What would _you_ like in a MMORPG?
Now I know this has been mentioned (repeatedly) before, in fact, there's a thread on it now. However, I'd like input on what you would like in a MMORPG.
The reason for this is simple. I've got a MMORPG in development. It's an open source project, largely in the design phase, so my resources for development are a bit, well, limited.
Basically, I'd like some ideas. I have a fantasy setting essentially solid. (By this, I mean the fantasy setting I'm using was in actual development as a MUD. I just wanted to do more than I could with that.) Most of my experience with online games is with MUDs, and FPS types. So I get the idea the balance of play is a bit different. (I played UO, but I don't remember much. My favorite poison in commercial MMO games was Shattered Earth.)
First, I'd like to get opinions on which perspective would be better.
I.E. Over-the-shoulder (Think Gothic, but a third person shooter isn't that far off the mark.) or more like an action-rpg. (Meaning top-down isometric, Diablo, Sacred, and the like.)
I like the over-shoulder better, personally. But I'm a competent action gamer.
So, the workable idea for now is keyboard movement, with a mouse interface, from a top-down perspective. It just feels _weird_ to me to control everything with the mouse. Not to mention mis-clicks using a ranged weapon putting you in range of something you *really* don't want to be.
Also, an idea of what actually works would be nice. I'm a bit used to MUDs, and being able to mine/fish/dig up/farm stuff, make your own weaponry and armor... and so on. Does that work in MMORPGs?
Also, for a game that combat is not the sole focus, what other MMORPG elements are shown to _not_ work. The more pitfalls I can avoid out of paying attention, the better.
The dynamic setting is one that I actually have a few implementations of. (My first coded game was a rather deep trade simulator in medieval times, so I have a general idea of how to make dynamic elements work.)
Time/Day/Date actually isn't too hard either, from the perspective of I've actually coded this before. (Hacking up a Open Source MUD engine gives one all kinds of ideas.)
The main problem with this is balancing believability/tedium. (I.E, trade and road travel... without making the player walk across a large world. Travel time works similar.)
Of main concern while I'm working on the core engine are these:
Time/Day/Date: What do you think a good balance of real-time to game-time is? Does the general standard of 1 minute real world to one hour game world work?
Perspective and controls: This goes into the core quick, so this is kinda important. Behind-the-shoulder, isometric, mouse-driven, keyboard+mouse? What works for you?
Visual Style: This one is probably the most urgent. I'm working off a zlib (I.E, do anything you want with it license.) engine, so I can rip the thing apart and rebuild it, if needed. Main issue, I want it to work on Windows, Linux, and later Mac. (I don't have the fuzziest idea of how to code for a mac though. Never owned one.) So DirectX is out, I'll be working with OpenGL, and my current computer fails. So what visual elements are important, and what could I cut corners on.
And the last of the mission-critical, the networking component.
Bare metal aside, most of what I'm curious about from the end-user, is how you want it to work. I.E, how the servers should be laid out, how you want the zone transitions (or lack thereof.) to work, and if I should take the separate-server-separate-world tack. (Academic at this point, but it will matter LOADS later.) Personally, I lean towards a unified infrastructure, just load-balanced. (Different continents are different servers, with a central character base.)
Also important is how the character system should work. I don't really like restrictive classes, but I hear most of the designs that chuck that bit out don't work. How could I make it work?
Mostly, I'm looking for ideas. But if someone is willing to contribute art (concept, 3d, or texture, I'm not picky.) or if someone knows C++ (or the scripting language I'm embedding, Lua.) and/or is good with network code, I'd dearly appreciate the help. (Netcode, and 2d textures are probably my biggest weaknesses, so help would be fantastic in those areas.)
Hopefully I'll have some demos ready soon... Right now it's ugly, hacked to bits, and doesn't work on windows. (Nor most other linux systems, I've got most of my external libraries just duct-taped in for now.)
Secret Asian Man wrote:
I have been penentrated from behind more times than Richard Simmons
As for the subscription fee, none planned, none ever accepted. I'm a poor kid, so I've got a massive issue with subscription games.
The base engine itself (The entire network infrastructure, the backbone of the graphics, and all of the tie-ins to the scripting language) will all be released under the GPL.
At a _much_ later date, I'll knock out all the GPL code, and release it under the zlib license, basically meaning you can use it for _any_ use.
And as for the crafting, or peaceful success, that's one of my main points.
Along with that's an ability to give lower-leveled players quests. (They'd be simple, like go kill this thing on my road, or bring me x rare metal.)
As for the precise how for crafting, I havn't decided yet. Once I have a working model of it, would some of you be opposed to testing it?
I'm getting together some basic models together, to tack what I have together.
I've got someone else helping with the writing, and I'll post that somewhere in the next week or so, once I have it fleshed out enough that you don't have to know the world to make sense of it.
Basic design points so far are:
Classless: I don't like restrictive classes.
Skill-based EXP: I.E, using the merchant skill will net you EXP towards global level. As will mining, crafting, and so on.
Not solely combat oriented: It's possible to not use a sword in battle, and still be successful.
And the world is fairly large, with a few rewarding points of interest. I have the general map for the first continent done, just requires some cleaning, and I'll post that too.
Though I am still working on it not being tedious, and not unhinging trade.
As for persistant characters, I'm undecided. It'd suck for warriors, but be a godsend for not. So I've got no idea for implementing that.
Secret Asian Man wrote:
I have been penentrated from behind more times than Richard Simmons
Here's the promised map: 
I only prettied it up slightly.... So it's still basically the flowchart looking thing I actually use, lol. Circles are dungeons, squares are towns. (Except the Bleak Abbey is both. And the other place I actually have a rough skeleton of.)
Razor Ridges, and the Broken Mountains are mountains, and form two of the walls of the continent (and world, for now.) So does the River Styx, though it's more of an inland sea... The lost Wharf, and Black Bay are both port towns... Ashland agricultural, and the Necropolis is where everyone starts, and the main city. There's also other areas inside of the larger areas, just not on the map.
The initial design document is a HORRID mess now... so that's gonna take some refining before anyone but me could understand it.
Secret Asian Man wrote:
I have been penentrated from behind more times than Richard Simmons
Some things that I would love to see in a MMORPG would be the resurrection of dreams lost due to technological limitations and the resulting decisions that went into making of Everquest 1 that everyone else continues to copy mindlessly 8 years later.
- WYSIWYG - what you see IS actually what you get, in realtime. No fireballs flying through trees. No "I got away I am aliOH WAIT I WAS DEAD FOR THE PAST 3 SECONDS " phenomena (not caused by connection lag, but by the "relaxed" way in which MMORPG servers process and send out information). I want UDP, not TCP/IP-based protocols, and I want at least 7 updates per second ... current MMORPGs appear to settle for around 3.
- More organic control over everything. For instance, as an almighty powerful mage trying to protect a low-level guy running away from incoming fireballs, I should be able to scroll the middle mouse button to scale up my shield and envelop him inside it. The larger the shield, the thinner it is. Possibly the shield isn't even a complete sphere, but a wide "searchlight" which I can rotate in realtime (but slowly), which adds some strategy similar to the shields in Star Trek universe.
- No "universe bubble", where you're galloping through the hills discovering Ogres and other players just blatantly "materialize" as you come closer.
I want an intelligent prioritization of network bandwidth in regards to the information sent to me about the other players. The farther something is, the less times per second it is updated. This should allow to conserve enough bandwidth to reach a lot farther around the player and match the radius of the bubble to the radius where the scenery stops being drawn.
Think about it - I can't affect anything about an encounter thats happening on the horizon, so for all I care, I am fine with receiving 1 packet update per 3 seconds about that. The rest the engine can interpolate (make look smooth) on its own. - No "players can go through other players" crap. Yes collision detection can take a lot of CPU time, but not nearly as much if you don't care about being pixel-perfect. In the latter case it will just eat a lot of memory (on the MMORPG server) and memory is cheap.
- Active storytellers hired fulltime to create quests on the fly, change the scenery and track the story. They will adapt to the faction struggles in the actual game and weave them into the story, among other things, create monuments (very rarely), to some players, and generally act as mini-gods. The inn in Westfall WILL eventually get built, and it will actually LOOK built, until some storyteller will link a real invasion by the Horde (with player names, even) into the destruction of the nearby blacksmith's house.
- Given above, some quests will involve bounty on other players. Legends will rise.
Well, shihonage you'll be happy, as I am using UDP, with some occasional critical packets through TCP. (Mainly lobby login.)
Also, my primary forte is that of a creative writer (What initially drew me to a MUD.) and I have another person on hand helping with the writing. And neither of us like static, "stuck" things either.
By the way, property buying/selling/building is being written in. It was awesome in MUDs, so no reason I shouldn't bring it over. My main issue is adding land to zones as needed (I.E, a new player, a new room in the tower of novices.) without breaking what's there. But that's just messy coding on my part, so I'll sort it eventually.
Secret Asian Man wrote:
I have been penentrated from behind more times than Richard Simmons
Well, shihonage you'll be happy, as I am using UDP, with some occasional critical packets through TCP. (Mainly lobby login.)Also, my primary forte is that of a creative writer (What initially drew me to a MUD.) and I have another person on hand helping with the writing. And neither of us like static, "stuck" things either.
By the way, property buying/selling/building is being written in. It was awesome in MUDs, so no reason I shouldn't bring it over. My main issue is adding land to zones as needed (I.E, a new player, a new room in the tower of novices.) without breaking what's there. But that's just messy coding on my part, so I'll sort it eventually.
Have you thought about basing your game in historical past or overlaying your game with veiled history? You could mine all manner of stuff in Western Europe and the Near East.
I've always loved the idea of perpetual, GM-esque characters that have powers beyond the rank and file that are able to both interact with the players and interact with the game on a scale that is unavailable to players. Instead of having droll Queen Blah-blah passing out quests, having a real player running the Queen adds a bit of flavor and weight to the encounter and the game. Watching her retinue travelling through town would be a sight in and of itself.
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
No "players can go through other players" crap. Yes collision detection can take a lot of CPU time, but not nearly as much if you don't care about being pixel-perfect. In the latter case it will just eat a lot of memory (on the MMORPG server) and memory is cheap
I've always wondered how much "cooler" WoW's BG's would be if players actually had "weight" to them.. so that annoying gnome rogue couldn't just phase right through me every time I was trying to hamstring his sorry little butt.
Imagine a Tauren not only having his model be an actually obstacle.. but physics applied to his movements.. so him running into a puny gnome would actually cause that gnome to get knocked back or down..and vice versa that same Gnome being able to run through a Taurens legs and stab him quickly from behind.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
Have you thought about basing your game in historical past or overlaying your game with veiled history? You could mine all manner of stuff in Western Europe and the Near East.I've always loved the idea of perpetual, GM-esque characters that have powers beyond the rank and file that are able to both interact with the players and interact with the game on a scale that is unavailable to players. Instead of having droll Queen Blah-blah passing out quests, having a real player running the Queen adds a bit of flavor and weight to the encounter and the game. Watching her retinue travelling through town would be a sight in and of itself.
I like the idea of escaping the cardboard fantasy setting a lot.
I also wanted to add that actual GM/DMs in games are great. The more you can be like an old UO private RP shard, the happier I'll be! 
The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid. - Elysium
Wordsmythe is my hero. - rabbit
XBL: E Munnie
If I had a wish list, number one on the list would be this: Mobs drop the loot they are carrying when they attack you and no wolf would drop a bastard sword of gnome melting. If I see kobald with a hammer and a shield, by golly I want to pick that up when he is dead. I do not want a kobald dropping things a kobald would not have nor did have when it was alive. In a p&p rpg and in old CRPG like the gold box games when you dropped a guy wielding an axe, you got that axe whether he was a mook or a boss.
I would caution anyone doing an MMORPG to stay out of the fantasy genre considering how bloated it is but since you are already going down that road I say, good luck!
There are two kinds of men in the world, those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.
BlackSheep wrote:
Have you thought about basing your game in historical past or overlaying your game with veiled history? You could mine all manner of stuff in Western Europe and the Near East.I've always loved the idea of perpetual, GM-esque characters that have powers beyond the rank and file that are able to both interact with the players and interact with the game on a scale that is unavailable to players. Instead of having droll Queen Blah-blah passing out quests, having a real player running the Queen adds a bit of flavor and weight to the encounter and the game. Watching her retinue travelling through town would be a sight in and of itself.
I like the idea of escaping the cardboard fantasy setting a lot.
I also wanted to add that actual GM/DMs in games are great. The more you can be like an old UO private RP shard, the happier I'll be!
I really think that an MMO that focuses on a historical perspective in the way that WWII has been focused on for FPS and RTS lately would work quite well. Why do we have to keep killing orcs and demons and goblins and the like? Why can't man be bad enough? That's something I really think I'll enjoy about Conan... there just isn't much of that in the world and the stuff that is there, well, its rare and awe-inspiring. The trick is to incorporate the legends and myths sparingly and carefully to make them seem magical and tale-worthy. I shouldn't just be able to walk a little ways out of town down the road and run into a Phoenix (unless I'm in Mesa).
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
I really think that an MMO that focuses on a historical perspective in the way that WWII has been focused on for FPS and RTS lately would work quite well. Why do we have to keep killing orcs and demons and goblins and the like? Why can't man be bad enough? That's something I really think I'll enjoy about Conan... there just isn't much of that in the world and the stuff that is there, well, its rare and awe-inspiring. The trick is to incorporate the legends and myths sparingly and carefully to make them seem magical and tale-worthy. I shouldn't just be able to walk a little ways out of town down the road and run into a Phoenix (unless I'm in Mesa).
Somewhere in the universe there must be something better than man. 
The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid. - Elysium
Wordsmythe is my hero. - rabbit
XBL: E Munnie
As far as setting goes, it's not your standard fluff fantasy setting. It works in books, but as far as a million games go... bleh. Kinda hard to tell now, but if anything, it's a bit dystopic fantasy, dark, messy, and with a pretty through lack of the fluffy happy stuff.
Like, there's one player race, no classes, levels in far more of a general idea of power use...
One thing I do like with fantasy though.... it makes setting up a workable, playable world easier. If physics are a constant hindrance to something, I can bend it a bit, and still keep perfect internal consistency.
And besides, if I do ever get around to the modern MMO... it won't have a ton of resemblance to what's out now. So it's a bit easier to take small steps.
The inital plan was for a modern MMO, but my hardware won't support it. (As a rule, modern games have far more calculations, updates, so on.) Not to mention the extra time with the mass variety of weapons, and everything else. It's easier to hammer out swords, and use textures with displacement maps to differentiate them a lot, then do everything for the gun system I had. (I.E, 20-30 different parts plus chassis for every style of gun.)
Characters will have collision detection, it's actually already done 
.
I love the idea of characters being able to change the world, and all of the associated trauma with that.
I was toying with using an actual physics engine, but for now, I had to drop it, too much additional calculation and network stress.
Secret Asian Man wrote:
I have been penentrated from behind more times than Richard Simmons
I've always wondered how much "cooler" WoW's BG's would be if players actually had "weight" to them.. so that annoying gnome rogue couldn't just phase right through me every time I was trying to hamstring his sorry little butt.Imagine a Tauren not only having his model be an actually obstacle.. but physics applied to his movements.. so him running into a puny gnome would actually cause that gnome to get knocked back or down..and vice versa that same Gnome being able to run through a Taurens legs and stab him quickly from behind.
It's probably possible to do right now too, as long as it is localized to an instance, similar to a large level in Unreal Tournament. Of course, they'll never do it because they're afraid of players exploiting this.
As far as setting goes, it's not your standard fluff fantasy setting. It works in books, but as far as a million games go... bleh. Kinda hard to tell now, but if anything, it's a bit dystopic fantasy, dark, messy, and with a pretty through lack of the fluffy happy stuff.
Like, there's one player race, no classes, levels in far more of a general idea of power use...One thing I do like with fantasy though.... it makes setting up a workable, playable world easier. If physics are a constant hindrance to something, I can bend it a bit, and still keep perfect internal consistency.
And besides, if I do ever get around to the modern MMO... it won't have a ton of resemblance to what's out now. So it's a bit easier to take small steps.
The inital plan was for a modern MMO, but my hardware won't support it. (As a rule, modern games have far more calculations, updates, so on.) Not to mention the extra time with the mass variety of weapons, and everything else. It's easier to hammer out swords, and use textures with displacement maps to differentiate them a lot, then do everything for the gun system I had. (I.E, 20-30 different parts plus chassis for every style of gun.)
Characters will have collision detection, it's actually already done
I love the idea of characters being able to change the world, and all of the associated trauma with that.
I was toying with using an actual physics engine, but for now, I had to drop it, too much additional calculation and network stress.
The physics engine does seem to be a bit of overkill. Would be nice, but would be hefty and I don't exactly know how much it would help gameplay (excepting catapults, of course! A semi-changeable landscape like CoH would be awesome to behold but certainly not practical)
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
I've always wanted to see an MMOFPS with a style similar to SOE's Infantry CTF, with many classes and in game currency earned from fragging your enemies and winning rounds which can then be used to purchase a broad selection of weapons and equipments. It will be kinda like Battlefield, but with a heavier theme in character building. This is why I'm keeping an eye on the new Call of Duty.
"Three blokes go into a pub. One of them is kind of stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
Thirteenth, sounds a lot like Planetside ?
Yeah, pretty much. I think Huxley is going to deliver just that type of gameplay as well, but that's still a long way ahead.
I'd like to see some MMO's with themes in espionage and politics as well. You're an agent out to retrieve information, rescue hostages etc. On the other hand, you may also be tasked to guard hostages or protect information. Work your way up in an organization, or just start one yourself. Establish your own government, and mark your territories. If you're just out to help yourself, you can also be the middleman. Information broker, hired gun, smuggler, trader. EVE is doing all that, somewhat, but I was thinking more along the line of 007. If not that, then just not so centered around spaceships like EVE. I'd like to be able to get off my ship once in a while, walk in a bar and just talk. And the game can hopefully provide a broader range of functions to support this kind of gameplay. Aside from all the other obvious difficulties, I just can't see this concept working out without permanent death implemented.
"Three blokes go into a pub. One of them is kind of stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
As far as setting goes, it's not your standard fluff fantasy setting.
If you like a bit of grit in with your fantasy, I can't recommend highly enough the novel Heroes Die, by Matthew Woodring Stover. It's a great fantasy setting, and it offers more that's relevant to your idea--can't say more without spoilers.
One thing that's very important is to allow the players to have all their fun inside the game. Not just ye olde tedious guild/clan blah-blah, but full-featured mail and community bulletin boards. A wide range of emotes is a generous sop to role-players. Non-player-created hierarchical organizations (city guard, temple clergy) would also create a lot of energy.
Shoot. Basically, if someone could make a 3D version of Dark Ages, it'd be The Answer for a lot of us.
RIP ChronicNecrosis
Noob mistake -- double post.
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
Kannon wrote:As far as setting goes, it's not your standard fluff fantasy setting.If you like a bit of grit in with your fantasy, I can't recommend highly enough the novel Heroes Die, by Matthew Woodring Stover. It's a great fantasy setting, and it offers more that's relevant to your idea--can't say more without spoilers.
One thing that's very important is to allow the players to have all their fun inside the game. Not just ye olde tedious guild/clan blah-blah, but full-featured mail and community bulletin boards. A wide range of emotes is a generous sop to role-players. Non-player-created hierarchical organizations (city guard, temple clergy) would also create a lot of energy.
Shoot. Basically, if someone could make a 3D version of Dark Ages, it'd be The Answer for a lot of us.
I think that offering different styles of gameplay such as being part of a guild, a priest in a temple that tends a flock, joining different organizations, such as knights templar/hospitalers/various guards or crusaders/templars would make wonderful gameplay that really begins divorcing itself from the standard guild bleh that permeates current gameplay and does not really offer all that much to gameplay.
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
If not that, then just not so centered around spaceships like EVE. I'd like to be able to get off my ship once in a while, walk in a bar and just talk.
Wasn't EVE coming out with an upgrade that let you do exactly that?
Non-player-created hierarchical organizations (city guard, temple clergy) would also create a lot of energy.
I sort of feel like this is only true if there's a human controlling these characters, too. Sure, they can be NPCs, but then a GM should at least slip into their skin with some regularity.
If religious orders took a vow of silence, maybe that'd help compensate for the artificiality of them being bots.
The democratization of the web ... has installed an illusion of a digital first amendment that protects speech no matter how poorly spelled or stupid. - Elysium
Wordsmythe is my hero. - rabbit
XBL: E Munnie
Thirteenth wrote:If not that, then just not so centered around spaceships like EVE. I'd like to be able to get off my ship once in a while, walk in a bar and just talk.Wasn't EVE coming out with an upgrade that let you do exactly that?
H.P. Lovesauce wrote:Non-player-created hierarchical organizations (city guard, temple clergy) would also create a lot of energy.I sort of feel like this is only true if there's a human controlling these characters, too. Sure, they can be NPCs, but then a GM should at least slip into their skin with some regularity.
If religious orders took a vow of silence, maybe that'd help compensate for the artificiality of them being bots.
I think starting the orginaztions with NPCs or partially controlled NPCs, but allowing for some system of PCs being able to assume those roles eventually would be absolutely huge for this mythical 'end-game' content, which truly immerses you into a world. The trick to keeping people online and theoretically playing your game is to offer them responsibility within the game itself as a sort of proto-steward.
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
I'm not going to be [much] of a wet blanket by pointing out your statistical chances of success, but instead address some of your questions on their own merits.
So is it the visual style or the graphics API that concerns you ? If I were you, i.e. one person taking on such a grandiose project (a MMORPG !), I would stick with Ultima Online-type engine (the original one, not the updated one). With this engine you can choose to stick to a map/cell 2D level design with heights which would significantly simplify level editing. You can still implement real 3D models with movement interpolation on top of it later on.
MMORPG netcode has to be closely tied with the code responsible for player's stats and their actions. Both of them have to be able to spill, in parallel, across multiple machines and network connections while maintaining a seamless illusion of one big CPU running one big world with one big impossibly fat pipe.
The complexity of this level of programming makes my brain implode. These machines will utilize a good part of their LAN bandwidth and CPU time just constantly updating each other.
The only idea i can offer is to make it so that each machine is a tiny minizone. Then you don't actually have to handle realtime interaction of characters across multiple machines, only transfer of player data back and forth as they cross the zone borders.
Google "Reiner's Tilesets" for some free 3D meshes and a whole lot of top-down and isometric sprites, with animations. Actually his animated sprites (humans, zombies, etc) are mostly in a weird 5:4 perspective which is more suitable for an overhead Ultima Online-like engine than a classic isometric one.
Then again I think UO chose its visual style because there's less obstruction of players and objects by level architecture, so it could work out nicely.
If there's a subscription fee, you have immediately lost my interest. The only reason I'm paying attention to Hellgate: London is it grabbed my interest while it was still going to be free (and don't even THINK about saying your game is going to be free and then changing your mind!).
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
BF2142 Stats
None of your graphics will matter in the long run. People come for the boobies, but they stay for the sex. If the mechanics of the game are not very good, if there are not two (or more) levels of game play, then the graphics won't really matter other than to draw people in and then have them leave. It sounds like you are at the basic stage where you are getting the how down but I didn't see much in your post about the game itself.
-Bad Mojo
And man that dog looks like he's having a good time, but that monkey is f*cking into it. This isn't his recreation; this is his life and he knows it in a way I will never know anything. --Danjo Olivaw
I love crafting for some masochistic reason. Back in the day I used to be among the top weaponcrafters in DAOC (Midgard/Gawaine server), and I wouldn't be surprised is one or two axes bearing the name Kwaj are still freshly slick with lurikeen blood even if I retired years ago.
The downside was that crafting in DAoC was dull and repetative (if you can grind our a master craftsman on DAoC, WoW or anything else will seem as childs play). The upside was it allowed the social aspect of the game to really shine through: I haggled, recommended, gave fighting advise to youngsters, provided my guild with much appreciated equipment, made good friends and close bonds with fellow crafters and regular customers. and gained a reputation in the community as the go to guy for special orders.
so my wishlist is:
More robust crafting gameplay all around - one that can actually be worthwhile to the crafter in profit and reputation, but also one that is niether too convenient or too dull. Equipment that degrades in a realistic way. Crafted items that are always better than drops. and no goddamn ebay style auction house - that kills the social aspect of it.
I used to think that I have an ideal MMORPG idea in my head. But I've come to realize that all it is, is another type of a simulation I'd like to explore. So let me dump some of the key points in no particular ordering:
- Perma-death. Period. Genetics and lineage could be implemented.
- Genetics could be applied to the skill set. The character can have affinities to skills. If procreation is implemented, genetics should play a role in it (two characters that are very skilled in swordplay should have progeny that is gifted in swordplay).
- No character levels!
- No classes! Everybody can do everything, but their ability to do it well is based upon their training in the skill. An elaborate system of diminishing gains would govern skill learning.
- Persistent characters. You should be a beneficial mind to the character, not the be all and end all of it. Once you log out, your character should have a baseline AI running. In other words it will turn into an NPC. It will attempt to avoid danger. It can also execute scripts to train skills or gather resources. Characters also need sleep to function properly and facilitate skill acquisition.
- The world should have an eco-system. All life should be finite, but replenishable.
- The world should be very large with sparse points of interest. Discovery of those points should be meaningful and relevant.
I guess what I'm hoping to see is the town building simulation at par with Dwarf Fortress. Once a town fulfilling basic needs is up and running, then it can support adventurers going out into the wild to adventure. It can also support military/police as well as attract freeloaders and those who would profit without the appropriate labour.(@)
Shrike, have you ever heard of A Tale in the Desert? Also, would your nick have anything to do with Hyperion?
(@)
I've heard of it, but I'm still talking about a combat based MMO, just one that considers crafting as important as fighting, so that a person can happily enjoy the game in a town/city without having to ever step out into the wilds if he/she wants to play that way.
Too often games add crafting on as a vestigial time sink that adds no real value to the game as a whole. (or worse, makes crafting awesome then craps on a huge playerbase by nerfing it with an expansion pack *shakes fist at Trials of Atlantis*)
My name is taken from the bird that likes to store its kill by impaling it on thorns.
Cheers to this. Also, make crafting something that may or may not rely on others (both PC and NPC for help). Have an apprentice feature, where you can train an NPC to do the menial tasks for you, like make widgets so that you can make bigger widgets. Once that apprentice does so much, he can go into the world and make his own way or become a mid-level crafter/shopkeep.
Make every crafting item necessary and useful and tied to the world in some way. If I'm making bricks for a city, then have that city's bricks decay over time or allow cities to grow, increasing my need to create those low-level items necessary.
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan
Yes and no, I think. At a certain point, make it perma-death like Jedis were supposed to be. For example, you're a warrior with respawn death. Wanna become a knight or noble? Permadeath is the penalty.
Cool idea to diminish the effects of death some. Would definitely need some definitions and guidelines.
Cheers to that. I don't know that they're really necessary. If they are, make them more *ceremonial* than hardwired into how tough a character really is.
Are we talking UO here, or something different?
Permadeath and this would be a little much, I think. You'd have a lot of angry people clamoring for your head if their character died while offline, but I like the persistent character idea. Again, this might be good for those characters that decide to take a different role in society, i.e. your nobles or authority figures.
Yes. Yes. and Yes. and something more than EQII's wood, stone, plant model.
Making separate realms where travel to them is difficult could limit this, but making those realms of sufficient interest and interactive is the idea here.
Well, Cooking Mama didn't help me become a better cook, and Trauma Center certainly didn't help me become a better surgeon. I have the proof of both sitting in my freezer. -- imbiginjapan