to go back in again.
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You don't have to grind MUCH, but it sounds like you could use a little if those little gremlin dudes are giving you trouble. Etna generally does suck. In fact, most of the "feature characters" suck except for Laharl. They aren't supposed to be uber characters that are far better than your random created soldiers, else there'd be no reason to use anything else. If you're having trouble, try putting characters next to Laharl (one on either side and one behind) when he attacks. Sometimes you'll get a combo, which does some nice extra damage and may or may not help level up the other characters in the combo (in the PS2 version it would but I'm kind of confused about the changes they might have made in the PSP version). You have a few options for dealing with Hell Pepper. Putting out characters with high resistance will lower the total damage inflicted by the spell, keeping healers nearby to heal the injured helps immensely, and of course if you can, try killing the monsters before they can cast it. If range is a problem, try putting one character directly next to the base panel, then summon Laharl but don't move him. Have the first character pick up Laharl and throw him in the direction of the enemy. It'll extend his range significantly since he'll be able to move once he lands. You can actually chain throws like this by making a big conga line leading right to your base panel and stacking everyone up on top of the first person in line.
Just don't throw prinnies.
They explode.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
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Long time lurker, first time poster.
The game mechanics for the PSP Disgaea are exactly the same as the PS2 version. Lobster, not sure where you got the idea that only the killing blow person gets exp, that is not true and I just confirmed it on my PSP version. Team attacks work exactly the same as they did before, everyone involved will get a certain portion of exp on the kill.
Matt, different strokes for different folks I guess. I thought JDA was very 'thin' and suffered from a dire lack of tactical options and character customization. It was beautifully presented but I tired of it halfway through. I can certainly understand your frustration with Disgaea, though. If you've never played before it can certainly be quite daunting, but that's the price you pay for having a lot of depth (though I admit they could have done a better job of explaining some of the more basic concepts). I have quite a bit of time in the PS2 version so I can offer advice if you have any specific questions.
I love SRPG's and I'm pretty happy to see the PSP has so many choices (even more now with Warhammer coming soon!). Everyone should be able to find something they like.
Nice first post, vanityfair. I got the idea of the XP changes from RPGamer's review.
I agree with you about the Disgaea/Jeanne D'Arc comparison. Certainly Disgaea is harder to pick up, but if you get into it I think it has much more replay value, which is what I look for in a portable game and TRPG.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
Can't blamecha!
I mean, look at her there.
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Thank you.
I see where the confusion lies....technically, RPGamer is correct that only the person landing the killing blow gets the exp, if no one else is involved in the attack. It was the same in the PS2 version. Team attacks are as I described, and in fact are one of the few ways to level up new characters early on.
I love the whole 'meta-game' of Disgaea, where you're practically invited to abuse the system if you want to beat the highest level optional bosses. And being able to turn off attack animations is a godsend...if I had to sit through another eleventy billion Winged Slayers I would've put out my eyes.
....that movie rocked. At least until Dustin Hoffman showed up.
Yep... you're right. JDA scratched my itch for many reasons. First, since it was designed specifically FOR the PSP, it looks gorgeous (in game AND the anime cut scenes) and has everything proportioned perfectly (including the on screen text). Second, whenever a new concept was introduced, the game walked you through it with very helpful tutorial screens. I always felt that the difficulty curve was appropriate, and I never felt lost for what I was supposed to be doing. And third... it was just complex ENOUGH to keep me happy. I hated FFT's job system, having to spend hours randomly combining jobs and hoping you'll get the few "uber" characters you need to beat the game. JDA's skill system allowed for enough powergaming to satisfy me. I got 40 solid hours of quality entertainment out of it, and while I have no desire to really replay the game, that's fine with me-- 40 hours is plenty of time to spend on any one game for me.
I can see why other people long for the complexity, but I have no desire to grind and min-max for hours on end just for the sake of doing so. My only real BEEF with DISGAEA is that it does a horrible job of telling you HOW TO PLAY the game. There's absolutely NO sense of when/why/how I should make new party members, no instructions on how much mana to spend on them, no clue as to what kind of level you should be to tackle each stage, etc. I suppose for some the appeal lies in the exploration... I just really don't like a game that requires you to read a FAQ before playing. The presentation is pretty weak, too... esp. for a PS2 game. Static talking-heads, unskippable cut-scenes, etc.
Those dang "next episode" teasers are pretty hilarious, though.
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Matt, I agree with most of what you say. Your criticisms are certainly valid. People are different and expect different things from the games they play. I'm the OCD type who will spend 200+ hours exploring every nook and cranny a game has to offer and Disgaea scratches that itch perfectly, but I can certainly see where that wouldn't be so appealing to others. I also didn't mean to imply that JDA was a bad game, per se, because it certainly isn't. I just prefer Disgaea.
BTW in Disgaea, you CAN skip the cutscenes. When you choose whatever map you go to there is a 'skip story' option
Dangit, vanityfair, you're being entirely too reasonable for a new poster disagreeing with the point of a thread. Don't you understand that you're supposed to start with vindictive screeds concerning the parentage of all who oppose you?
If we don't see at least a 'more like Jeanne d'FART!' or 'if you don't like Disgaea, you must be gay-a!', you'll have to leave for the Gamefaqs forums to learn correct post etiquette.
Everything can be debated, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's debatable.
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Disregard everything that crazy vegetable* is telling you.
(*fun fact-- he's actually a fruit!)
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