House Painting Contractors - Shady?
Maybe this should go in Tech & Help?
We decided this summer we'd repaint the exterior of our new house. It's a dirty white and we wanted to spruce it up and do something a little fun. Talked to a lot of contractors and found one we liked. Reasonable bid. Lived in the neighborhood. Seemed responsible.
We got a contract, paid half up front and were set. Our first frustration is the work started late. Fine. It's house painting and not our kitchen so we can deal with some delays.
However, he's asking us to settle up for the materials he's purchased thus far despite not actually being done. Seems odd. He's also now telling us that the color of the trim paint we picked out is going to require a second coat or primer and that's going to raise the cost. We planned for some "unexpected expense" (rotten boards and so on) but a second coat hardly seems unexpected.
Thoughts? Does this all seem normal? Or am I being taken for a ride?
Xbox Live: Trashie
Painting contractors are always shady. Everyone in my family always used my mom's cousin, who lives in Deforest, I think. He was shady to his won family sometimes -- though no too badly and I think it was usually his partner's fault.
Anyway, I think he quit.
Fun fact he told me about painters: They all abuse substances. When most of your job is about actually watching paint dry, I guess there's not much else. My first thoughts, though: reading and video games.
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When we painted our house exterior, we paid up front for all of the materials as they were purchased. This was the same with a handyman I paid to replace some of our siding. I don't see this as unreasonable as otherwise they are basically fronting you the cost of the materials.
As for the second coat business, you'll just have to go on what the references you checked on the guy told you about his trustworthiness.
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Hopefully you guys have a signed contract that spells out the payment schedule - if he's not following that, then there's a problem. As for additional expenses, if you can, run it by another contractor to see if the additional coat seems legit. That said, you should always add 10-15% to a contractors bid to get an idea of what it might cost in the end, in my experience.
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I don't know abroad but here you pay for the materials up front. You own them anyway, you'r eonly paying for the handywork.
I don't know about the rest.
Honestly most handymen we've used are recommended by someone.
The man wears a bucket of KFC on his head. I wouldn't expect anything less. - Pred
* Disclaimer * I painted for College Pro for a summer (3 months), so while I picked up on a few things about the business of painting, I wouldn't call myself an expert.
I'm assuming the colour of the trim paint is dark? Putting a dark colour on dirty white is going to require multiple coats, unless the quality of the paint is exceptionally high. If he's buying the paint for you.. is he is buying the quality stuff? or the cheap stuff? Take a look at the paint cans and compare prices at a paint store. Most painters prefer painting with quality paint, so it's not a given that he would buy cheap paint if he had a choice. If the paint is a cheap brand though, he really should have seen that he would need two coats.
Perhaps the contractor was being hopeful that his paint would cover the trim, but he could have saved himself time and you money by just putting a coat of dark primer on it first so that the much more expensive paint was sure to cover the surface.
Nihilo's right. Bear in mind that professional painters usualyl get great discounts on paint, too.
Elysium: The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid.
XBL: E Munnie
elementsofmeaning.blogspot.com
If you've paid half up front, that should cover his cost of materials and show that you CAN pay. Him coming to you for materials money when you've already paid half is grade A crap. Running business like that in the field I work in would get you thrown out the door and black balled in no time.
Certis beat me to it. - Elysium
Any contractor that quotes a price and a time frame should have the experience to know how much a job is going to cost and how long it's going to take. Unless the weather has been extraordinarily bad or there is some kind of major incident going on then there is no reason to go outside the budget and time frame by very much at all. The quote includes the paint and supplies you wanted. Any additions after the initial assortment then adds to the end cost. If you feel the job is not even close to done then ask yourself how much did he do and how much did the paint cost. You can easily just make an estimate by going to the local hardware store. Can you see what kind of paint he is using? That will make the estimate even closer.
Personally I believe if he quoted you a price and he is now asking for more money for supplies used and needed and because you mention he is late all the time and generally not reliable then do not give him the money. Fire him, say sorry, he keeps the money you have paid him and you find someone else to finish the job. That's just the way it goes with contractors. Use your personal judgment, if things don't feel right they probably aren't. Don't let a crook take you for more money just because they can't budget their own business.
That's my advice.
Prederick wrote:
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis.
Yes you are on a ride. Except for a rare occaision that a contractor has to buy something custom that he can't return. You should never need to give him money again until the job is completed. As far as start time and length of project. Tardiness and delays are extremely common. I don't use contractors alot but when I do I try to work it this way. A good contractor that is reliable is also usually negotiable. I try to pay 25% up front and have another 25% waiting for him when he shows. Most reasonable contractors understand home owner worries and will make this deal.
As far as painters. I've worked as a tradesmen since I was a child and have known some good painters. However, I would be on a jobsite for months at a time. The only time mine or any one elses tools disappeared was when the drywallers and painters showed up on the job. Painters and drywallers are the bottom feeders of the skilled trades. The geeks that install cable tv rate higher.
Go for their eyes boo
Don't give the guy another dime until the job is finished. He's taking you for a ride.
First of all, you shouldn't pay 50% up front. That's a rip-off right there. Construction firms usually pay on a percentage complete basis with 10% retainage held back as an incentive to complete the job correctly. On small jobs you may be asked to front the material cost, but paint is so very cheap that if the guy can't front paint cost, you don't want him around your house anyway. On a typical painting job, it's about 85% labor cost and 15% material cost...so ultimately the guy is asking for money for labor that he hasn't performed yet. Don't give it to him.
If the guy is still putting primer on and asking for more money, he's not anywhere close to done. Ask to see the materials he's purchased for the job. If he can't supply them, ask what he's done with the 50% you've paid him - after all, that should have more than covered paint/primer. If he can't/won't produce it, give him the option of getting further along in the job before any more money is released or get ready to sue him in small claims court.
Of course, I work in construction every day and that's just my opinion.
I am so going to quote that out of context.
Is he using Latex or Oil based paint?
Putting a second coat on your trim should've been included in the quote. This should not take very much extra time either (If he is painting with Latex based paint) because when painting outside, by the time you are done painting around a window or door you can almost start your second coat. Dry time is affected by your environment, humidity, etc. but with any darker colour, you should expect two coats, even with high quality paint. If he is using Oil based paint, then that would be definately more time consuming (dry time and cleanup, not application), but a second coat should've been expected here as well, so still not a good reason to charge you more for materials.
Do not give them any more money.
Do not give them any more money.
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Well, I've got bad news and good news for you.
But before we get to that, he's using a high quality paint at our request (Sherwin-Williams Duration - Latex). It's also been pretty humid here in Wisconsin but we've pretty much had no rain since he's started. And it's looking OK.
The bad news: we agreed to settle up with the local paint store regarding the cost of materials so far. I talked with him yesterday about it about it and he's trying to save himself some interest (apparently that $1500 up front didn't go to materials). I know its not my responsibility but I'm trying to be generous.
The good news: we've (by this I mean my stronger willed wife-to-be) refused to pay anything above the bid. He claims he didn't think we would pick a light colored trim to go over the current dark color trim and so he didn't bring a second coat into the bid. That's not our fault as the bid wasn't contingent on color choice and we don't feel we should pay extra for it.
Anyways, he hemmed and hawed for a bit and said we'd play it by ear. Updates to follow.
Xbox Live: Trashie