Ghosts of Abu Ghraib

HBO Documentaries released this year a documentary going over the entire clusterf*ck that is and was Abu Ghraib.

The film contains interviews with almost everyone that was involved except the hired ranked ones (Graner because he is in a military prison for 10 years, Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, etc).

I somehow missed all the news when this broke and had never seen any of the pictures or videos so this left quite a powerful impression on me. I've gone back and read some of the threads on the subject but I just don't know what to say to most of the comments left behind.

One of the things that stood out in the documentary was the photographer was holding her own photos as well as every single person that was interviewed showed telling signs to how far we have fallen.

Here is how I would summarize the whole situation and documentary. Some if not most of this is from the synopsis on the site.

  • Torture become an accepted practice at Abu Ghraib.
  • This administration defined torture into such a narrow scope that only three things could be considered torture.
  • While the White House and Pentagon claimed that the situation at Abu Ghraib was "a kind of animal house on the night shift," other on-site participants and observers maintain that the abuses at Abu Ghraib were part of a general pattern of a "gloves off" interrogation policy that had been put in place after 9/11.
  • GHOSTS OF ABU GHRAIB strongly suggests that, far from being an unauthorized, isolated event by rank-and-file soldiers acting on their own initiative, the physical and psychological torture employed at the prison was an inevitable outgrowth of military and government policies that were implemented in a climate of fear and chaos, inadequate training and insufficient resources.
  • In an effort to cover up the whole situation and to prevent further embarrassment, the Army issued a memo saying any photographs or videos of torture is considered contraband and is illegal to take them. The memo is shown in the documentary.
  • Soldiers stationed at Abu Ghraib were not trained as prison guards, yet as few as 300 of them were put in charge of up to 6,000 prisoners, who were held in squalid and dangerous conditions.
  • After numerous investigations, 11 low-ranking MPs and Military Intelligence corpsmen were court-martialed. Only one high-ranking officer has been penalized to date: Brigadier General Janis Karpinski was demoted to colonel and has since retired from the military. At the same time, other high-ranking officials associated with the scandal have been promoted and the chain of command has not been subject to an independent investigation.
  • Torture went from being the last thing on this countries' mind to being policy and kosher.
  • There still is no oversight on any of the organizations involved over there (CIA, MI, MP's, Army, etc)
  • Geneva conventions have been eroded even more, opening to door to even worse.
  • No avenue of whistle blowing is left if such a thing is still going on.
  • Gitmo is just as bad or worse as no press or lawyers were allowed.
  • 75 - 80% of those who were held in Abu Ghraib had no reason being there as they had no intelligence.
  • Women and children were held in captivity to use against the male prisoners with threat of harm with testimony from those who worked there.
  • America's credibility as a defender of freedom and human rights around the world was dropped to all time lows if not nothing at all.

The official site has the whole time line, tons of resources, and schedule or more airings for those who want to see it.

I don't know if it's because I now have a DVR or what, but lately HBO has been on a tear with a ton of excellent documentaries showcasing just how badly these things need to be in theaters for people to see.

Here is a list of all HBO/Cinemax documentaries.

I'm sure once Abu Ghraib is dead and buried we'll never have this problem again. After all, all this happened at Abu Ghraib because it was built on a sacred Indian (East Indian?) burial ground. It's not like it happens at any other US military prisons.

That's one of the problems asked in the documentary, how do we know? There isn't any oversight, transparency, and whistle blowing isn't allowed anymore.

Lobster was, I think, being facetious.

Malor wrote:

Lobster was, I think, being facetious.

Who, me?

Are you f*cking kidding me?

So he was cleared of charges that he ordering dogs to be used for interrogations; cruelty and maltreatment of prisoners who were allegedly subjected to forced nudity and intimidation by dogs; dereliction of a duty to properly train and supervise soldiers in interrogation rules; but was found guilty of disobeying an order not to discuss the case with other witnesses?

How {ableist slur}. (Saw via CNN on tv this morning)

Critics have long asked why the U.S. government has charged only low-ranking soldiers with serious crimes at Abu Ghraib, and why it did not pursue charges against civilian contractors, over whom it has jurisdiction, despite apparently abundant evidence against some of them, notably Stefanowicz. In fact, two U.S. military reports, one prepared by Maj. Gen. Anthony Taguba and the other by Maj. Gen. George Fay, assert that Stefanowicz was likely responsible for abuses at Abu Ghraib, something that his lawyer has firmly denied. Witnesses at the trials of Abu Ghraib defendants also described Stefanowicz as an active participant in abuse.

Didn't you get the memo? Torture's not a crime under the Bush administration, only disloyalty is.

General who probed Abu Ghraib says Bush officials committed war crimes

Pretty confirms what anyone with common sense has known for years now.

Edwin wrote:

General who probed Abu Ghraib says Bush officials committed war crimes

Pretty confirms what anyone with common sense has known for years now.

What, that the government and military has been infiltrated by liberal wingnuts?

Amazing that under the fairly liberal western torture standards of the Bush admin, these wackos went past them. Goes more to psyche of guards and jailers then anything else. You put a buncha people in a room full of people their told are the enemy, and take away all restrictions, bad bad sh*t will happen. Phil Zimbardo would have a field day with Abu

Doesn't the same apply to the military and the cops in general? No matter how disciplined and well-principled the troops are in their mass, due to the law of large numbers there will always be some scum which will float to the top and, when allowed, will abuse its power. The crucial question is, how could it happen that "take away all restrictions" part was allowed to happen.

WOW! This forum is kind of neat to peruse. Well, since I was very near there during that time, within a few miles of the prison I think I can kind of speak to a bit of what happened. A couple of things that was sort of “Left out” of the CNN/HBO picture.

First, the prisoners in there were not just “J-walkers”. One prisoner that I know of viscously murdered all the women in a man’s family starting with a new born girl and ending with the guy’s wife. About five in all. So… These just weren’t “Misunderstood” people. Oh, but wait… Women are less than human to them so was it really murder??

Second, It was war over there at that time. To guard prisoners during war was is not a “Sexy” job. That is a Military slang term for not a glamorous job to do when historic jobs are being performed all around you on a daily basis. It sounds cruel but it is what was real life over there then. What does that translate to……? If you have a dirt bag person that is in your unit, you get rid of them by sending them some place where they will not cause trouble and be out of site and out of mind…. Guarding those you rounded up in war and they do not have senior or adult supervision because that is not sexy either.

The true title of Abu Ghraib Prison should have been “Dirt Bags Gone Wild!” I can’t explain it any simpler than that.

Cheers,
Lone

Lone Sailor wrote:

The true title of Abu Ghraib Prison should have been “Dirt Bags Gone Wild!” I can’t explain it any simpler than that.

I can. The President of the United States declared that it was open season on anyone that we "thought" was a terrorist. These people took that as a sign that the gloves were off. Like it or not, it is the Army's job to make sure that things like this don't happen. And they failed. If our leadership had any guts at all, they would take responsibility, as they should - and being in the military you should know that. Is it any excuse in your unit that a commander "didn't know" about something that violated the UCMJ? That some subordinate committing a court-martial offense was an isolated incident that didn't reflect on the leader? If that's true, that worries me far more than what happened at Abu Ghraib.

Aetius wrote:

Is it any excuse in your unit that a commander "didn't know" about something that violated the UCMJ? That some subordinate committing a court-martial offense was an isolated incident that didn't reflect on the leader? If that's true, that worries me far more than what happened at Abu Ghraib.

LOL! It was not only not my unit but another service's unit. I was not Army. But yes there were things going on over there that would make your head spin. I am not condoning it merely stating facts. My team never went to the prison until about a year after the investigations ended. Then only in passing.

Shame the news media never let the Sheriton hotel to cover it or any other story.

Cheers,
Lone

Lone Sailor wrote:

LOL! It was not only not my unit but another service's unit. I was not Army.

Right - such things would not be tolerated in your unit, and if they did happen the leadership would take full responsibility. So why didn't that happen with Abu Ghraib? That's the real failure.