Help me buy my new PC
It's getting time to buy a new gaming PC...at least before the wife and I get serious about working on having Child #2. I negotiated a bonus with my company, so I have a little spare cash coming in and I wanna wanna wanna new PC. smile My current AMD 3000, 1G, AGP 9800 PC isn't cutting it anymore, not to mention it's burned out 2 X1600 Pro cards. I'm back to where I can't even play Simcity 4 anymore, damnit! I'm stuck in my existing system and with it killing video cards, it's either no more gaming or buy a new PC.
General Thoughts
These are general thoughts rattling around in my brainpan. The budget is around $1k. I don't need a monitor - I just bought a 22" Samsung widescreen (bitchin!). I do need new speakers (my 10 year old Yamahas are falling apart), keyboard (Acer that's 8 years old) and mouse. I don't need wireless devices. I need Vista since it's getting pretty stable and for DX10. I don't want to build it myself. Before anyone says anything, I've built a bunch of PCs since Jesus was young. I'm old, lazy and I don't want to install Vista myself. Ibuypower and Cyberpower have some great specials. I've not used either company. Alienware, which I have purchased, is more expensive and has since been purchased by Dell. Blech. So I'm open to all decent vendors who won't take 3 weeks to ship me a new PC. I play mostly RPGs, MMOs and strategy games. I don't do 1st person shooters. So I don't need to push the cutting edge, but I don't want to have to upgrade for at least 2 years. Again, the budget is $1k unless I really *have* to go over it slightly to get a vastly better PC.
Ok, so the major question is this: what do I buy and from whom do I buy it?
A couple of other minor questions:
a. Which one is better: 2x8500GTs in SLI or 1x8600GTS? At $1k, I might even be able to swing an 8800GTS 320MB but put that together with the 2G RAM necessary for any new system and I start creeping up to $1200. I'm really trying to stay at $1k. Any other DX10-compatible cards recommended? I'd go with the 7900s in SLI, but they don't do DX10.
b. Has onboard sound gotten any better in the past 3 years? I have onboard sound now and it's underwhelming. It doesn't help that my speakers suck, but I do miss decent sound. But I don't need anything that will wake the neighbors...those days are long gone.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
I realize this doesn't exactly address your questions, but there's some good information in The $1500 PC Thread that's worth taking a look at.
"Screw the speed of light, fan-boy rage is my new gold standard for measuring velocity." - Dr. J
"Lupus with a crowbar is the meaning of life itself." - Certis
I appreciate it, but I had already read that thread - that's 50% higher than I want to go and he's building his own anyway.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
I'd still build your own.
x1950 vid card $120
2 gigs pc5300 $80
E4300 cpu $120
gigabyte motherboard 965 chipset for around a $100 that overclocks.
That's the guts for a solid yet cheap gaming pc. $420.
I wouldn't get a 8600gts unless it's cheaper than an x1950 pro. The x1950 pro does DX9 better in most cases (afaik) and I don't think a 8600 gts is going to run upcoming DX10 games that well so I wouldn't pay a $50 premium for it over a x1950. We're due for new DX10 cards ( a refresh at least) from nvidia later this year anyway. And future proofing doesn't really exist in the pc world imo.
I think you'll get a way better gaming pc if you build your own. Plus you'll get your own copy of Vista which you might not get from a Dell or something.
On your budget I would stick with onboard sound. I'd probably upgrade my vid card to a 8800gts over a x1950 pro before I get a $100 sound card. I do like good sound, but I'm not as hardcore as I was 4 years ago. So good enough and free is well good enough. PLus Creative while nice at times always seems to have issues in certain games.
I'd easily go 8800gts before trying to SLI 8600gts's or 7900s. SLI really ain't the way to go unless you are doubling up the fastest card in order to get the fastest rig money can buy.
I prefer headphone gaming. It doesn't wake up neighbors or family. I think the sound positioning is better in headphones too. Lastly it takes up less room. YOu don't have wires laying around which is great if you have a less permanent or less ideal setup. I'm always moving my crap around and the ideal position for rear speaker is in the middle of my floor which doesn't work that well. I miss the nice 'ole bass at times, but I'll live. I would recommend headphones that surround your ear instead of sit on it. Much more comfortable. Sennheiser is one brand to check out.
Anyway if you end up just buying a pc the $1500 thread is full of suggestions for parts to purchase. Not all lead up to $1500. Price these out and then compare that to your Dell or I buy power or Cyberpower... pc. That's all.
I appreciate the advice. I won't build my own...I've done it too many times and there are always complications that I don't want to deal with. I built this last one and between the FoxConn mobo and the video cards that keep going out, I've decided to make this project someone elses problem.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
In general since SLI really never doubles the performance its always better to get a single more expensive "faster" card than two slower cards in hope they will outperform the single card. That being said looking for DX10 performance out of the current crop of DX 10 cards (Nvidia 8 series and ATI HD2X series) is probably a lost cause. Early benchmarks in some DX 10 games under Vista leave a lot to be desired even from the 8800 Ultra in SLI. Now that could be Driver or Game specific or just Developers still understanding how to best program for DX10 but it certainly is something to consider.
So in saying that.. the X1950 is certain an excellent value as that will play DX9 games very well under most circumstances at that price point.. BUT if you can spring for the 8800GTS that would be the best card.. as that pushes DX9 games very well.
Yes.. but its still fairly crappy.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
85's face the truth you're too dumb.
http://www.myspace.com/armyofthepharaohs
I'll build you a top-of-the-line Dell for $4000.
Elysium: The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid.
XBL: E Munnie
elementsofmeaning.blogspot.com
That's not hard. Add an extra gig of ram to any of their rig's and you're a good part of the way there.
XBLive: Thin J
PSN: Thin_J
I don't imagine master craftsmen leaping away from completed projects and shouting "Done, motherf*ckers! - 1Dgaf
Quiet, you fool!
Elysium: The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid.
XBL: E Munnie
elementsofmeaning.blogspot.com
Hey, as long as you guys are talking PCs, I have a basic memory upgrade question. I've got 1 gig now in my machine with 512k in two slots, and two slots remaining. Do I have to fill those slots with 512ks as well, or can I put in a single 1 gig and mix and match with the existing memory?
I'm pretty sure you can do that on any current chipset. You may take a speed hit, however, if you're running dual-channel... the new memory will be single-channel at best. You won't notice on a single-core Athlon or Core/Core2. You might be able to feel it some on dual-core, or on any P4, even with just a single CPU.
Also, if you have an S754 Athlon, many of those chips have trouble running more than 2 banks; it's fairly common to have to dial back your RAM speed at 3 or 4 chips. You'll get more of a boost from the extra RAM than you'll lose from the clockspeed, but it's still suboptimal. Intel chips, with their outboard memory controllers, don't have that problem.
If you can afford it, doing 2 1gb chips is probably your best solution... and then never upgrade RAM again on this machine, because going past 3gb is painful.
Oh, one thing I forgot: don't mix different memory types in the same bank of 2.
I can vouch for no noticeable difference between dual and single channel on a 3 GHz P4. Games run smoother with 2GB than 1GB as general loading is better. I had an article i used to quote that basically showed that unless you're doing continuously massively complex and quick swapping data then you don't notice the slightly lower times of single-channel. I'll see if i can dig it out.
A blog: by me!
EGGmen - A European gaming blog *Episode 3 now live*
Does anyone have a PC supplier that I should particularly avoid? Or someone who you'd recommend?
I am so going to quote that out of context.
digitalstormonline.com is a new boutique builder that several people have recommended
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
85's face the truth you're too dumb.
http://www.myspace.com/armyofthepharaohs
I know you said, 'Blech' to Dell but I priced you an Inspirion 410 for $899. I have had good experience with Dell and so have my friends and family. Just some info for you.
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6320
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM)
Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
No Monitor
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT-DDR3
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Dell USB Keyboard
Dell Optical USB Mouse
No Floppy Drive Included
This doesn't include a fancy warranty, monitor, or floppy.
I can't remember from where but I recall that iBuypower had been getting some bad press lately.
"If Blizzard announces a subscription fee for Diablo III we will have to build a second Internet to make room for all the complaining." - muttonchop
Careful with this as when Dell drops the warranty they tend to trot out lots of refurbished parts.
Aside from that I would say that the warranty is the only reason you could talk me into buying a brand name machine, Dell in particular has come a long way in the last few years.
Warrior Asherr
Hunter Ghorin
What I'm thinking about is this (for about $1,100):
- Case ( Nzxt Hush Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply Black )
- Power Supply ( 500 Watt -- NZXT PF-500 Power Supply )
- Processor ( AMD Athlon™64 X2 5400+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology )
- Processor Cooling ( Thermaltake MaxOrb CPU Cooling Fan System Kit)
- Motherboard ( MSI K9N4 SLI-F NVIDIA nForce 500-SLI MCP Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, Dual PCI-E MB )
- Memory ( 2048MB [1024MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Corsair-Value or Major Brand )
- Video Card ( NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB w/DVI + TV Out Video )
- Hard Drive ( 500 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache] )
- CD/DVD Drive ( 16x DVD-ROM Drive Black )
- CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( 18X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black )
- Sound Card ( 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard )
- Speaker System ( Logitech X-230 2.1 Configuration Speakers System )
- Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )
- Keyboard ( Logitech Deluxe Keyboard Black )
- Mouse ( Logitech Optical Internet Mouse Black )
- USB 2.0 Accessories ( Build-in USB 2.0 Ports )
- Operation System ( Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32-Bit )
- Case Round Cable ( Rounded Cables for Floppy/HDD/CD/DVD/CD-RW/DVD-RW Drives )
- Warranty ( Warranty Service Standard 3-Year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support )
Decent? Crap? Problems?
I am so going to quote that out of context.
spec's look pretty good.. your getting a fairly generic Case and Power Supply but other than that it seems solid for gaming.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
85's face the truth you're too dumb.
http://www.myspace.com/armyofthepharaohs
Yeah I'm assuming from the list style you're buying from Cyberpower? Not something I'd do, but to each their own.
The rig does look pretty good.
I'm not much of an NZXT fan though.
XBLive: Thin J
PSN: Thin_J
I don't imagine master craftsmen leaping away from completed projects and shouting "Done, motherf*ckers! - 1Dgaf
Ibuypower.
Most everyone has either limited upgrades (Dell, Gateway) or seems to want to go very upmarket (Alienware, Falcon). I'm not finding many other decent vendors out there who can get within even $100 of their prices. To give some examples, Velocity Micro wants almost $1,400 for the same system. DigitalStorm wants about $1,300. Alienware? $1,650. Only Cyberpower and AeonCraft come close in price to Ibuypower and I don't know the difference between any of these guys.
As for the case, as long as the power is pure and the fans keep it cool, I don't really care about the case itself. Hence the rounded cables in the spec above...they can help quite a bit.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
Ibuypower, Cyberpower, and Aeoncraft are, as far as I know... all pretty much the same thing with minor differences in the services they offer.
I'd also note that Ibuypower has a pretty mediocre rating on resellerratings.com and there's at least a couple of people on this board that have some nice horror stories related to computers they bought there. That said... there's others that are perfectly happy.
Luck of the draw and all that.
To me it's a "get what you pay for" thing. I think I'd pay the extra scratch for something from Velocity Micro. I'm like that though.
XBLive: Thin J
PSN: Thin_J
I don't imagine master craftsmen leaping away from completed projects and shouting "Done, motherf*ckers! - 1Dgaf
Thanks Thin. To be precise, the $1,400 VM has a slower processor (5400 vs. 5000), is one optical drive short, doesn't have the same cooling, no rounded cables and has 180GB less hard drive space. That's a lot less to accept while paying a 20% premium and I don't see what I'd get from Velocity Micro that would justify that much extra dough. I can't say I'm happy about Ibuy's rating, but Dell and Gateway are far, far worse. Alienware isn't much better. Falcon NW isn't much better either.
Cyberpower has ratings close to VM...maybe that's the way to go.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
Ah. I was assuming you were comparing prices on identical hardware. That does change things a little bit.
I'm really not sure how I'd go about making this exact decision. Cyberpower does seem better off on resellerratings and you do have at least one person championing how nice their own rig from that store has been so far over at GT. I guess if I had to go with one of them that'd be my choice.
Stuff like this is kind of why I started building my own rigs.
XBLive: Thin J
PSN: Thin_J
I don't imagine master craftsmen leaping away from completed projects and shouting "Done, motherf*ckers! - 1Dgaf
ARISE!
My Radeon 9800 AGP video card is caput, and I'm thinking of doing a proper upgrade (unless someone has an a comparable AGP card I could get cheap), one of those nasty ones where I buy a new motherboard and my current parts don't fit in the old slots. After poking around on Newegg, I have discovered I don't really know what's going on anymore. So:
Intel E4300 sounds good. Correct?
My drives are IDE, and I'm not going to upgrade them - too much work. Most motherboards I saw are SATA only. Is IDE backwards compatible with SATA?
What's a good mid-range NVidia card?
Xbox Live: StaatsM
I've really not paid a whole lot of attention to the overclocking possibilities with the new processors, but if you are not planning on overclocking here is a good set of charts to give you an idea of how they perform at stock speeds compared to each other:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/07/16/cpu_charts_2007/page14.html
I personally felt like $200 for the E6750 was a reasonable price for the type of performance it is putting out according to those charts, so that is what I picked for the machine I just ordered.
A lot of motherboards with SATA support also have at least one IDE connector, so I would just check the motherboard specs for an IDE port before you pull the trigger. SATA and IDE ports are different so you can't use a SATA drive on a board without a SATA port. To show you what I am talking about:
The small pink connectors are SATA, and the blue and white connectors are IDE.
Hard drives and DVD burners are so cheap nowadays I went ahead and got both in SATA just so I didn't have those wide gray cables blocking air in my case.
I always try to go for the most bang for your buck. For between $270 and $320 (depending on the brand and whether it is factory overclocked) you can get an 8800 GTS. For me, the GTX and the Ultra ($500 and $600+) were not so much faster than the GTS that I felt like I had to have them with my budget. The 8800 GTS though is a huge leap over the 8600 GTS from what I've seen in these charts:
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html
Here is the system I have ordered and plan on building:
GIGABYTE GA-P35C-DS3R Intel Core 2 Duo (Desktop) Socket 775 1333MHz FSB DDR3 1066MHz ATX Motherboard Retail ***Free Shipping*** $167.99
PIONEER DVR-212DBK 18X SATA DVD Burner Black DVD±RW Bulk ***Free Shipping*** $41.49
INTEL Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66GHz FSB1333MHz 4M LGA775 Retail BX80557E6750 Processor Retail ***Free Shipping*** $209.90
WESTERN DIGITAL WD3200AAKS 320GB USB/eSATA 7200 RPM 16MB Hard Drive Retail ***Free Shipping*** $74.30
THERMALTAKE Soprano RS 101 VG7000BNS Mid Tower Case Retail ***Free Shipping*** $59.99
XFX PVT80GGHD GeForce 8800GTS 320MB XXX DDR3 PCI-Express Video Card w/Dual DVI & HDTV-Out Retail ***Free Shipping*** $319.99
(comes with Lost Planet and a $30 mail in rebate, and has a Double Lifetime warranty)
Coolermaster RP-600-PCAR eXtreme Power 600W Power Supply Retaill ***Free Shipping*** $64.99
OCZ OCZ2P800R22GK 2GB Kit DDR2 PC2-6400 Platinum Revision 2 Dual Channel Memory Retail ***Free Shipping*** $112.90
Estimated Subtotal $1051.55
From www.zipzoomfly.com
Free shipping and no tax, at least for my state
Tobyus
Still searching for the perfect game...
Last edited by Tobyus on Sep 14, 2006 - 02:06 PM; edited 1,000,000 times in total
I have an 8800GTS in a very similar machine. It drives my 1920x1200 screen flawlessly. Amazing card.
Good to hear!
I am really tempted to add Vista Home Premium 64 bit to my order since they haven't shipped it yet... Everything I am seeing seems to indicate that the main compatibility issues are with hardware configurations different from mine. (4GB ram + X-Fi sound card). I've looked at articles concerning Vista compatibility with the games that I own or plan on buying and so far none of them have any issues or major loss of performance. I don't think I would mind losing a few frames per second (off of 100) to have an OS that I will be able to keep using for several years.
Tobyus
Still searching for the perfect game...
Last edited by Tobyus on Sep 14, 2006 - 02:06 PM; edited 1,000,000 times in total
Just remember that it has DRM built-in, down to the very core. Things like recording your own audio are purposely difficult, because you might steal music. In 'protected playback' mode, the system is actually checking itself thirty times a second to see if you're a thief yet... it deliberately makes the computer less stable because you might be misusing it. Your own computer. Misusing it.
That may not bother you, but I personally find it completely objectionable. There's no way I'd ever run it on a machine I cared about. Maybe a dedicated gaming machine, but not one I actually worked on.
Thanks for bumping the thread.
I've bumped up my budget a bit and I'm almost certain I'm going to buy this:
CASE: CoolerMaster Stacker 830 Tower 420W Case W/ Side-panel Window
CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6750 CPU @ 2.66GHz 1333FSB 4MB L2 Cache 64-bit
MOTHERBOARD: (Quad-Core FSB1333) Asus P5N-E nForce 650i SLI Chipset LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2 Mainboard
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: NEW!!! NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Optical Drive: (Special Price) 18X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: 16X DVD ROM (BLACK COLOR)
SOUND: 3D WAVE ON-BOARD 5.1 SOUND CARD
Of course, it includes speakers, mouse, keyboard a 600 watt power supply and liquid cooling for $1,359 shipped.
That is, if I don't buy an X-Box 360 first.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
Liquid cooling? :0 Who are you ordering this from?
Looks good to me though
Oh, and Malor, I primarily use my PC for gaming nowadays. I occasionally use it for converting home videos to DVD and as storage for all of my pictures, but ever since graduating college, I've rarely used my PC for anything else. My job provides me with a laptop capable of doing anything I need it to for work, so I never use my PC for anything productive
I've got 2 XP machines in the house that will still be plenty decent for anything Vista won't let me do, so I am mainly worried about game performance and system stability.
Tobyus
Still searching for the perfect game...
Last edited by Tobyus on Sep 14, 2006 - 02:06 PM; edited 1,000,000 times in total
Cyberpower.
I am so going to quote that out of context.