Questions about HDTVs
Our TV is going out on us (screen turns purple at odd times) so we're being forced to buy a new one. I'm looking at HDTVs, but I'm not seeing any big advantages. Specifically, will it improve my Xbox gaming, public television shows, or DVDs.
Is there a clear advantage to hooking up the Xbox to an HDTV, over a regular TV with video component hookup (the three RCA-type hook-up, not S-Video.) I mean an "HDTV Ready TV" (also called HDTV monitor) and not one with a built in tuner, as those are even more expensive. I'm assuming the HDTV monitor is all that's needed for the xbox to send a digital signal to the TV.
I've read up a little on the HDTVs, but they never talk about game consoles. They talk about you needing a tuner to receive the digital signals that take advantage of the high definition, but even that leaves me with questions. If I got a HDTV with a built in tuner, but don't have cable, will the programs (like CSI) that transmit in HD work on it? Doesn't seem like public TV would be able to do digital. Then what about DVDs? Do you have to have a DVD player with progessive scan to take advantage of an HDTV, or do regular DVDs already loook improved on an HDTV monitor (no tuner.)
See, I'm confused. 
If anyone could shed some light on these issues, I'd be very appreciative. It's such a pricey invenstment.
There is a great message board for this stuff. I will find the site for you...
http://www.avsforum.com
http://www.hometheaterforum.com
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/categories.php?Cat=
Xbox Live: Kooter06
HD built in means you won''t need a tuner to take advantage of the HD programming.
HD ready means that if in the future you want to enjoy HD programming, you cna buy a tuner for the tv and be good to go.
I don''t know a whole lot about gaming on them but I do know you can take advantage of the higher res that some Xbox games offer and that makes a pretty big difference.
I would say if you''ve got to go shell the money out anyway, it would be a good investment to get a tv that''s at least HD ready.
Edit - I would second using those links Flux gave ya to research a bit before buying. I spend a lot of time on the Hometheatreforum.com site and have recieved some fantastic advice over the years. Lots of good information to be had at all those sites though.
"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
There is an ok artilce over at cNet the summerizes a lot of the terminolgy and things you should know when shopping for an HDTV http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108580-3.html?tag=cnetfd.ldgif
-Griffon
"White is the new black"
There are several different signal types that TV''s can handle.
A quick primer:
480i: a standard TV signal the TV draws odd lines on one pass and even lines on the next pass meaning your true frame rate is only half of whatever it claims to be, ratio is 4 x 3
480p:a progressive scan image, the same number of lines of resolution as 480i, but the TV draws the whole image every pass giving you your full frame rate, looks much cleaner, ratio is 4 x 3
720p: more lines of resolution than 480 and progressive ratio is 16x9
1080i: the true high definition spec, interlaced image, but lots of lines of resolution, looks unbelievably crisp and lifelike, ratio is 16 x 9
Aspect Ratio:
If I were buying a new TV I would buy a wide screen 16 x 9 set. Some HDTV''s are the old square shape, but the HDTV spec calls for an aspect ratio of 16 x 9. Also, if you watch DVD''s most movies won''t have black bars on 16 x 9 TV''s. Some will still have small black bars, it just depends on the aspect ratio of the movie.
Game consoles on HDTV''s:
They will look better if you hook the console up using component inputs and enable progressive scan.
Xboxes support 480i, 480, and 720p
Gamecubes support 480i, and 480p
PS2s support 480i, 480p, and possibly 720p (not sure about 720p)
Tuners: HDTV''s should accept any type of signal out of the box, tuners are only needed to watch broadcast television, they are not needed to get the most out of consoles or DVD players.
Broadcast signals: In order to receive HDTV broadcast signals, you will have to ask your cable or satellite provider what they offer. I know that DirecTV offers HBO HD, Showtime HD, ESPN HD, HD Net, and HD Net Movies. Network signals from ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox (possibly) can be received with and off the air antenna in most major markets. An HDTV tuner will still be required for off the air reception of HDTV signals.
DVD players: To truly get the most out of your TV, you would want a progressive scan DVD player. The image is much crisper than an interlaced image.
DVD''s: Any and all DVD''s that you currently own will work on and HDTV and will work on a progressive scan player.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
Well since you offered. On a 16x9 tv you end up with black bars on the side when watching regular progamming right? And what about games? Would you have black bars on the sides for those?
"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
The bars are on the top and the bottom, not the sides. Most TVs of this caliber have several settings to change the shape of the picture and you would never be permanently stuck with black bars while watching TV or playing games, so don''t worry about that
Xbox Live: Kooter06
A 16 x 9 tv can stretch a 4 x 3 image if you want it to.
Some 16 x 9 TV''s are actually really good at stretching an 4 x 3 image so the image doesn''t actually look stretched.
Most TV''s offer various ways to make a 4 x 3 image fit the screen.
They can zoom in on the image cutting part of it off, but making it fit the screen, do a generic stretch, stretch only the sides of an image leaving the middle of the image with it''s original ratio, and various other things.
The best thing to do would be to go to a store and look at the way the TV''s handle a 4 x 3 image.
I have to head out for lunch, but a big thanks for the quick responses, so far. I''ll check out all the links provided. I have read the CNet article, but it''s still not very clear on a few things. Like they talk about connecting consoles to a TV through the video component, but not HDTV specifically. Does an HDTV have specific HD ports, or do they utilize the three video component jacks, as well.
Thanks again.
While I know the widescreen monitors get more ""Ooohs"" and ""Aaaahs"", I''d go with a plain ol'' 4:3 aspect ratio HDTV for my own purposes. I spend a lot more time watching TV and playing non-widescreen games than I do watching widescreen material. A widescreen set would be a waste of screen real estate for those activities, and could potentially lead to burn-in of the black stripes on each side (depending on the TV). Widescreen sets are generally more expensive, also. Just my opinion, of course.
I went with a LCD home theatre projector, but I''d advise against that route (setup''s a bee-yotch).
It uses the three component (NOT composite) video terminals. They''re used in modern non-HDTV sets as well. One thing to note is that the cables for this setup are freakin'' expensive ($30+), and they generally aren''t included with either your DVD player, console or TV. Want to hook up a DVD player, HDTV cable box and multiple consoles? There''s probably no more than 2 HDTV hookups on your set, so you''re likely to need a video switcher. Kiss a minimum of $99 goodbye. For budget-watchers like me, these extra expenses come as an unexpected ""ouch"".
That is a good idea for now, but what about 2007 or whatever when the standard signal is HD at a 16x9 ratio? I would assume if you were buying a HD set now you would want it to still be working good in 3-5 years. Not to mention I am sure you can change the aspect ratio the console puts out to 16x9 on a ps2 or xbox.
Oh one other thing, most good HD sets will have an upscan converter built in. All a progressive player does is do the same upscan conversion from 480i to 480p. So if you will see a difference or not depends on the quality of the converter in your TV vs. your Player. But basically if you were short on cash I would just buy a good tv and upgrade your DVD player later when you could afford it.
PSN ID: Stric9
Not true, some of them also do 3:2 pulldown. Cheaper ones don''t. Just a niggle, but an important niggle.
Rock Band Name Generator!... too funny to merely be coincidence.
"Truly, this mishap has set back the swamp sciences several years." - H.P. Lovesauce, lamenting a tragedy.
Yeah the de-interlacing/reverse pull down process is a bit more efficient in the player than in the set. But the point I am trying to make is, if you are getting a good set and then just bye a really cheap progressive player you are probably better off getting the good set and saving your money and getting a good progressive player later.
PSN ID: Stric9
I''m pretty sure the Xbox does the true 1080. Of course, the game has to support it.
Yes, you can get HD signals over-air, as long as the show is broadcast in it. Yes, you would need an HD tuner to be able to receive any HD signals, either over-air or cable.
If you end up getting it at Best Buy, make sure you get the Reward Zone card. It cost $10 but you get $5 certificates for every 125 you spend. So if you''re spending $1,000 on a HDTV, it''s like getting $70 off.
I just got HDTV hooked up a half hour ago. Unfortunately, there''s only a few channels being offered right now locally.
"Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba!" - dejanzie
"If ads put your sanity to the test
come on down to Rat Boy's nest!
light up a stogie, and soon you'll see
how rock can be commercial-free!
'I'd hit it!'" - HP Lovesauce
Luckily my local cable company has decent HD stuff. Still no ESPN-HD yet, but I''m biding my time.
Rock Band Name Generator!... too funny to merely be coincidence.
"Truly, this mishap has set back the swamp sciences several years." - H.P. Lovesauce, lamenting a tragedy.
I have ESPN-HD
Too bad there''s no football on it, though.
"Men like sex, thus boobies! Oogaba!" - dejanzie
"If ads put your sanity to the test
come on down to Rat Boy's nest!
light up a stogie, and soon you'll see
how rock can be commercial-free!
'I'd hit it!'" - HP Lovesauce
I thought so too. I remember when Halo first came out and there was some sight showing a side by side comparison between Halo hooked up on a normal tv and Halo on a HDTV running what I thought was 1080. I remember a pretty signifigant difference. Considering Halo looks damn good anyway, thats saying something.
"Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
FYI
720p is a better picture than 1080i
You will probably see 1080i dropped fairly soon and everyone standardize on 720p.
Most 1080i was around because of the ease of upscanning a 480i picture to it.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
http://wumusicgroup.com/
Where did you see this, GG? I''ve been under the impression that 1080i was going to be the dominant resolution for quite some time. Even though, yeah, 720p is the better resolution. Its interlaced equivalent would be...whips out calculator... 1440i. Currently there''s not many tv''s whose native resolution is 720p. Most are 1080i. The Samsung DLP series is 720p native, and a couple others (maybe a panasonic?). The 1080i native tv''s just downconvert the 720p to 1080i anyway, so it doesn''t really matter much.
I generated a virtual world in the toilet bowl this morning.
-- Podunk on the PS3's mystical, magical abilities
You guys better settle this. I look to you for my consumer information. I trust you more than I trust the blue shirt trying to convince me I need a 50"" television for a 12x14 room.
"If you're not a stinky-stink, you're not addicted to anything!" - Reaper
My head is spinning... I''ve been following the links Flux provided (good ones too, thanks man) when I have time. I got lost, though, and ended up following links to and reading about modded Xboxes
(anyone done this to their Xbox?)
Speaking of consumer information and advice, can you guys give opinions on whether to go rear projection, or flat screen? Also, any advice on which brands to stay away from? The CNet site reviews sets, but they only give Sony sets high marks. When I see a Samsung set, for example, should I just pass on it, even though it fits what I might be looking for?
If someone has an HDTV (ballbark $1,000 to $1,500 and >= 32"") that they want to rave about, do tell! I''m with Sway, I don''t trust the Bestbuy guy and looking at the TVs in a store is not a good judge of a set.
Appreciate all the replies!
Most LCD TV''s on the horizon (which in 5 years will be the dominate format followed by DLP/Rear Projection) are 720p
720p is the standard resolution they are pushing in Hollywood and for the Cable/TV Networks to begin using as a standard format. Will they all eventually succumb? not sure anything is possible..
But in this day and age I would do the following.
1. Not buy a Plasma of any type. Image quality is CRAP! CRAP!
2. Buy an HDTV monitor that had a DVI-HD connector and supported 720p. Be it rear projection, DLP, CRT or even a Projector.
Thats it.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
http://wumusicgroup.com/
I''ll respond in order:
Sonys, IMO are overpriced and not that great. They get the job done, sure... but don''t skip Samsungs, Toshibas, or Hitachis. All very good TV''s for a much lower price. I avoid Panasonic anything like the Plague.
I have a Toshiba 50"" widescreen rear projection that I love, and got it last summer for $1599 at Costco. Looks glorious with my xbox HD kit, dvd''s look good too. Haven''t hooked up HDTV to it yet sadly. I read AVS Forum like a mofo before I bought my TV, I think it paid off. Make sure it has plenty of inputs (including DVI like GG said), at least a Component HD input or two (for dvd player, xbox).
I generated a virtual world in the toilet bowl this morning.
-- Podunk on the PS3's mystical, magical abilities
For my living room upstairs I got the 30"" 16X9 Samsung HD CRT and for $799 its an awesome screen.. Comcast HD and Xbox look very nice. I found the image just slightly less crisp than the Sony 34"" 16X9 CRT but that was close to $2 Grand and would not fit in the Media Center.
Of course 2 months after I get my set Sony comes out with a 30"" 16x9 CRT that I would have probably gone with.
Downstairs I have the Sanyo PLV-Z2 Projector which at just under $2 Grand is a true 720P LCD projector.. its arguably the best projector for the money..
check it out at www.projectorcentral.com
Thrown on my 96"" 16:9 Screen its basically as good as going to the movies..Plus I have an old fashioned popcorn machine. Xbox is so so...still images look fine..but fast moving images get too blurry.. you tend to get a headache if you play to long.
The only downside is I still dont have blackout curtains..so until its dark outside I can''t watch anything downstairs... I''m just so lazy and except for the weekends am never home before dark...but during the summer it would be nice to have them.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
http://wumusicgroup.com/
Sony is decent but pricey. Samsung and Toshiba are both great brands in the HD market. I have a buddy who just picked up a 51"" Toshiba last week for a little over a grand. It looks awesome and he is loving it.
Not true. Of course to get good quality from a plasma you have to buy either a Runco or a Pioneer Elite for 10k. By then you are better off buying a good DLP projector.
As for brands, Pioneer Elite, Mitsubishi, and Runco are the only way to go for high end rear projection sets. Of course those run above your budget.
For something within your budget I would look at Mitsubishi and Toshiba.
For games, I recommend CRT''s over projection screens. Less risk of burn-in, and to me (just my personal opinion) the colors and picture are sharper and more vivid on a CRT than a projection tv.
However, projection screens really have improved a lot in the last decade.
I currently have a 30"" widescreen (16x9) Samsung HDTV. I love it... when it works.
First tip: never buy from Ultimate Moronics. EVER. NEVER-EVER. They have a wonderful sales staff, and their delivery and installation was impeccable (granted, I could have installed it myself, but they insisted). But their service support is easily the worst I''ve ever dealt with.
It''s pretty obvious the TV is a lemon; it''s burned through 2 PCB''s already, but yet the store won''t just do an exchange for a refurbished model. Bah; this last time it died the exact same way again, and I''ve had to wait a month and a half for any service (they are allegedly getting the replacement board on Friday and we''ve scheduled a service appointment on Tuesday).
hmm..ok lets put it this way..
Not taking size into account or a specific installation requirement. If you had equal money what you you buy for that money? Plasma? LCD? CRT? Rear? DLP? chances are Plasma is at the bottom of that list.
Lets face it..Plasma has a 3 year window AT BEST. Once LCD''s can be made at similar sizes and around the same $$ Plasma is gone..history.
Take a 40"" LCD and throw a 1280X768 PC screen through DVI and put it next to even a top of the line 42""-50"" Plasma at 1280X768 through DVI and you''ll see what I mean.. its not even close. Look at the text and colors. With DVD''s given their lower resolution the flaws in Plasma Technology get masked.. but it wont always be like that.
Soon you''ll be seeing HD DVD players with Windows Media 9 technology that can play back 1280X768 resolution.
Aint nothing new about the world order..it's been playing since the day they put George Washington on a quarter
Down in the Park with a friend called Five.
http://wumusicgroup.com/
From my previous HDTV research on Amazon and e-pinions, I''d stay away from Samsung. The price is right, but the build quality seems to be problematic. While a lot of customers are very, very pleased with their sets, there are a disproportionally high percentage of customers whose sets quickly start exhibiting problems.
I use a Sanyo PLC-SW15 (purchased refurbished a couple of years ago). Sanyo does indeed put out some of the best projectors / dollar!
Even the experts generally admit that an old-fashioned CRT still has better brightness and color fidelity than projection, plasmas, or even LCDs. Have you noticed that, when you look at sets in a store, all the LCDs are showing computer-generated animation (Bug''s Life, Shrek, etc.)? That''s because computer-generated animation looks amazing on those sets, while conventional video often looks quite a bit worse. They also show the worst-quality video and have the worst lighting on the sets on which they make the lowest profit margin, hoping that you''ll be disappointed and go to more expensive models. Grrrrr....
Unfortunately, when I bought mine, this wasn''t all that well-known yet.