Selling out
Monday, September 24th, 2007 - 12:22pm
Well, since I base all of life's major decisions on the advice here at GWJ, I need to vent/get some advice on a job situation.
background: I'm an energy reporter. I have a background in journalism, and I currently cover energy markets. It's a good job. I have a lot of great relationships here, good work environment. Pretty laidback boss. The only real complaint is that it is, frankly, kind of boring.
Last week, on a whim, I applied for a job as an analyst at an energy trading company. Just got called in for a second interview. I would essentially be crossing over. On the surface, its a potentially better job - good pay, stock, bonuses, lots of vacation. The works. The cons: could be significantly more demanding than my current job, it's kind of a risky company, in that there is a real chance the company could fold in a few years if some things don't work out. All in all, it sounds like the company is doing some really exciting things, and I'm really frankly very attracted to the position.
So what is my hang up?
I have a very real sense that taking this job would make me a complete and total sell out.
I would almost certainly be burning the bridges at my current job - not only because I'm crossing over from reporting the market to being part of the market - but because I would be quitting at the worst possible time, when two members of my team are expected to be on maternity/paternity leave and we will be extremely short-staffed.
Also, this is the last career path I ever imagined myself taking. As a freshman in college - hell even as a newspaper reporter 5 years ago - I would never have dreamed that I would be considering taking a job like this.
But I didn't have a family then. I didn't have a mortgage. I didn't have my kid's college to plan for. My wife wants to have another baby next year - so that's two college educations to plan for. And frankly, when we have another child my wife wants to quit her job in a big way, and I think it's a good idea. That's not an option with my current job, but it's a very good possibility with this new position.
So are these things I'm just telling myself to try and justify my greed? Is this just a case where the grass is greener on the other side, so to speak?
It's not like the job I have now is upholding some sort of ideal - I'm not fulfilling what I would consider an important societal function as a journalist compared to, say someone covering the situation in Darfour for NPR. Maybe I'm just completing a process that began when I burned out at the newspaper.
Has anyone had an similar experience? Am I just an asshole? Should I have posted this on myspace instead?
We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea.
Crossing over from being a reporter to actually working in the area is as far as I know fairly common. If the job interests you I don't feel you should consider it selling out. As you say you have a family and that should take precedence over your youthful nostalgia (I feel) about the path you saw for yourself. Often life has this way of making decisions for you. Also consider that your 'whim' may have been your true feelings pushing you. If your job supporting your ideals is not fulfilling, maybe your ideals have changed while you weren't looking.
The only real downside is that you will be leaving your current employers in a weak position. That sucks, but, as you say, there is the family to consider. Also you have doubt about the long-term survival of the company, but often even strong companies go belly-up, it is a risk all employees take.
Anyway, just my 2c for what they are worth. I wish you luck and happiness in what you choose.
Sivok wrote:
I sold out long ago. Went from R&D to sales with a brief stop in consulting. You get used to it. For me it was a quality of life thing and I'm happier in my own skin now that I have enough money to be self-deterministic and still have enough free time to do things I want to do. From what you posted, the concerns I see would be
1. Burning bridges at your current job
2. Significantly more demanding job (timewise?, stress level?)
3. Long term viability (I work in software, this has never been a concern for me)
Only number 2 sounds like it could be potentially bad. 1 only comes into play if 3 does too.....
EMO DUFFMAN IS EEEEMMMOOOOO.
You're not selling out, you're taking care of #1 (and, by extension, #2 and #3...n where #2 is wifey and the rest are the innumerable chitlins).
"THE HELL ASS BALLS." - Prederick, expressing frustration in the time-honored way.
The first thing you need to realize is that it's not greed to want your family to be more comfortable. It's not greed to want to prosper. Now, when you're having your bosses knocked off so you can take their job, and buy another Lear jet... yeah, that's when you hit greed.
I wouldn't say you're an asshole for wanting to switch to something that could A) provide better for your family, and B) be more interesting. It's a part of life to want to move up. I think it's your loyalty to the company you work for that's holding you up. When you're content at a job, especially when that job as probably seen you through some hard times, it's hard to just turn your back on that. In my opinion though, your first duty is always to your family, and what is best for them, not the company you work for.
Even saying that though, it sounds complicated. You say the job you have now is more stable, which, in the long run, might be better to stick with (if, as you say, the other company goes under). I guess you just have to assess the risk, and figure out if it's worth it to you.
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I think you already know the answer.
Your being presented with what appears to be a very good opportunity. That's all you can really hope for, there are no guarantees, no one will ever approach you with the perfect job.
A lot of people need to shift their views after college as their priorities change. The important thing is providing for your family, and families cost money, a lot of money. It isn't greed, it's responsibility.
As far as burning bridges is concerned, you need to give two weeks notice and work hard during that two weeks. You don't control when the opportunity arises and you can't expect the opportunity to exist when it's convenient to your employer.
I've always felt that leaving a job is like dumping a girlfriend, there is no good time. I've had lots of employees leave, many of them at very bad times for me. I've never been bitter if they handled it professionally. They need to look out for themselves, before they need to look out for me.
Good luck on your second interview.
"Excuses are like poems: they're for sissies and no one wants to hear 'em" - Ron Stilanovich
XBL - Trophy Husband1
My first week on my current job, I received a call from another resume I had submitted. I jokingly told my new boss about it, and he instantly responded, "Call them. Don't show this place any loyalty, as they will never have any for you."
If feeling like a "sell out" would bother you that much, consider that. My guess is that it would be passing. Go with the position that will make you happy, and provide for your family. Keep as many options open as possible, but don't sacrifice your personal happiness simply to keep your employer happy. Well, too much of it I guess, as most all of us give up "something" for work.
Hypatian wrote:
I wouldn't worry about "selling out", I'd consider the security and the risks, but as long as you know what you value and you trust your integrity, valuing idealism over taking care of your family is kid stuff. (I'm making a clear distinction between having values & integrity & being naively idealistic.)
OTOH, you may have a real opportunity if you are offered the new job to go back to your old bosses and say: "Hey look, I know you all are in a bad place w/ several members of the team being out next year, but I've been offered a job that will allow me to take care of my family. If you can match the offer, I'll stay." They may not match the offer, but this is an excellent opportunity to negotiate a raise.
*Legion* wrote:
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http://twitter.com/nnschiller
I "sold out" last week. I'm in the same boat as you.
Going from a cushy and slightly boring network administrator job for a university to a corporate security engineer job will be a large transition, but my family will be better off for it.
Now if I can just convince my wife that living in the country is a billion times better than big city life.
/sigh
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You're already working for a business for pay. So guess what? You've already sold out. Don't confuse journalism with working with the poor or researching medicines that will cure cancer. It's a job like any other job. And your boss, no matter where you work or what the boss says, isn't going to hesitate to can your ass if business conditions demand it. This is America. It's how we roll.
Trade journalism and analyst positions are pretty closely linked. There's going to be more pressure on you in the financial firm because your readers are going to be looking to turn your predictions into profitable trades, and those traders tend to be very demanding. In exchange, you're going to get compensation for taking on that pressure. You'll also get some kickass cash if your predictions turn out to be right.
Can somebody photoshop Duffman into that "I'm going to listen to Likin Park" photo that's floating around?
All good points, and I guess I do know the answer. I'm just agonizing over what is, in my mind, letting down some of my current teammates.
Of course, now that I've posted this, I won't get the job
We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea.
"Sell out" .. .where do I sign up?
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Horror Vacui
Always go for the greenbacks. Always go for the better job. Always put your family first. Always be happy. Always put it in the pooper.
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I can understand your point of view, Duffman, as I have been there as well. I have been at my current place of employment for 10 years, it is a fairly small company (40 people) and I have become friends with my boss. He and I have had discussions about this same sort of situation in the past, and I have actually left once to go back to school. The job needed me, as I was in a demanding position, but I needed to finish what I had started years before or else it would hang over me for the rest of my life. He said to me bluntly that if I ever had the opportunity to go somewhere else for the sake of bettering myself, or my family, that he would support me in my decision. He gave me my old job back when I finished.
I guess the way I look at it is, if it will make your life better, than do not hesitate to assess the opportunity, and take it if you can. If your employer doesn't want you to better yourself, than you don't really want to work for them.
Just my thoughts.
Good luck!
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We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea.
We in IT aren't ever saying "selling out". We call it "moving closer to the business" instead.
Good luck, man! Go for it by all means!
Xbox Live tag Gorilla800lbs
Same here. Cushy academic IT gig for corporate consulting firm. Slight pay bump but the advancement potential is pretty great. Sure, my work won't be 100% non-profit anymore but you are more than your job.
Xbox Live: Trashie
I agree with everything that's been said here. You are working for the benefit of yourself and your family -- that's the fundamental of why we all work. I have to say though that having the consideration you do for your current employer and your ethical standards is admirable and something few would even think about now. I'm perhaps a little bitter as the majority of the employers I've had in my career have been scumbags who've lied to me and in some cases, screwed me out of money because they could but you have to think of yourself and your family first. Don't ever think that your current employer as nice as they are wouldn't cut you loose as soon as they thought it would benefit them more than having you there. They are working for their benefit as well.
"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
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kwitcherbitchin
This way you can afford a full time shirpa for kid #2.
Do you work to live or live to work? Yes, the new job will probably elevate your stress levels and make greater demands on your time, but the cold, hard reality is most better paying jobs are going to continue this trend. Family is the most important thing, and being able to better provide for them trumps any notion of "selling out."
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I'm interested in what people would say if you took the family out of the equation. I'm only asking because i have a close friend who's in a similar situation... must be that time of the year....
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Scroll down to the very end of the transcript. For the life of me I couldn't find the clip on YouTube.
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Way to go, sellout.
(Hey, I figured somebody had to stop the care bear love-in.)
If you can not leave your current employer in the lurch, that's obviously better, but, as you say, you can't control when the opportunities arise. Do what makes you happy. (Note that making your wife happy makes you happy by extension.
)
MechaSlinky wrote:
-on L4DWithout others relying on me, the value of money decreases greatly. I think. Of course I was much younger and less mature when I was a batchelor, so I'm not sure how I would feel now. But as things stand, if there wasn't a house to pay for and commitments to keep up, I'd take a job I enjoy over bigger $$ 3 times out of five.
*Legion* wrote:
informationgames.info
http://twitter.com/nnschiller
I would still say go to the higher paying job.
"Thanks, KrazyTaco, thanks. I'd put it in your pooper too." -Mex
"Krazy, I love the fact that you exist." -Vector
"Oh, KrazyTaco, you fulfill all my wishes." -pneuman
xboxlive= KrazyTacoFO
Hmm.. Okay, this should probably go in a different thread but i'll expand on that situation.
For the record i think you should take the job Duffman.
My friend has literally just started her current job as a teacher in a newly set up school. She's the head of dept. and as such does most of the organising and heavy-lifting. The job that she's been offered pays 3 times as much, starts in January and is in a different country.
On the one hand she doesn't want to let the school down since she's only just started - though i pointed out that if she tells them they'll have time to find a replacement while she can sort out all the current problems/organising.
)
On the other hand this new job will be paying a lot more, be interesting in a different area and be closer to me. (Yes, i'm that great
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You're not selling out, you're buying in!
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One point in moving's favor is that you'll be freeing up a spot for a less-experienced journalist who needs the job more. Reporting positions that pay a decent wage can be tough to come by (or so I've been told).
Everything can be debated, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's debatable.
--Chuck Klosterman, Fargo Rock City
Any time you work for money, you're selling out. If it was so great, they wouldn't have to pay you to show up every day.
I'm in kind of the same boat right now, too; I had a great interview yesterday and if they make me an offer, I'll most likely take it. I'd feel guilty in leaving my current job because it would leave them in a tough position, but that's business for ya.
I generated a virtual world in the toilet bowl this morning.
-- Podunk on the PS3's mystical, magical abilities
Good thoughts all, but I want to repeat my advice, *if* you get the expected offer, take it back to the job you like before accepting. If your current job values you for what you are worth, they will make you a counter-offer. If they can't afford to pay you market value, move on. But you never know how deep they will dig until you come to the table with a better offer.
*Legion* wrote:
informationgames.info
http://twitter.com/nnschiller
I'm pretty sure "selling out" would only really apply if you stayed in your current job and took kickbacks from the energy companies for favourable reporting... hey new career path!
I know few folks who've "gone over" from games reporting to working in games (some came back), so I can relate to the irony here. I tend to be pretty hard on those guys (especially Luke Smith), but what it comes down to is if you're offered a chance to make good money doing something you love, or that interests you, you should take it, regardless of what other people think.
I went through a similar dilemma when I was offered my current job, but had to leave a number of things behind (including this community) in order to take it. But at the end of the day I realized a once-in-a-lifetime chance is just that, and I'd have been a fool not to take advantage of it.
Don't be saucy with me, Bernaise. - Count DeMonet
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