What LOTRO Brings to the Table
Everyone has been talking about LOTRO but I wanted to point out some of the things that diffentiate it from other MMO's out there. Here is a list of things that LOTRO will have that I believe will make it the next PVE hit.
1. Quality: With 3 months to go the Quality is Excellent and the game already runs beautifully with tons of content.
2. Graphics: The graphics and style of this MMO are some of the best in the business IMHO while not being crippling to systems and stays true to LOTR. It seems to be a good hybrid between WOW and Vanguard. I believe its closer to the movies than some people and in some cases looks like Alan Lee's material.
3. Unique Pre-Order Subscription Plans: $9.99 a month or $199 for a lifetime membership (thats only 13 months up front)
4. Unique PVP Monster Play: While not the epic PVP or RVR there is the opportunity to play as a monster and gain better items for your main Toon or upgrade to play a nastier monster. Here are a few confirmed monsters you can play as: Warg Stalker, Spider Weaver, Uruk Blackarrow, Orc Reaver, Uruk Warleader... more to come I am sure) BTW.
5. World Size: Initially reports were that LOTRO would be very small but his apparantly is not the case: "The Lord of the Rings Online will have a world that's 30,000 square miles in size, which is humongous. After the first time you travel to a new location, you'll be able to fast-travel to that point, which means you'll automatically ride a mount to that location. If you have more money, you can purchase your own mount and ride anywhere you wish. The mounts thus far include horses and ponies for the tiny hobbits." Apparently only a portion of the map will be available at launch the portion that is Eriador... leaving the rest for many subsequent expansions to open up the world. Personally I like this better than launching with everything on the table and leaving future expansions weak and half-baked.
Additional Areas for possible future expansions:
1. Rhovanion
2. Mordor
3. Rohan
4. Gondor
5. Rhun
6. Lindon?
6. Questing: Questing in this game is the best in the business in my opinion. It is closest to Oblivion in terms of how it is organized. You have a main story quest which has some "layered" instances that changes the world around you after you go through the current portion of the quest you are on. There are also multiple quest lines that act like "epics" that you get from 1st level. There are quests called accomplishments that provide a Trait (unique bonus or skill). There are also thousands of side quests that you can run as well. Only 10-20% of the game will be instanced.
7. Classes and Skills: The class system is unique and varied without being completely strange. There is a very unique skill system that allows for customizable characters using Traits that you gain through accomplishments (quests).
8. "Player jam sessions!":. This has been talked about in the podcast and seems pretty interesting. It seems that Turbine has created a player generated music system for LOTRO. Players may buy instruments - such as flutes, lutes and drums, and play together to create music using the function keys.
9. Built in Voice Communication: This seems to work pretty well. Show me a game for 10bucks a month with built in voice communication. First MMO to include FREE voice communication I think?
The real question about LOTRO is going to be end-game. If everyone breezes through the content in 2 months it may be a problem. I personally don't think the Monster-Play is the answer for end-game and will get old really quick. I would rather they have events and "episodic" 
content like DDO has... without the instances. Turbine has proven with DDO that they will do constant content updates and not save it all for the $50 expansions.
1. Been done before - but nice to see. I wasn't as happy with the content (it felt unpolished to me) but I'm a curmudgeon.
2. Also been done before, but still nice to see. The water effects are really stellar. Some areas are very bland (Dwarf starting area).
3. This is new, and an interesting idea.
4. The monster development was very limited and flat, from when I played in the Beta. Hopefully, they will expand this to have more detail. I would want to play an Orc full time. As you said at the end, not likely to hold people's interest for very long.
5. Fast-travel (horses, birds, whatever) has been around for years and years (at least DAoC, I'm sure before that too).
6. The quest system was good except for the bad QA and vague quests I encountered - that should be fixed by the end of beta. It's not new though, as you pointed out.
7. This is something that might develop in interesting directions. We'll have to see.
8. Been done ... AC or AC2, I think, and I'm sure it was done before that.
9. EVE Online just released theirs to the live server. It's not beta, but since the LOTRO beta is basically live servers for all intents and purposes, we'll have to see which one is better.
There is a good game in there somewhere.
Remember: this conversation is just between you and me ... and the NSA.
MaverickDago wrote:
unfortunately this is all too rare in MMO's... SOE is captain of the "Beta in a Box" release of half done software... EQ, EQ2, SWG, Matrix, Vanguard
I played both of those games and I don't remember either of them having this. I think SWG had something similar to this, but you couldn't actually play 24 notes with your keyboard... it was more like an audio emote type of thing.
My beef with EVE is that it is NOT free and not everyone will have it. I realize its only 9 bucks a year or whatever, but if everyone does not have the option, in a game like EVE, it can give an unfair advantage to some players... in the year 2007 this kind of thing should be free. Unless of course the EVE voice Comm is much better than LOTRO... as you said... we shall see.
The group music thing was definitely in AC2. If you didn't have an instrument you could beatbox, which was pretty damn funny. Sounds like Turbine has enhanced it further though.
WAR: Coda, Archmage, Vortex <Unguilded>
no wonder they killed that game...
jk
no but seriously, sounds pretty cool, I probably baled on that game before I experience that....
ender = marketing plant
I don't think I've ever said this sentence before, but man would I love to hump that butterfly.-- KrazyTaco
One phone call and you're melting like butter over my kettle pop. -- Edwin to Mex
2005 GWJFFL2 Champion
Well, almost all the serious players currently use Teamspeak or Vent, so it's really just an attempt to get the voice traffic (and money) headed to the MMO developer and not some 3rd party.
Remember: this conversation is just between you and me ... and the NSA.
MaverickDago wrote:
Which is why I can not see this working because it is basically free to run TS or Vent so why pay to use voip in EVE. While my VOIP server is not professional grade it is running on some old AMD 1500 in a closet 24/7 basically and can handle the needs of me and my friends and it cost me nothing to do so.
How does 200 divided by 10 equal 13? Or are there other details missing from the math?
"And my son, too, thinks everything is a launchpad, every bug a meal, and every sunny day a reason to take all your clothes off and roll around in the grass." - rabbit
It's $15 a month if you don't preorder or re-up after letting your preorder sub lapse.
WAR: Coda, Archmage, Vortex <Unguilded>
I am so worried about this game. My standards have gotten pretty high since WoW, and I don't want to jump into a Tolkien game and get turned off by the implementation. I'm much rather wait a year until the game has settled, unless someone can convince me otherwise.
We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Built in voice in an MMO was in Planetside first, IIRC.
Being fangoriously devoured by a gelatinous monster.
Plant!
And I'm still not convinced the game offers much of anything other than "RP with Gandalf."
NOTE: This is not a doodle bug.
Spore
That's still better than LARP with Gandalf, Lob.
Sephirotic | I am your future...swallowed up in fire | PSN: Sephirotic
I am not completely convinced either. On paper the game really does look pretty good, and playing the game is a far better experience than many other MMO's... but I am just not convinced that it will be the game for me. It feels like a game for huge LOTR fans or those that are ready to graduate from WOW.
Curious about this comment. I haven't played this much but low end it is pretty similar to WoW in a lot of respects. When you say graduate from WoW do you mean that this game would be a step up or just something a little different in terms of lore and environment?
There are a few things that jump out at me for this game right from the start as being something that would deter me from wanting to play it. Lack of any real PvP implementation is the most blatant one. Playing as a mob is neat and all but in my recollection of the Tolkien books all of the races didn't exactly get along grandly. While they formed alliances to deal with a common threat I don't think it would be lore breaking to see conflict between humans and elves for example.
Lack of any real quest variety. Aside from the intro quest once I started running around in the world I was confronted with the usual "Kill 5 of mob XYZ" style quests and the "fedex" style quests where I am running back and forth between different NPCs to get the full story of whatever quest I am working towards. I know there is always the possibility that the "end game" could offer some amazing new dynamic... Unfortunately I have played too many of these games and don't feel I should have to experience a boring and repetative newbie experience to make it to the point when the game becomes fun.
Goofy character models. I tried making several characters and whatever controls their facial expressions makes them look absolutely retarded. One elf I made looked like Mr. Ed as she kept smiling/grimacing/something I couldn't place showing off her monstrous horse teeth. I know this is minor but I am picky about what my character looks like as well.
*shrug*
That works up to about 10, maybe 20 people - after that you need something that's hosted, which costs a good bit of cash. Even minor EVE battles can be 30-50 on a side - I've seen videos with 100 on each side. There's definitely incentive to go after the market.
Remember: this conversation is just between you and me ... and the NSA.
MaverickDago wrote:
With people burning through content
in the Burning Crusade so quickly and with Blizzards 2 year development cycle for their expansions, it seems like LOTRO could be a good alternative for those waiting, giving them something different and in some ways (at least in my opinion) a story that people may actually care about... I do NOT play WOW for its story, but thats just me.
If Turbine can expand their content quickly they may actually show Blizzard a thing or two about the proper way to do expansions. The thing that Blizzard will always have over LOTRO is the PVP as you mentioned, which has been vastly improved with the BC expansion, and the ability to play as the Horde. My dream was shattered when they decided to follow the LOTR movies as the timeline instead of using the setting of Middle Earth and allowed people the freedom to play good or evil. I loved the setting that was used in the PnP MERP game that I used to play in the 80's... but alas that dream is dead.
With Blizzard talking about player housing coming eventually, LOTRO and every other game on the market will be chasing this 800 pound gorilla for a long long time. I do wish Blizzard would release a hi-resolution, hi-polygon version to give their graphics an overhaul... I think they really need this within the next few years to stay in the position they are.
The problem I find with voice coming from the game is that when (not if) the game crashes your voice crashes as well so you don't know whats going on. This would be a big problem in large fleet battles (200+ vs 200+) in EVE where node crashes are quite common, and actually are considered as a tactic by some. It might not be so bad in instanced games, I don't know.
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing noise they make as they fly by." -- Douglas Adams
Another issue with integrated voice chat is while minor it is a bit of a performance hit. I typically run vent on another PC or my laptop when gaming because it allows me to see who is talking/being a retard as well as remove any potential performance hit from my gaming box. I also hate having my game sounds coming through a headset. Though a lot of the time I will just leave Vent on the PC's speakers and respond via typing. There is always at least one retard who has no clue how to set up their mic that deafens everyone... And of course the occasional uber nerd listening to death metal at 10000 decibels that has to shout out something during the middle of every boss encounter. I'd like to be able to retain at least a little of my hearing up into my 40s : P
I assume you mean release them more quickly? I may not be a big fan of WoW these days but everyone I know who is into it loves TBC. From everything I have seen/heard it was an extremely smooth launch as well. Not really sure i'd prefer quantity over quality. *shrug*
LOTRO may be a great game on the PvE side of things but after too many MMOs I have to have something to sidetrack me from the boredom of the grind. As this game seems to be yet another EQ/WoW style game I don't think it will be able to deliver that. Adding in a PvP element is usually enough to produce some well needed randomness. I can enjoy playing VG and it's basically pretty similar to WoW with a longer levelling curve and a few classes I like more. The thing that keeps it interesting is playing on the FFA PvP server.
Actually, the two year cycle for BC was mainly due to continued development of content that was originally supposed to be ingame @ launch, which really means everything up to Naxxramas, or so saith Blizzard. All in all, having experienced FFXI Expansions, which are on a 12-18 month cycle, I'd be fine with that. Blizzard reportedly is shooting for that number, and if they can deliver more expansions on a level of quality equal to BC, then I'm all in, even on an 18 month cycle.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote:
Obviously quality is very important and Blizzard has shown they can do quality. But I am sorry, 2 years for BC is rediculous. There isn't THAT much content in the BC to justify the time and with Blizzards leveling curve being so quick it was very important that they get the content out quickly, especially given how much freaking money Blizzard has to burn. Even though it was done well, it was a kick in the nuts to those of us who had been waiting for so long. Even though Sony has done some pretty crappy things they have done some pretty quality expansions for EQ and EQ2 as of late and with a 6 month dev cycle you can't tell me that Echoes of Faydwer wasn't pretty spectacular in content and quality.
Just because WOW is the best selling MMO doesn't mean they don't have a lot to improve...
I couldn't agree more... the Monster play will be interesting to see if it can accomplish this. I do like the FFA server in Vanguard, it really adds that extra level of tension that tells me I am still alive and haven't fallen asleep at my keyboard.
There's also a major disconnect between different teams there. The items are whacked, and they're not testing very well.
I think the good developers all went to do Hellgate, and they're struggling along with the second- and third-stringers now.
And that's something Blizzard is very cognitive of. As to Burning Crusade taking two years, a large portion of that was because it was the same team developing your periodic content patches that developed all the content for BC. Blizzard only has one team of developers, and there's only 24 hours in a day. Working on BC slips content patches; working on content patches obviously slips the expansion.
On the content, or in your eyes, lack thereof, don't forget that there's still at least two more instances currently in development, too. Not to mention that Uldum is still very hush-hush, and something I see coming out sometime beyond The Black Temple, perhaps as the Burning Crusade's DM, or ZG. Same goes for that troll instance in The Ghostlands.
Monster play really depends on how they do it. EQ did this for a little while, and as long as LoTRO goes that route, giving players control of actual monsters in the game, then it'll rock. Griefer's paradise inc, but it would be, IMO, the best way to integrate PvP into this style of game.
However, if they go the current route where it's EQ style Monster Missions, then I'd say you can chalk it up as a monumental failure, or at the least, I will be.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote:
I completely agree with the obvious limbo that still exists with some of blizzards testing. Before I got the expansion I promised myself that if the same mistakes were being made I would cancel and enjoy my summer. Maybe I'll recheck with them when it starts getting ugly outside again but by that time some other games are going to be much closer to release.
I have to disagree with them not having any good devs at all. I can confirm that the new PvE raid bosses are of the same high standard. Whoever is working with tigole if anyone is still making some great boss fights. I think that's my problem, when I look at the raid boss quality then compare it to the fact they cant even design items you have to wonder what the hell is going on.
The points in this thread make LOTR sound very appealing and ill give it a look between exams. Problem is I'm already looking past this one towards something like conan or warhammer so I'm not sure if LOTR would be more then a holdover. If the story and look is spot on tho its almost worth a 2-3 month spin if you liked the books. This game could really hit that niche market hard at the very least if they just feed the LOTR lore and feel.
WoW Item design is a problem inherent to the system they use, where items have a rarity, and a level. Rarity doesn't impact level, but level impacts the quality of the item. From this, you run into the fundamental issue that everyone is griping about: Blues are better than purples.
So, since it appears that the iLevel cap for gear in the game is 115, what's the proper way to address this? Nerf the superior gear? Buff the inferior items? I'm given to buffing the inferior items, myself. Hopefully Blizzard will see it in that manner also.
wordsmythe wrote:
Podunk on Jessica Alba wrote:
I never played the EQ monster missions stuff so I don't know how it actually worked.. but I have been playing the LOTRO Monster play and so far it is very interesting. The monsters are basically like a different character that, at this point anyway, are restricted to the Ettenmoors zone but it is full PVP. All monsters are level 50 (kinda like in Guild wars where when you go straight to PVP you are level 20). There are missions in this zone for both monsters players and regular humanoids alike.
The issues in beta anyway, are that you have to be a level 50 player to enter the zone so there was a big lack of "humanoids" to attack. What became pretty apparent was that the "humanoid" players were much more powerful than the monster players and it forced you to really team up. There was a hobbit going through the zone wiping out monster players left and right by himself. I am sure this is a matter of balance, but it could be cool to see 100's of MPs in combat against 100's of "humanoid" players. There are capturable towers and such but it is difficult to see what will happen once everyone gets in game.
I don't have any problem with monsters being weaker than players; the good guys are supposed to be the heroes. It strikes me that one of the primary goals of monster play is to benefit the human players. It's supposed to be fun for everyone, but like playing the NPCs in D&D, way back when, the heroes ARE supposed to win.
So I don't think it should be particularly close to parity, but the monsters should have a reasonable chance if they're clever and sufficiently evil-minded. That's, unfortunately, one of the tough things about MMOs... it's hard to be genuinely creative in your tactics.
With open beta starting up, I thought I would share some photos from the last hours of closed beta.
These feature raid based PvP versus the developers (after a night of fighting drakes, giants and trolls).
Sorry LG, took it out, was just my toon on a horse.
Posting on the boards is easy. The trick is to kick someone's ass the first day, or become someone's bitch. Chiggie Von Richthofen on how to transition from lurker to poster.
The spider fight looks a lot like WoW. Five hunters and a healer
Thread is unreabable now BF, resize or link that huge picture?