GWJ Parenting: Night Time Screaming
Ok, I'm completely burned out from lack of sleep and need some advice from the other GWJ parents...
My son (19 month old toddler) never had a problem going to bed or nap time. We had no trouble telling when he was tired, and he recently learned to say "Nite nite" when he was tired or when we were tucking him in. We had a consistent night time routine; bath, brush your teeth, lay down, activate the teddy bear that plays "Lullaby" and the parents tip toe out the room and close the door. There was never really a problem... until this past Friday.
Now, any time we go to put my son to sleep he is putting up a violent fight. He'll start screaming bloody murder at the top of his lungs as soon as we enter his room. If we try and put him in his bed, he'll flip and twist himself until he either bangs his head against something or falls out of his toddlerbed making him cry even louder. He just won't lie down at all and go to sleep.
My wife & I have tried that "Ferberizing" thing, where you leave him to cry and scream and work it out on his own but it's not working well. He's staying up for hours screaming his head off, banging on his bedroom door until he eventually passes out. The past few nights, things have escalated to where he's getting up several times throughout the night screaming or even waking up instantly if we walk past his door. The only way we've been able to stop the crying is by letting him out of his room where he will instantly sprint out of his room into ours, climb the bed and instantly fall asleep between my wife & I. Obviously, this isn't an ideal situation but we really don't know what to do.
My wife & I have no idea what caused this to suddenly happen and we are really worn down. She's ten weeks pregnant so the usual mood swings compounded with our collective lack of sleep have made for some rather tense situations around the house. We also live in a Duplex with a postal worker that goes to sleep at 9PM and leaves for work at 4AM. I'm sure the last thing he wants to deal with is to hear a screaming kid through our shared wall.
So please, PLEASE Goodjer parents, give us some advice so that everyone can start sleeping through the night again.
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt
Witchlight Cycle: Sithis of the Thelis'Thale Clan, Dragonborn Paladin of Moradin



I don't have much advice but you do have my sincere sympathy.
From what I've read, there are a hell of a lot of sleep strategies that fall under the umbrella of Ferberizing. I think a lot of them would have you go in to soothe the kid short of going a few hours.
What about somebody sleeping on the floor in his room with him?
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Re: the initial bad reaction, it sounds like he is having an adverse reaction to the room because he has a strong negative association with it due to stressful bedtimes. You could try playing with him during the day in the room (i.e. when he's not expected to sleep in it), to try to get positive connotations back. Or maybe you could try and get him to choose some new stuff to go in his room, e.g pillows, rugs, cot bumpers, duvets, pyjamas. That might help.
As far as the night time forays into your bed, I must say that we just let ours sleep in the bed when this happened. My wife was pregnant during this time also, and I needed to go to work, so I just moved into the other room and junior slept with Mummy when he woke up. You do what works for you. Or wait till he falls asleep in your bed and transfer him back.
It sounds like you have his door locked, so have you tried leaving it open? He might hate the idea that you are locked away from him. Or try the moving chair thing, where you start the chair off next to his bed, and move it a bit every night until you are outside the door. That really worked for me, and I've got a 2yo and a 4yo sleeping in the same room.
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Tough one. I've been there with my daughter - there were some seriously ridiculous bedtimes I remember. I'll be honest and say there were night I was not at my best where I barked at her (I try not to ever raise my voice to the kids and remain robotically calm in the face of insanity).
In my experience with my own kids (and dude, ignore us all), sticking to the expectations is key. I wouldn't move the kid into a new room, or somehow radically alter the expectation. If its bedtime its bedtime. But maybe you can make him own it more. Ask him what he'd like to do for bedtime. With my three year old he went through a bit of a thing about his bed, so we let him sleep on the floor. Seriously. It's what he wanted, and it worked, and now he's back in his bed and he got over that phase.
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Ugh, I feel for you. It sounds almost identical to what we went through with our first child, though he was a bit younger - he was great at bedtime until one day he decided he wasn't.
Unfortunately I don't have any silver-bullet advice for you, and anything I'm gonna say doesn't do justice to the desperation and exhaustion you're probably feeling. The best advice we ever got was to let him cry it out - it sucks to hear and there are nights when that is simply impossible -you need sleep too. But in the long run I don't know that there is any other answer. You'll feel like the cruelest monster this side of Caligula, but he'll eventually decide it's not a battle worth fighting.
I wish I had more comforting advice for you, but the only thing I can offer is the inevitable truth: it will pass.
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Is he or she getting new teeth? Is it possible the baby has caught a bug? The change seems relatively sudden, so you really should call your pediatrician for a consultation over the phone at least. They may have some tips or ask that you bring the baby in for a checkup.
Its a tricky situation, but once the baby learns you will respond to crying, they will keep doing it to elicit a visit from you. Crying for hours and hours though, sure shows your little-one has a 'never give up' determination.
It's hard to not be a bit sensitive to your neighbor, but he/she will just have to deal. Babies are a fact of life and probably the sound doesnt carry as much as you think.
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Wow, I'm really sorry to hear that.
Short version:
Do you have another bedroom he can sleep in? If you're desperate (which I would be if I were in your shoes), you might try to set up his bed in that room and see what happens. My son had a problem near that age, and that solved it, though it is not the same problem you described. He (my son) seemed to have developed a strong aversion to his room for sleeping.
Long version:
We'd put my son to bed, with the same routine as usual. Everything would seem to be fine. Later that night, we noticed he had moved his pillow and was sleeping in the hallway outside his bed. He wasn't looking for attention or anything, he was just sleeping away. We'd wake him up, walk him back to his bed, and explain to him that his bed was his sleeping place. He put up no fight, but sometime later we'd find him right back out there. We tried talking to him more about it (both at night and during the day), and he put up no resistance. He's not a sly kid, and when he doesn't like something he'd tell you right then, so my wife and I were confused when we'd find him right back out in the hallway. We put up a gate to his room, which was higher than he was tall, and he still managed to get himself, his pillow, his blanket, and his teddy bear out in the hall for sleeping. Finally, after months, we made a sleeping spot for him in the guest bedroom, and he didn't have any problems. Never tried to sleep in the hall again. Since my wife and I were trying for another child, we decided to just roll with the punches and let him switch rooms, as the guest room was going to become the nursery anyway. That worked just fine, but he'd never tell us why he didn't like sleeping in his old room.
In summary, the only (non-professional) advice I can give is that maybe he's developed an aversion to sleeping in that room. In any case, I hope it works out for you.
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Strange how those things can start all of a sudden, and they can be quite difficult to deal with. My son used to wake up in the middle of the night crying every now and then and, most of the time, he'd fall back asleep. But the times he didn't, I'd just go and get him and either my wife or I would go and sleep in his room (he's got a big bed). With kids, in my mind, you pick your battles.
When he was even younger and still in a toddler bed, we had a flip-flop type chair which could fold out and double as a mattress. Push comes to shove, one of us would just lay down on that thing while our son was still awake. Eventually, he'd fall asleep... and so would we.
Although the situation wasn't ideal, everyone got their sleep which was what all of us were after at that point in time.
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Heh, in the time it took to write my post, rabbit comes in to warn against precisely what I suggest. The thing is with kids is that what worked for rabbit and I, may not work for you, so rock out your parental intuition (if you can find it in your sleep induced haze) and go for what you'd feel would work best.
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I had a similar problem with my son at the same age, although nowhere near as bad as what you are going through, so I don't know if this would be good for you or not - we ended up buying a sound machine that could play white noise, ocean surf, rain, etc. My son would give us a hard time going to bed, but once he was in bed and the machine was playing (ocean surf), he would be out like a light.
Absolutely, that's why I just brain dumped a bunch of stuff that worked for me and other people I know. You just try stuff and see what works. I know lots of people who made the controlled crying thing work for them. They use phrases like, "it took a week to break them". It didn't work for us, since we weren't able to leave our moppets to cry very long, but it worked for them.
It will do good to heart and head
When your soul is in my soul's stead;
And I will friend you, if I may,
In the dark and cloudy day.
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I hear that shaking is highly effective, but not optimal.
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
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We switched my daughter from a crib to a toddler bed at 18 months and the first two nights were horrible. Babycenter.com had some really good advice. Stay in the room, walk you child to bed, say, "It's night night time, sleepy time, whatever." And place the child in bed. Go back to where you were in the room and don't look at them. If they get back out of bed, take them by the hand and repeat. Be firm in your voice. Only look at them when you speak to them. My daughter took 4 tries the first night and 2 the second. Now I say, "Hannah, it's night night time" she gets into bed herself. Sometimes she fusses, but she still gets in there and doesn't get out.
About this time they start showing real independence streaks and they can start to get nightmares around this age too. They can visual things that aren't actually present. The terrible 2s don't necessarily wait until 24 months.
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My boy is doing this, too. He is also getting over a cold. He and his sister get post nasal drip along with every cold. Last time, he was cutting some teeth, but every once in a while, there seems to be no reason at all. In these cases, we would usually have success in going in to his room, lying him down on his bed, saying night night, and walking away. We would have to do that a few times, but he usually got the point. (He is still in a crib though, so he can't get out.)
On the other hand, he also wakes up sometimes totally ready to rumble, and we really have no choice but to bring him out, watch some Treehouse at 3 AM, and let him play around for a while to get tired again.
I guess I am saying that I don't know what will help you out, sorry. We just try to roll with whatever happens, and thank God for the nights that he sleeps through.
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Before I answer the questions, just wanted to give a big heart-felt "Thank You!" to you guys for your advice.
That worked Saturday night, but since then he just doesn't want to be in the room at all. He'll stand at the door screaming & banging even with someone in there now.
We checked and there doesn't appear to be any new baby teeth coming in.
As far as the open door thing... well, I don't think that will work well. We live in a split level duplex where the kitchen/dining area is on the 2nd floor with the two bedrooms. We'd have to babygate the hallway and he's a pretty good climber. I'd be afraid he would figure a way over it while we slept. Also, there really aren't any other rooms for us to move him into. We are limited to the two bedrooms and he was going to have to share a bedroom with the new baby when it arrives as it is.
All of the recommended strategies sound good. I'll run this entire thread past my wife to see what she thinks would be the best option.
Again, thank you for the comments and suggestions!
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt
Witchlight Cycle: Sithis of the Thelis'Thale Clan, Dragonborn Paladin of Moradin
Try putting him into a stroller and talking for a 30-45 min walk outside. This calms them down. After coming home, give him a bath. Actually, the hot bathtub ritual every night at that age works well alone.
I am not sure why you don't want the kid to go to sleep with you occasionally. Nothing tragic about that at this age. Inconvenient for you, that's sure, but I am certain that it's still better than having him scream for hours on end. Just take him back to his own bed when he's soundly asleep and when it's your own time to hit the sack.
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Give him a little sip from your flask. Workd on me and I hasn't has problemz since.
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Lots of good suggestions here. Since each kid is different, you just have to keep trying things until you find one that works.
You might try reading a bedtime story to him with him in his bed. For my youngest we purchased a CD player and a CD of soft, soothing music. It worked like a charm when this problem popped up for her. You could also try rearranging the room. It might make it feel different enough for it to feel like a different room to him.
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"I might have gotten away with it if it wasn't for a damningly tenacious clinger." - Crouton on a childhood excrement escapade
OK, serious time now.
If he seems so hell-bent on getting out of the room and getting somewhere safe and secure (between you two), maybe he's seeing something he can't articulate yet. Monster in the closet or some such.
Does he have a nightlight?
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
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Well, it doesn't hurt to be sure.
"Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba!" - dejanzie
"If ads put your sanity to the test
come on down to Rat Boy's nest!
light up a stogie, and soon you'll see
how rock can be commercial-free!
'I'd hit it!'" - HP Lovesauce
Have him play some Doom 3 and he'll get bored of it soon enough.
The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid. - Elysium
Wordsmythe is my hero. - rabbit
XBL: E Munnie
That's a tough situation. We went through a few similar things with my daughter around the same age. She would react the same way at the start of bed time, and what actually fixed it was keeping her bedroom door open and removing the baby gate. Now we live in a 1 story house and she's never been the type to get up in the middle of the night and get into things she shouldn't so that what worked for us probably won't work for you.
The other thing we went through was, I think, night terrors. She would wake up screaming in the middle of the night, and would be hysterical for sometimes up to an hour. She would seem awake, but I'm not really sure she was. She wouldn't let us get near her to comfort her....it was pretty intense.
The good news is that it all passed. She's 3 and half now. Now that I think about it, she hasn't had any of those types of issues for several months, maybe even more than a year.
I know what you're going through, and I know how hard it can be. So, I hate that I can't offer any better advice, but things will get better. This too shall pass.
Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy - both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me.
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You said your wife is 10 weeks pregnant; is your son maybe feeling a little premature jealousy of the new arrival? That he realizes he won't be getting all of mommy and daddy's attention anymore, and is thus acting out so that he can ensure you still love him when the baby arrives? Or do kids not really think that way, and I've just been watching too much Supernanny?
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Not sure kids think that way at 19 months. My 3-year-old still wants to know when we're going to the baby store to buy her a baby sister.
Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy - both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me.
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He's 19 months old but he was also born 3 months premature so from a developmental standpoint he's like a 16/17 month old.
We've been through 1 night terror with him already and this hasn't been like that. He just doesn't want to be in his room at all. If we opened the door and babygated his door or the hallway, I bet he'll scream at us from his side of the gate or he'll just crawl into bed with us.
Gamertag: RiverRatMatt
Witchlight Cycle: Sithis of the Thelis'Thale Clan, Dragonborn Paladin of Moradin
I believe the last child in our family also was fine for months and then stopped being able to sleep in his own room. I think the turning point was when he got pretty sick for a while and my mother let him sleep with her. Anyway, when he was healthy, he went for more than a month of the screaming before he started settling down again. It was fun.
And it was a great way to teach me as a teenager that I was not prepared to deal with parenthood.
The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid. - Elysium
Wordsmythe is my hero. - rabbit
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Is he still taking naps during the day or perhaps too late? I just wonder why isn't he tired. Also, is he getting any late night snacks? Perhaps some warm milk or those camamille (sp?) baths would help ease him into bed. Does he also use a pacifier? That helps sometimes and actually encouraged from the doctor who invented the whole "let'em cry" theory.
When my son isn't tired, its rough, but my wife usually sleeps in the bed with him until he falls asleep (he's two years old, but we went straight to the twin). I'm not crazy about my wifre doing this fearing that he might get too clingy, but it works for now.
Was I the only one whose first thought was to install some of this in the kid's room?
http://www.dynomat.com/sound_proofing_insulation.php
Oh man, now I have the Hootie & the Blowfish song in my head.
The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid. - Elysium
Wordsmythe is my hero. - rabbit
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