What's a little genocide between friends?
Wednesday, October 10th, 2007 - 1:42pm
OK, so let me get this straight... We're fighting to spread democracy, yet we're antagonizing one of the only things even resembling a democracy in the middle east (and another in South America, for good measure), while we ally ourselves with repressive tyrants in Saudi Arabia and Egypt. That much, I can follow. But now we won't even say that another nation once committed freakin genocide based entirely on the idea that it'll make our "friend" sad?
Hey, the US is pretty buddy buddy with Germany, why don't we just say that whole Holocaust hooplah never happened, too?
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What are we doing to Israel?
Fedaykin98 wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
What I don't get is why Turkey is so upset and defensive about something that happened almost a hundred years ago. What the heck is up with that, anyway?
Maybe because they still get headlines about their treatment of minorities?
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As someone who lived for several years in Armenia, is married to an Armenian Russian woman, and is familiar with the language, customs, and culture, I can attest to the relevance of the claims. Like for many other small nations, the theme of historical martirdom and victimhood at the hand of a larger opressor is strong in its national psyche. The theme of 1915-1917 genocide has the same potency for them as the Holocaust for the Jews. Every year, April 24 is dedicated to mourning. There are monuments and churches all over the country dedicated to the victims of the event. Here is the one in Yerevan, considered a sacred ground. I was there countless times.
That said, however, absolutely do not see why this resolution needs to be introduced now. As it was mentioned in the articles, it is campaigned for by Armenian American lobby in South California. Armenian diaspora in USA is very well organized, connected, well-heeled, and both well-integrated and very passionate about preserving the heritage (language, Orthodox Christianity etc).
At the same time, however, they're much more pugnacious on the international issues than their folks back in their historical homeland. There is no doubt that the "community leaders" are lobbying for the resolution hot on the heels of the similar measure passed recently in EU, and see this as the right moment to thumb the nose of a historical enemy -- with whom they technically have no axe to gring anymore whatsoever.
People back in Armenia are much more pragmatic and humble about this kind of issues now. Millenia-old animocities towards Turkey and Iran have largely stopped to matter, as the commerce with them is developing at a lively pace, and common alliances and regional security goals unexpectedly spring up (such as keeping the Azeris in line). I yet have to read the local press, but I am sure that down-home Armenians feel uneasy about this resolution brouhaha. The way I see this resolution being supported by the Congressional Democrats (apart from pandering to their Californian lobby) is an elegant way to undermine Bush's Iraqi war effort by predictably rousing Turkey into withdrawing their logistical support of the campaign.
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I would also like to see the US Congress pressure the Japanese into acknowledging the sexual enslavement of Chinese, Koreans, and others. For that, however, I will not hold my breath.
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Changed that a bit for you. The effort could backfire though, and backfire badly.
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One of the other countries that does not acknowledge the Armenian Genocide as a bona fide genocide is Israel, which is a level of scumbag hypocrisy most people can only aspire to. The UK doesn't use the magic G-word either.
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Yeah, I think they call it "population change."
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Spore
Unless I misremember my lectures on the issue, I'm fairly sure congress rebuked Japan quite strongly when their current tard-tastic foreign minister tried to deny it happened.
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
President Bush defers to Turkey regarding the mass killings of Armenians in World War I. Aasif Mandvi gives a lesson on revisionist history as it relates to American allies.
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See, Turkey is upset first of all, because according to their research, that is currently still heavily debated and disregarded by most historians, what happened was not a genocide.
Second, and I think this is more important, if the Turkey would acknowledge that what happened was a genocide, they will face even further research to determine, who was responsible, which in turn could shed a bad light on some of their more respected historic figures, and, more important for the current legislation, they will probably have to pay reparations to the armenians.
What is boils down to is, that Turkey declares this as an internal affair, like China declares the Tibet-Conflict an internal affair, and demands that others have no saying in these matters. To them it is akin to the European Union declaring the purging of the native americans a genocide, which would of course cause quite a diplomatic stir wrt to the diplomatic connections between the EU and the US.
No hay banda!
That may be so, but that has no bearing on whether or not it really happened and whether or not it was genocide.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
Hey, why doesn't the US just sort of admit that already?
Elysium: The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid.
XBL: E Munnie
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because we're "The Good Guys", didn't you get the memo?
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
Your contraction obscures your tense!
Elysium: The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid.
XBL: E Munnie
elementsofmeaning.blogspot.com
Obfuscation trumps!
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
I don't think anything like that would be a big deal in the U.S. Kids are taught in schools here that the government treated the Indians shabbily. That's why they're given the hugely valuable gambling concessions. Acknowledging that isn't a problem so long as the native americans don't start asking for their territory back.
Don't mistake explanation for an excuse. It was a genocide, they are arguing semantics here.
See, and that is exactly why it is not going to happen officially. The US legislation does not want to pay reparations of any kind, that the native americans will demand for sure.
No hay banda!
They can demand whatever they want, but that doesn't mean they're going to get it. As Bill Clinton showed during his presidency with his various public apologies, acknowledgment of past sins of the U.S. government has no real cost and is often excellent PR with the descendants of the victims. Reparations aren't necessarily part of the deal.
Beyond that, how can Europe criticize us for treatment of the native Americans? The English, French, and Spanish killed a whole bunch of them before the U.S. was created.
Good point on the Clinton apologies. I still contend that we really shouldn't underestimate the capacity of other folks to forgive us for acting like asses so long as we stop acting like asses. I've, personally, witnessed this capacity in far more places than not. Believe it or not, the rest of the world isn't nearly as petty as we are.
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Don't forget that doing so will likely cut off supplies routes to the troops in Iraq, Frane did something similiar a while back and Turkey basically told the to get the hell out of their country.
If they are using this as an end run to end the war, why not just cut off funding instead of trying to sneak in the back door like a bad prison cell mate?
"Also, I have four legs and am covered in wool. Baa!" *Legion* reveals his inner furry.
Because they won't cut the funding off? They just voted more money in.
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