Sam&Max: Downhill from here?

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DreadAle's picture
Location: The Northern Wastes

... I really liked the first episode. Culture Shock was everything I wanted it to be and more than I had dared hope.

Episode two arrived and it wasn't as long. It wasn't just that it wasn't as long; it didn't seem as thorough as the first episode, with it's recycling of the old scenery and less dynamic story. I might have played it wrong - it isn't a very hard game and I'll definitely revisit it to get the last juicy tidbits.

I played episode 3 a few days ago and it was over one and a half hours after I started.

So, how can this decline in overall quality I have encountered be accounted for?
Am I alone in this impression?
How much, if anything, can be said about episodic content with this in mind?

Personally, I think it's because it's a completely new way of making a game. They've made more episodes than anyone else, sure, but is that enough? I've come to terms with the fact that most of the games I play have taken people years to build, but I can't imagine how they're going to keep up the tempo with only a month between episodes. One must assume a good deal of work is put in even before the first episode launches, but even so, the consequences of what would have been a minor setback for a non-episodic game would have dreadful consequences, when the schedule is that tight.

What I'm seeing bears frightening resemblance to a more modern practice within anime, which is basically to make an awesome first episode and let the series fall to pieces once the hooks are in, but I sincerely doubt this is what is happening.

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KrazyTaco[FO]'s picture
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I enjoyed episode 4 more than episode 3. The way I look at it, is that it's funny enough that I'm getting my money's worth. Sam and Max is really the only thing I use Gametap for, but it's still worth the 9.99 a month.

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Sephirotic's picture
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I loved episode 1. Episode 2 seemed a little forced, but 3 brought back the enjoyment I had in 1. I think now that I am used to how the games play, I go through them a bit quicker. I look forward to playing episode 4 next week.

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Demiurge's picture
Location: Seattle

I'm gonna get defensive if I post more in this thread. Suffice to say: I love the games.

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DreadAle's picture
Location: The Northern Wastes

I may have been a bit unclear in my previous post. I do think that every episode is good entertainment and I'd reccomend them to many ofmy friends. Along with Indigo Prophecy, I think the Sam & Max episode is the best thing to happen for adventure games in a long time.
I made this thread not because I felt decieved in any way, but because episodic content is where much of the innovation in modern game development is at and TellTale Games are undoubtedly the most successful pioneers in this field - I believe a lot can be deduced from looking at Sam & Max, so why not start a debate?

From A Certain Point of View
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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

DreadAle wrote:
Along with Indigo Prophecy, I think the Sam & Max episode is the best thing to happen for adventure games in a long time.

I'd agree on Indigo Prophecy except for the last 20% of it where it just gets absurd. Sam & Max are definitely a great step forward and I hope they can continue into a second season. I also think that Telltale is setting a good example for the episodic model if they can keep the release schedule up.

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KrazyTaco[FO]'s picture
Location: Hawaii

All I know is that if/when they cancel Sam and Max I will cancel my subscription to GameTap.

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"Krazy, I love the fact that you exist." -Vector
"Oh, KrazyTaco, you fulfill all my wishes." -pneuman
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Poppinfresh's picture
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

I just finished Episode 3 last night. While I admit that it seemed shorter, easier, and derivative, it was still a lot of fun. In honesty, I think you could say the same thing about older adventure games. The difference is that I think it's more noticeable when you split up the game in chapters that there are some similar patterns to some puzzles. Stuck? Find a way to make pseudo-money, then head to Bosco's and see what weird thing he's selling! I actually like that there are patterns. It moves it beyond the "Stuck? Click on everything with everything" model.

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LobsterMobster wrote:

Wow, my mom is hot.

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Vrikk's picture
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About Indigo Prophecy.. there was no ending. It's not that the last twenty percent was horrible (is "horrible" even the right word to describe that insanity-written finish?), it's just that the rest of the game was so good that the build up couldn't have possibly been done correctly to do the rest of the game any justice. Instead the creator tried to pull a major shock value moment on us, but failed to estimated the correct amount of "WHOA I DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING" that gamers are able to handle in that sort of game. As a result the game exploded in our faces to the extent that we had no choice but scream and whine about how our minds were hurting from not being able to understand what just unfolded. Why they chose to go for the completely bizarre route and delve into the cheesy B sci-fi novel storylines I have no idea, but some sort of transition between the two parts of the game could have gone a long way towards helping the overall feedback the game got. I loved the entire game (even the ending) but it had some flaws that need to be ironed out before a sequel is ever made.

On the topic of Sam and Max, I don't think that the quality of the games are going down any. I will admit that I had the most fun in the first episode (besides the British Bosco in the second), but after completing the third episode last night I realized that the entertainment isn't on the recession because of anything TellTale has done. Instead, I think the first episode is considered the best one of the current four because it's the first Sam and Max game gamers have played in many years. Think about it: We all knew for quite some time that the series was being revived. We knew it was going to be in episodic format, we knew it would be on Gametap, et cetra. All the fine gritty details were known, and what else could we do but squeal with delight knowing that one of our favorite point-and-click adventures was finally going to get the "series" status that it should have had long ago? Once the first episode had been released though we all had our lust for an insane rabbit filled so there was no more burning desire. Sure, we wanted to play more because the first one was fun.. but it wasn't to the same magnitude. I would assume that if any of the other episodes had been released first then it would be considered the best instead of the current Episode One.

Tip top.

Yet even then we ran like the wind,
whilst our laughter echoed under cerulean skies...

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Poppinfresh's picture
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Poppinfresh wrote:
I just finished Episode 3 last night.

Vrikk wrote:
after completing the third episode last night

Are you using your PSI level to control my actions?

Where's my tinfoil hat?

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LobsterMobster wrote:

Wow, my mom is hot.

PSI Level Ω
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Vrikk's picture
Location: Mauling you at the doorstep.

I have to use my psychic gift somehow when evil doers aren't doing evil, Poppin.

Yet even then we ran like the wind,
whilst our laughter echoed under cerulean skies...

Granola and Grenades
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Druidpeak's picture
Location: Big Sky Country

FYI. Downloading Ep 4 right now. Opinions to follow?

This post sponsored by cheese.

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DreadAle's picture
Location: The Northern Wastes

Vrikk wrote:
About Indigo Prophecy...

I couldn't agree more. We haven't got too much good writing in gaming, all I can think of off the top of my head is the Thief series, which makes it such a pity that they went bonkers with Indigo Prophecys ending. I want someone, just anyone, to make another game with that engine - it's a magnificant control scheme they thought up and I could really see myself getting lost in many a game, when faced with such engaging interaction.

Vrikk wrote:

On the topic of Sam and Max..

Poppinfresh wrote:
I just finished Episode 3 last night...

I think Vrikk may have a good insight and I definetly think that episode one was that much better because I had never seen anything like it, since I never played the original (I wasn't very informed back then). I still think episode two and three aren't as good as the first one, they're worth my time and maybe even more money than I've payed, but it's as if the first episode has been saturated with humor from months and months of development, which makes it that much better.

I do think the recurrent events, going to bosco's, watching TV, Sybils changing carrer, is some of the best stuff in there and I have to agree that British Bosco steals the show in episode two.

Granola and Grenades
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Druidpeak's picture
Location: Big Sky Country

My simple Sam and Max views. It's like watching Seinfeld. Same characters, alot of the same locales, throw in some variations for some of the characters, and add a funny plot to the story for each episode. They've taken the model for sitcoms and transferred it to a game. So far so good for me. I've liked each episode almost equally, although each has its faults. They're tasty and bitesized.

I'll play through ep 4 and see if I have any differing opinions on whether it's going down or not.

This post sponsored by cheese.

Anyone feel a breeze?
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sheared's picture
Location: Purple Mountains

I plan on buying the entire game once they finish the package, and I can get it all at once. As much as I like Sam and Max and want to see it succeed, I do not like episodic gaming. I'll support them in their second round of selling the game.

I Got Nothing
NemesisZero's picture
Location: The frozen heart of Germany

I preferred ep 2 to ep 1 (Cooking without Looking sealed the deal for me). Haven't bought the next episodes yet because the Wii got in the way. I'm going to wait this out, but the pay-by-episode model doesn't seem to allow for the leeway we grant a TV series. Even the much-adored Firefly had bad episodes, but nobody really cared because hey, they came free with the good stuff.

And if I haven't seen further, it's because those bloody giants blocked my sight.

From A Certain Point of View
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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Firefly had bad episodes?!

"We're taught from a young age how to dodge rock hard objects moving at incredible rates of speed while simultaneously beating folks half to death with sticks. We do this for fun." -kung fu grip
http://blog.digital-lifeline.ca

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Vrikk's picture
Location: Mauling you at the doorstep.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:
Firefly had bad episodes?!

No. They had episodes that put out 100 percent while the others did 110.

Yet even then we ran like the wind,
whilst our laughter echoed under cerulean skies...

Rising to the Occasion
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Poppinfresh's picture
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Vrikk wrote:
Parallax Abstraction wrote:
Firefly had bad episodes?!

No. They had episodes that put out 100 percent while the others did 110.

I'll go get the tar and feathers.

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LobsterMobster wrote:

Wow, my mom is hot.

Do I Make You Thorny Baby?
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Alien Love Gardener's picture
Location: Effin' Finland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiC-JcqMrPM

Important advice in there. I love Firefly as much as the next person, but can we f*cking get over it already?

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wordsmythe's picture
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Alien Love Gardener wrote:
I love Firefly as much as the next person

Liar.

Edit: The video was kind of fun, though.

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DreadAle's picture
Location: The Northern Wastes

Alien Love Gardener wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiC-JcqMrPM

Important advice in there. I love Firefly as much as the next person, but can we f*cking get over it already?

Watching how just how quickly a throwaway mention of firefly not being perpect has derailed this thread, you have hard time disagreeing with the point of the video.

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Alien13z's picture
Location: Minneapolis

DreadAle wrote:
Alien Love Gardener wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiC-JcqMrPM

Important advice in there. I love Firefly as much as the next person, but can we f*cking get over it already?

Watching how just how quickly a throwaway mention of firefly not being perpect has derailed this thread, you have hard time disagreeing with the point of the video.

That's not unique to Firefly, that's just life on the Gooj side. You could say oogaba, haterade, Iraq, or about 10 other things and get the same effect.

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Poppinfresh's picture
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Inara.

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LobsterMobster wrote:

Wow, my mom is hot.

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wordsmythe's picture
Location: I turn once more to those who/ sneer at this my city, and I give them back the sneer...

Oh it's not derailed, just detoured.

Episodic gaming! Blah blah blah!

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wordsmythe's picture
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Poppinfresh wrote:
Inara.

What? Where?!?

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Poppinfresh's picture
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

wordsmythe wrote:
Poppinfresh wrote:
Inara.

What? Where?!?

Back when Firefly was all the rage, we had many, many threads about it. Invariably they would devolve into discussions of who the hottest character was. Eventually, you'd just see one word posts like that, as people would quickly skip to the inevitable endgame of the thread.

It's much funnier when I explain it. Really.

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LobsterMobster wrote:

Wow, my mom is hot.

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wordsmythe's picture
Location: I turn once more to those who/ sneer at this my city, and I give them back the sneer...

I still want to know where she is, and why she isn't right here in my cubicle.

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DreadAle's picture
Location: The Northern Wastes

I've put some hours into episode four and I think it's pretty much quelled the fire of disillusion which episode three had ignited in and, in turn, promted me to make this very thread. It's good - certainly better than episode three, with my eyes. I'll probably have a little more to say when I'm actually done with it.

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Poppinfresh's picture
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

I'd guess that I'm halfway done with episode 4, and thus far I'd say it's my favorite episode yet. If I can stay awake, I'm hoping to finish it tonight.

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LobsterMobster wrote:

Wow, my mom is hot.

Europeon
Spunior's picture

Telltale's looking for some feedback, so you might want to head over to this survey.