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Music:

I used to really be into music. I knew artists, songs, lyrics, genre they fit into and listened to music somewhat constantly. I am not sure why, but I just don't anymore. An ipod has no appeal to me at all.

I like David Lee Roth Van Halen and Sammy Hagar Van Halen and I don't really compare one to the other. They are just different bands with the same name.

For the most part the singer is the band. If the singer leaves, it just isn't the same band anymore. I used to like INXS and after Michael Hutchence killed himself, I just forgot about them. I can't imagine Nirvana with a new singer. You can replace pretty much anyone other than the singer and it would be hard to tell the difference.

Getting Old:

I know I am getting old because I complain when people leave lights on when they leave the house. Or, when the Air or heat is on and doors and windows are open.

I don't feel the need to drive 80mph all the time anymore. I don't drive 55, but I just don't need to be going faster than everyone else anymore.

I don't have an AIM or any other messenger program on my computer. Cell phones and email are good enough for me.

TV:

I really think TV is geared towards idiots. Other than a very select few, the programming is just horrible predictable trash only to be out-dumbed by the constant advertising.

Movies:

If a movie sucks we should get a refund. Think of it like a recalled product or tainted food. If the movie truly sucks and they spent $150 million on it, and it grossed $2 million in the first week, we should get our money back. We have to sit through 30 minutes of pre-movie advertisements and then five previews before the movie, so I want something back if it sucks.

If a studio puts out a sequel or a prequel and it sucks we get double our money back and they are prohibited by law from making any more sequels for 12 months and have to fire the person that green lighted the sequel.

You can't go back and change a movie that has been out for years. Sorry Steven Spielberg you cant have a change of mind and digitally remove guns and change them to cell phones because you feel guilty it is corrupting the youth. You made the movie and you have to stick with it. As for Star Wars, George Lucas should be forced to release a warning label on anything he releases that he changed 20 years later. It needs to say "Now that I have money and you have caught on to my story inconsistencies I am trying to trick you into thinking I knew where this was going in 1978"

More sex, less violence in movies.

The EMO Look / Attitude:

This probably should be in the Getting Old Section, but this fad is just funny. And I mean Funny like I am laughing at those that embrace this with their down trodden bleeding poems of angst. Parents, please video your kids if they are into this, archive it and make sure to show it to them in 20 years. It will be worth it.

Arguing on Internet Forums:

A very productive use of time, please put as much energy as possible into convincing some random person you will never see on a point of view that they will never admit you are right.

Politics / Politicians:

Don't act shocked when you find out a politician lied. It's what they do for a living. Its like being shocked a criminal does crime.

I truly derive a huge amount of pleasure seeing politicians get caught doing things that they advocate so strongly against. As a hypothetical, like a politician voting against Gay anything and getting busted for wanting Gay sex, in like an Airport Bathroom or something.

Criminals and Guilt:

If there is video tape of me beating someone with a baseball bat, two hundred witnesses to the event, I will still plead innocent.

It truly amazes me how everyone is innocent of what they are accused of. We have become a country of victims of the man.

Conspiracy Theories:

I know stuff is done all them time with nefarious intent, but not everything is a huge government cover-up. You can't have the government horribly inefficient one day and able to fake the moon landing, 9/11 sending Tsunami's to Asia the next. This is all you have to remember, the more people you require to pull something off, the more likely that sooner or later someone is going to rat out the plan. And any number over one person equates to a 50% chance that someone will squeal. Deep Throat / Nixon / Watergate anyone...

Personal Responsibility:

Take some. Stop blaming your 4th grade teacher for failing you in PE for your holding up a kwik-y mart 30 years later. You did it, now own up to your actions.

Coffee is hot. Driving is Bumpy. You can get burnt if hot coffee spills on you. This isn't something that you should be compensated a few hundred thousand dollars for. Suck it up, you made a bad call.

Cell Phones While Driving:

You car should automatically be forced to the right lane, the slow lane or off the road to take your all important call, especially if there is any traffic at all. Same applies to putting on make-up, eating or anything else other than driving.

Political Speeches at Awards Shows:

I don't care for your opinion, you are an actor, and you pretend to be other people for a living. The lot of you can't stay married or off drugs for more than a few months, so spare me your views on the extinction of the Furry Woodchuck in Northern Uzbekistan.

The Term Diva:

You can't be a Diva until you have two triple platinum records and they are at least ten years apart. There is no such thing as a 21 year old Diva. Let's just say Flash in the Pan and be done with it until that ten years passes.

Rehab:

I am not impressed, nor do I assume anyone is because you have been in and out of rehab for drug addiction several times. Its one thing to fight an addiction, its another to get so much press over it. This leads me to the DUI arrests of the rich and famous. For the love of FN GAWD get a driver, take a taxi, take a limo, you made $20 million for your last picture and you can probably afford to get someone to drive you to the club where you will clearly, based on your history drink too much then drive home.

Corporate Crime:

Enron / Lincoln Savings, etc. If you are held responsible for this, and found to be guilty of stealing from millions of hard working Americans, then should be stripped of all of your luxuries in the same way the people you stole from lost everything. I don't care that Florida law allows you to keep your $9 million dollar house due to a technicality, it's going to be sold to pay back the people who are fighting to pay rent in their apartment.

Rap Artists:

Personally I consider this an oxymoron, but that's just me. But don't tell me you donated $50 thousand to the hurricane relief fund because you care and then brag about your $1 million dollar car and set of 20 $40 thousand dollar Rolex's. That just doesn't go so far.

Sports Stars and Steroids:

Their contract needs to read, once we pay you over a million a year we get to drug test you randomly and often. If you are caught taking Enhancing drugs you are banned from the game for a year. It's like cheating, and just because it's done, doesn't make it less cheating.

Impeaching the President:

What a joke. Good, Bad or Indifferent, Clinton was impeached and said, go ahead, try to fire me. Nixon got impeached and they said, and yes, we will fire you. But don't bring up impeachment of a president if you're not going to go through with it. This makes us look like a bunch of wimps to the rest of the world. People throw this term around like it actually means something. It's like putting Gummy the Barking dog in front of your house to protect it. After a while people just know it has no teeth to it.

Lip Syncing at Awards Shows:

I propose a constitutional amendment to have this banned. If you can't sing at an awards show, you can't win an award as it proves you have to have a studio create your voice.

The Price of Gas:

Don't complain that a gallon of gas costs $3 when you would pay the equivalent of $50 dollars for a gallon of star bucks and you never question that cost.

Always vigilient, and dies in the end

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wham, bam, thank you ma'am.

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The US is becoming more and more like a 3rd world country... Or maybe it's always been that way, but had great marketing.

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I agree with many of your points but unfortunately, logic and reasoning do not prevail in this country. I'm afraid our society will continue down this path of frivelous lawsuits, atrocious entertainment, political correctness, and lack of freedom to punish children in schools and at home. We'll eventually implode - it's just a matter of time.

Lag used to be a lot worse back in the day. Hell, it took Jesus 3 days to respawn.

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93_confirmed wrote:
I agree with many of your points but unfortunately, logic and reasoning do not prevail in this country.

Is there a place where they do?

don't you wonder sometimes...

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outoffeelinsobad wrote:
93_confirmed wrote:
I agree with many of your points but unfortunately, logic and reasoning do not prevail in this country.

Is there a place where they do?

Uzbekistan, home of the Furry Woodchuck

Always vigilient, and dies in the end

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Can't read... too much logic... reasoning... It makes too much sense! Make it stop! MAKE IT STOP!

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Quote:

Rap Artists: Personally I consider this an oxymoron, but that's just me.

It's not just you good sir.

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shihonage wrote:
Quote:

Rap Artists: Personally I consider this an oxymoron, but that's just me.

It's not just you good sir.

While I agree that the genre has taken a turn for the worse lately there are a few rappers worth mentioning. Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Tribe Called Quest, Common, Rakim, early Nas (particularly Illmatic, one of my favorite albums of all time), De La Soul, and The Roots I would definitely label as artists. The lyrical quality of all of them is top notch.

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Trainwreck wrote:
shihonage wrote:
Quote:

Rap Artists: Personally I consider this an oxymoron, but that's just me.

It's not just you good sir.

While I agree that the genre has taken a turn for the worse lately there are a few rappers worth mentioning. Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Tribe Called Quest, Common, Rakim, early Nas (particularly Illmatic, one of my favorite albums of all time), De La Soul, and The Roots I would definitely label as artists. The lyrical quality of all of them is top notch.

Mos Def and De La Soul are freaking sweet. Mos Def loses points for Hitchhikers' Guide, though.

don't you wonder sometimes...

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outoffeelinsobad wrote:

Mos Def and De La Soul are freaking sweet. Mos Def loses points for Hitchhikers' Guide, though.

He gains points for that with me.

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Trainwreck wrote:
shihonage wrote:
Quote:

Rap Artists: Personally I consider this an oxymoron, but that's just me.

It's not just you good sir.

While I agree that the genre has taken a turn for the worse lately there are a few rappers worth mentioning. Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Tribe Called Quest, Common, Rakim, early Nas (particularly Illmatic, one of my favorite albums of all time), De La Soul, and The Roots I would definitely label as artists. The lyrical quality of all of them is top notch.

Agreed. In my opinion, the artistry of rap is not the tone but the rhythm of the words, rhythm over melody. Took me a long time to appreciate it, but I'm getting there. Those are some good examples you listed, Trainwreck. Do you think Tupac might count too? I kinda like some of his stuff.

But I agree with the original post: "But don't tell me you donated $50 thousand to the hurricane relief fund because you care and then brag about your $1 million dollar car and set of 20 $40 thousand dollar Rolex's. That just doesn't go so far." Whether it comes from rap artists or Hollywood stars or the guy down the street, false generosity is crass.

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KaterinLHC wrote:
In my opinion, the artistry of rap is not the tone but the rhythm of the words, rhythm over melody. Took me a long time to appreciate it, but I'm getting there. Those are some good examples you listed, Trainwreck. Do you think Tupac might count too? I kinda like some of his stuff.

Most definitely, his song "Me and My Girlfriend" is brilliant with his use of double entendres. His Makavelli album 7 Day Theory was I think his best work to date. If he wasn't taken away from us so early it's difficult to imagine how much better he would have gotten. The man just flowed on the mic, it's hard to describe how good he actually was.

"The light at the end of the tunnel is just the light of an oncoming train." - Robert Lowell
"Boy exchange is a fun pain in the ass." - LiquidMantis

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Excellent thoughts dthind. Also:

Mex wrote:
The US is becoming more and more like a 3rd world country... Or maybe it's always been that way, but had great marketing.

is spot on in my opinion.

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Andy's picture
Location: Germany

I'm bored, so I'll just comment on your post.

Music:
I listen to music almost all the time. Winamp is playing whenever I'm on my computer. However, I don't have an IPod or any kind of MP3 player. I just don't need one.
I mostly listen to metal (yeah, I know...), there are many talented European bands out there (especially from Scandinavia).
And you're right. If the singer is replaced, the whole band is different. I just recently listened to a song from a band I really liked whose singer was replaced and I didn't like it. It wasn't bad, just... meh.

Getting old:
Hell, I just turned 19 in July and I'm already feeling old... That may be because I turned into a real cynic. I always look at things somewhat detached and question every motive.
I still have dreams, though, and I fear I don't have the time to realize them, so I try to make my goals easier to achieve. Most of the time I ridicule myself for still having dreams knowing that they're all but impossible to come true.

TV:
I'm with you here. TV is opiate for the masses. It is the modern equivalent to what religion was in the Middle Ages. It turns people into mindless buying machines and makes them believe everything thrown at them. Most of the media employs mind control in one way or the other.
Most of the programming is just horrible. Nowadays I only watch documentaries or perhaps an old episode of the Simpsons (the new ones are really bad) or South Park (it is quite ridiculous but often has some socio-political message).

Movies:
90% trash. I enjoy a good movie, but it has to make me forget everything around me and take me in. I enjoy books quite a bit more, though. I discovered Tom Clancy's books a few months ago and now I'm in the process of reading every book he wrote. I already read 7 books written by him, I think (ATM: Debt of Honor).
Good ones I've seen recently:
Pan's Labyrinth
Departed
300
My alltime favourite is Cruel Intentions. I've seen it about 10 times.

I think it's funny that I watched the South Park episode about movie re-releases featuring Spielberg and Lucas just yesterday. And since I'm from Germany and you're living in America, you probably didn't watch the same channel last night. Quite a coincidence (I encounter such coincidences on a regular basis, it's starting to freak me out ).

EMO:
You probably have never seen Hip-Hop wannabe gangster kids in Germany. Believe me, this is the single most ridiculous species of man I know about

Arguing on the Internet:
I'm with you.
I participated in quite a few discussions over the years. However, I soon realized that there's no point. It is an utter waste of time. Especially trying to argue against religion made me realize that nobody concedes a point, ever. (Yeah, I am an atheist)

Politics:
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. " ~ Winston Churchill
"Democracy is the art of running the circus from the monkey cage." ~ H. L. Mencken

Criminals / Personal responsibility:
This is the age of the responsibility of others. F***ed up children? It's the fault of video games, not the parents'. One of the best examples.

Conspiracy theories:
You said everything there is to say.

Cell Phones While Driving:
Well, I won't comment on this point.

Political Speeches at Awards Shows:
Celebtrities using their fame to force their opinion on unsuspecting fans... Well, the media make it possible. It's brain washing. I think everybody should make their own decisions based on what they know and not based on what somebody else says.

Diva:
It's just a word. Words get abused all the time.

Rehab:
The media make people want to know about celebrities' personal lives. I don't like it either.

Corporate Crime:
I won't comment on this. This is an area where I can't make up my own mind.

Rap Artists:
You should see the German ones. They rap about growing up in a ghetto even if they don't know what a real ghetto looks like.

Sports Cars / Steroids:
I don't know, what this is about, so I leave it at that.

Impeaching the President:
Same here.

Lip Synching:
Awards, for me at least, stopped being important some time ago. There are so many awards nowadays, I'm sure you could get one for being the person selling the most records while being in jail.

Gas costs:
I think you have a point here.

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Quote:
More sex, less violence in life.

Fixed.

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Grumpicus wrote:
Quote:
More sex, less violence in life.

Fixed.

Grumpicus for President!

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Andy wrote:
My alltime favourite is Cruel Intentions. I've seen it about 10 times.

I think it's funny that I watched the South Park episode about movie re-releases featuring Spielberg and Lucas just yesterday.

Thought it was kinda funny reading that. If you liked Cruel Intentions I really suggest you watch Dangerous Liaisons if you haven't already. Cruel Intentions had it's own merits, but I don't think it measures to the original. Of course Cruel Intentions is an adaptation of a play which was an adaptation of a novel, but it is the first film version.

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dthind wrote:
Arguing on Internet Forums:

A very productive use of time, please put as much energy as possible into convincing some random person you will never see on a point of view that they will never admit you are right.


Your sarcasm has not gone unnoticed. I will spend the next 12 posts demolishing your wrong-headed point of view until you are reduced to a gibbering lump.

Edit: As much as I hate the word, I think you need a blog, dthind.

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Quote:
Rap Artists:

Personally I consider this an oxymoron, but that's just me. But don't tell me you donated $50 thousand to the hurricane relief fund because you care and then brag about your $1 million dollar car and set of 20 $40 thousand dollar Rolex's. That just doesn't go so far.

If you took as much time as it did to post your post and looked into Rap Music beyond whats shown on TV (remember you said it was for idiots so your naturally not basing your opinion on TV right?) you'd find an plethora of interesting and unique artists that are continuing to experiment and push music into new directions.

I love listening to all sorts of music..good music though is HARD to find.. because you have to basically all but ignore popular culture and focus on harder to find artists.. but I find that a good artist transcends genres.

If its one thing the Internet has done right is allowed artists to work around the roadblock that is popular music.

Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter

85's face the truth you're too dumb.

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oldmanscene24 wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
Quote:
More sex, less violence in life.

Fixed.

Grumpicus for President!

Agreed!

Also, I'm not sure of the level of sarcasm in the Cruel Intentions movie discussion, but if you are really do like it, yes you should watch Dangerous Liaisons, but to complete the trifecta, you also need to watch Valmont. (Milos Foreman's direction of the same story w/ Colin Firth & Annette Bening.) Valmont is my favorite version.

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There's not enough bandwidth on a thousand Internets to detail what's wrong with that idea.

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Quintin_Stone wrote:
dthind wrote:
Arguing on Internet Forums:

A very productive use of time, please put as much energy as possible into convincing some random person you will never see on a point of view that they will never admit you are right.


Your sarcasm has not gone unnoticed. I will spend the next 12 posts demolishing your wrong-headed point of view until you are reduced to a gibbering lump.

Edit: As much as I hate the word, I think you need a blog, dthind.

Sarcasm... What.... Me...

No Wai !!!!!1111

Grumpicus wrote:
Quote:
More sex, less violence in life.

Fixed.

Agreed.

TheGameguru wrote:
Quote:
Rap Artists:

Personally I consider this an oxymoron, but that's just me. But don't tell me you donated $50 thousand to the hurricane relief fund because you care and then brag about your $1 million dollar car and set of 20 $40 thousand dollar Rolex's. That just doesn't go so far.

If you took as much time as it did to post your post and looked into Rap Music beyond whats shown on TV (remember you said it was for idiots so your naturally not basing your opinion on TV right?) you'd find an plethora of interesting and unique artists that are continuing to experiment and push music into new directions.

I love listening to all sorts of music..good music though is HARD to find.. because you have to basically all but ignore popular culture and focus on harder to find artists.. but I find that a good artist transcends genres.

If its one thing the Internet has done right is allowed artists to work around the roadblock that is popular music.

I wont deny some is better than others. I think it true the more a thing is mass marketed and shoved down our throat the more generic it is and has become.

So sure, if I bothered to listen to more it would probably have varying degrees of Tolerable to hatable. Then again, I like Marilyn Manson, so take me off the list of people with taste or an eye for lasting talent.

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bennard's picture
Location: FL090

My random thoughts:

Getting old:
Subtopic 1: Music
- I can't stand the crap that comes on the radio these days. It all sounds the same.
- I listen to NPR all the time. So much so, that I can probably recite the program schedule off the top of my head
- I love my iPod, but I find that I have to keep the volume very low, otherwise I get headaches.
- I really love going to concerts, but they play that sh*t way too loud these days. I bring earplugs when I remember.

Subtopic 2: Movies
- I don't like going to the movies. The seats hurt my back.
- I've got a really nice setup at home now, watching movies there is so much better. Sure, I have to wait a few months before I see the movie, but I can pause the movie when I have to pee, and I can drink all the beer I want while watching.

Home ownership:
- I'm really torn on this. Having a house is nice, but it's a drain on fiscal resources. The note is more than affordable, but dropping a few hundred at Home Depot every weekend is getting old.
- I realize now that I'm tied down to a single location, and more or less have to remain there until I'm assured of making a profit on my home.

Gadgets:
- What's in my bag right now: iPod Photo (40GB), Nokia 770, Cingular 3125, Canon Powershot G6, Dell Precision M65, Insignia 10" DVD Player, Bose Quiet Comfort 2 headphones. It's a heavy freaking bag. But I could always go with more.

Southwest Airlines:
- Open seating can kiss my ass.

Beer:
- Beer is good, and good for you.
- Draft beers that come in tankards 1.0 Liters in size, for some reason, tastes better.

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dthind wrote:
Coffee is hot. Driving is Bumpy. You can get burnt if hot coffee spills on you. This isn't something that you should be compensated a few hundred thousand dollars for. Suck it up, you made a bad call.

This case is a personal pet peeve of mine. The Liebeck vs. McDonald's law suit is commonly used as an example of our overly litigious society and need for tort reform. However, it's also commonly misunderstood. The woman was awarded $2.9 million (later reduced by the judge) not because the coffee was hot and it burned her and that burn was worth $2.9 million but because McDonald's had made the conscious decision to heat coffee hotter than normal to save money. If coffee is heated to 190 degrees (well above your normal drip coffee maker), they can use less grounds to make a decent cup of joe.

Also of note, the woman initially tried to settle for $20K to cover medical expenses. McDonald's refused, offering $800.

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Andy's picture
Location: Germany

Quote:

Thought it was kinda funny reading that. If you liked Cruel Intentions I really suggest you watch Dangerous Liaisons if you haven't already. Cruel Intentions had it's own merits, but I don't think it measures to the original. Of course Cruel Intentions is an adaptation of a play which was an adaptation of a novel, but it is the first film version.

Thanks, perhaps I'll look around if I can find it somewhere and watch it, if I have the time.
Quote:

Also, I'm not sure of the level of sarcasm in the Cruel Intentions movie discussion, but if you are really do like it, yes you should watch Dangerous Liaisons, but to complete the trifecta, you also need to watch Valmont. (Milos Foreman's direction of...ning.) Valmont is my favorite version.

Yeah, I really like Cruel Intentions. No sarcasm or irony. I love this movie.
Thank you too for the recommendations.
Quote:

Beer:
- Beer is good, and good for you.
- Draft beers that come in tankards 1.0 Liters in size, for some reason, tastes better.

Although I grew up in Bavaria and went to school in a town in Germany (Bamberg) that is most famous for its beer, I never really liked beer. My friends always always make fun of me since it's a sin not to like beer there but whatever The kind of alcohol I like to consume is at least 60 proof.
Did you know you are allowed to consume beer in Germany when you are 16? In Bavaria, this law is often bent and you can get beer at the age of 15. You can buy spirits when you are 18.

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Trashie wrote:
dthind wrote:
Coffee is hot. Driving is Bumpy. You can get burnt if hot coffee spills on you. This isn't something that you should be compensated a few hundred thousand dollars for. Suck it up, you made a bad call.

This case is a personal pet peeve of mine. The Liebeck vs. McDonald's law suit is commonly used as an example of our overly litigious society and need for tort reform. However, it's also commonly misunderstood. The woman was awarded $2.9 million (later reduced by the judge) not because the coffee was hot and it burned her and that burn was worth $2.9 million but because McDonald's had made the conscious decision to heat coffee hotter than normal to save money. If coffee is heated to 190 degrees (well above your normal drip coffee maker), they can use less grounds to make a decent cup of joe.

Also of note, the woman initially tried to settle for $20K to cover medical expenses. McDonald's refused, offering $800.

I stand corrected on my example. I actually survived a year of law school but we never got to this in Torts I/II. But I can tell you all about Gertz, NY Times v. Sullivan and Ms. Palzgraff and her proximate causes.

edit - here is one of many links on the Liebeck v. McDonalds case that better illustrates the facts

http://www.osmond-riba.org/lis/essay_mcdonalds.htm

it is a bad example I cited claiming perrsonal responsibility.

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Andy wrote:
Although I grew up in Bavaria and went to school in a town in Germany (Bamberg) that is most famous for its beer, I never really liked beer.

Sacrilege! That's like me not loving sake, although who doesn't like sake? Mmmmmmm, sakeeee.

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Trashie wrote:
dthind wrote:
Coffee is hot. Driving is Bumpy. You can get burnt if hot coffee spills on you. This isn't something that you should be compensated a few hundred thousand dollars for. Suck it up, you made a bad call.

This case is a personal pet peeve of mine. The Liebeck vs. McDonald's law suit is commonly used as an example of our overly litigious society and need for tort reform. However, it's also commonly misunderstood. The woman was awarded $2.9 million (later reduced by the judge) not because the coffee was hot and it burned her and that burn was worth $2.9 million but because McDonald's had made the conscious decision to heat coffee hotter than normal to save money. If coffee is heated to 190 degrees (well above your normal drip coffee maker), they can use less grounds to make a decent cup of joe.

Also of note, the woman initially tried to settle for $20K to cover medical expenses. McDonald's refused, offering $800.

Thank You! This is a pet peeve of mine as well. Spilling hot coffee is one thing, 3rd degree burns on Grandma's genetalia is quite another. Sorry for giving you all that visual image, but if somebody did that to my grandmother just to avoid having to brew a fresh pot of coffee, there would be a reckoning!

The point was not that someone was inconvenienced, the point was that a conscious decision was made to serve coffee at a temperature that was too hot to be consumed in order to save money.

Read more here: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

Quote:
(Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often
charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in
motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed
the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from
the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled
into her lap.
The sweatpants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonalds refused.

Quote:
During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700
claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims
involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This
history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of
this hazard
.

McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants
advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to
maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the
safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell
coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is
generally 135 to 140 degrees.

Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company
actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185
degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn
hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above,
and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured
into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn
the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns
would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing
the "holding temperature" of its coffee.

Quote:
excerpted from ATLA fact sheet. © 1995, 1996 by Consumer Attorneys of California

*Legion* wrote:

There's not enough bandwidth on a thousand Internets to detail what's wrong with that idea.

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Why are phone number pads and keyboard number pad numbers reversed?

I know the 4-5-6 are the same.....

Seriously. Very frustrating when you work with both all day. (and, had a few adult beverages the night before)

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^^^ Something like this might work.

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I'm with you on having actually read the Liebeck case, Trashie. It's too often misunderstood. Then again, it was in headlines, so I guess misunderstanding shouldn't be surprising.

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